Author Topic: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance  (Read 5298 times)

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Offline gregwaits

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lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« on: December 02, 2006, 07:48:31 PM »
What are some of the easiest and most logical ways to safely reduce weight on a Honda SOHC/4 to increase performance? Specifically I speak of the CB500K ('73).

Economics are a concern, so I can't be considering alloy wheels, radical aftermarket parts etc.

Thanks!
1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450

kettlesd

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2006, 07:53:58 PM »
Right off the bat you can get rid of the centerstand - large amount of weight there.

kettlesd

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2006, 07:57:41 PM »
But i gotta add that with the high weight of these bikes (by today's standards anyway) simply removing unneeded bits wont greatly enhance your performance.

I read once that the best way to decrease a bikes weight is to lay off the cheeseburgers!!!!!!!!!  :P

Ensuring a good state of tune goes a long way t maximizing performance.

Offline bwaller

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2006, 09:17:20 PM »
Lay off the cheeseburgers, well of course rider weight is one factor, but I disagree that reducing weight won't have an effect on performance. It may not increase top speed, but acceleration will be directly increased by the amount of weight removed.

 I have tackled a 550 with the idea of increasing hp some, but reducing overall weight to around 400lbs. Part of the fun has been trying to shave weight everywhere, without sacrificing reliability. Grams at a time, but also big chunks and here are a few of those.

replacing exhaust - 16 pounds saved (could be even more than this)
electric start motor - 7 lbs  ( I elected to keep the e-start motor and lose the kick start complete - 3lbs)
centre stand - 6 lbs
520 drive sprockets & rear in aluminum - 1.7 lbs
alloy rims - over 1 lb each

I changed to a plastic front fender (with fork brace), double 4.5mm brake discs and it's lighter than the original front end with the single disc brake.
Also switching to a different seat & rear fender took another 6 lbs off.

So it's possible to make changes, just don't do anything that'll make it unsave.

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2006, 10:54:09 PM »
Heres a quick list of things you can do:
1. Ditch the gauges (or do smaller ones)
2. Replace stock seat with fiberglass cafe style
3. Smaller tank (maybe even fiberglass)
4. Remove all unwanted tabs/brackets, and other crap not in use
5. Remove turn signals (or atleast the front)
6. Center stand (thing weighs a ton)
7. Smaller battery (make sure it can handle the load you are gonna put on it)
8. Ditch passenger pegs and the mounts (decent weight savings their)
9. Speed holes (less material on the bike the less it is gonna weigh)
10. Go on a diet
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Offline chung

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2006, 03:40:01 AM »
Sorry if I repeat other posts.
Strip the bike down to the bare engine, frame and wheels. And I do mean "stripped"
Then decide what needs to go back on the bike to make it "useable"
Hold the parts, one at a time in your hand, feel it's presence.
"What a boat anchor" will be some of your first thoughts ::) If a 5 pound bar will do, then Honda used a 15 pound bar.
Exhaust had to be there so bite the bullet and loose the stock Head Pipes. They are not much lighter than the cast iron manifolds on my 413CID Dodge V8!!!
Pick and choose whatever you can from later model bikes to replace the iron on the CB.
I have found that VFRs have many of the same threads and splines as the older CBs. The VRF500 and 750 Interceptors have some pretty nice footpegs and pedals that can be made to fit with little grinding, drilling and minimal or no welding. A 3/8 Alloy plate is the foundation for the DUNSTALL rearsets. Drill a hole and attach the footpeg of your choice. The VF750R has a shifter and brake that pivot on the peg so even the drum brake is an easy FAB.
Gauges are not needed, if you are going too fast, you wreck, OverRev the engine and you walk home. No rocket science there, just seat of the pants feel.
When you have reached all the things like pitching the gauges and Elect Start (the biggest gain w/smaller batt) and replacing iron w/alloy, you can get crafty and shorten all the bolts that stick through past full thread engagement::)
Pounds are easy to loose at first, you will be counting Grams real quick. Doing all the dieting at once will blow your buddies socks off, a little here and there will go w/out notice. Strip the #$%* first :o
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2006, 04:45:59 AM »
Surprised nobody mentioned ditching the chromed fenders (yes I know you should keep the front brace). I may hate mac exhausts but they are tons lighter than a stock system, espically a 4 into 1.

Some states require you keep a speedometer in order for your bike to pass inspection. NY is pretty fanatical about this.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2006, 04:57:28 AM »
was told by a mechanic that specialises in the old CB750, that you can machine a fair bit off the stator rotor ... though i havent tried it, came anyone back/denounce this idea?

peace
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2006, 06:01:53 AM »
HondaMan mentioned something about this (can't find it off the bat...) You can remove some material, but you have to be careful as to where as you will reduce the alternator's efficiency if not done right. It also has benefits as you don't have as much flywheel effect and fewer problems with crankshaft whip. Lesseing these effects will also improve acceleration.

Of course, you would just be doing this for everyday riding, whereas the ones HondaMan was talking about were for racing, so you probably wouldn't be going that far.

Surprised nobody mentioned ditching the chromed fenders (yes I know you should keep the front brace).

I changed to a plastic front fender (with fork brace), double 4.5mm brake discs and it's lighter than the original front end with the single disc brake.

 ::)
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Offline hymodyne

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2006, 06:57:59 AM »
I ditched the centerstand, although I retained the mounting hardware on the frame. replaced front fender with aluminium fork brace and plastic fender,
ground off the mounts for passenger footpegsand stock brake assembly,  removed rear fender and taillight. with a lower and upper fairing I probably added weight however, or maybe broke even  ???

I would imagine if speed and quickness are desired, why not go for items like fresh front and rear wheel bearings? inexpensive and, according to many of the sages here, well in need of replacement on our 30+ year old bikes.
hym
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Offline paulages

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2006, 10:39:58 AM »
i removed my rear passenger brackets on the frame, lost the center stand (my 4-1 allows for easy jacking of the bike), made a really light exhaust silencer, and made a fiberglass seatpan.

i haven't weighed it, but i imagine all of that lost weight was made back up with the HD 16"x4" rear rim and the dual disk on the front. those are some heavy wheels.
paul
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Offline Jay B

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2006, 02:18:35 PM »
Everybody jokes about the diet thing, but a few years ago I worked my tail off and lost 35lbs over a winters time. When I got back on the bike in the spring there was a noticable difference in acceleration, not to mention preload stiffness!
Jay
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2006, 04:04:44 PM »
HondaMan mentioned something about this (can't find it off the bat...) You can remove some material, but you have to be careful as to where as you will reduce the alternator's efficiency if not done right. It also has benefits as you don't have as much flywheel effect and fewer problems with crankshaft whip. Lesseing these effects will also improve acceleration.

Of course, you would just be doing this for everyday riding, whereas the ones HondaMan was talking about were for racing, so you probably wouldn't be going that far.

Surprised nobody mentioned ditching the chromed fenders (yes I know you should keep the front brace).

I changed to a plastic front fender (with fork brace), double 4.5mm brake discs and it's lighter than the original front end with the single disc brake.

 ::)

whoops - totally asleep at the wheel....heheheeee...um..well this isn't akward at all.... Hey, what's that over there (runs away when your back is turned)...

on my 1978 Supersport I have a fiberglass seat, fiberglass tank, and a plastic oil tank from an unknown dirt bike. I also have a kerker, and tonls of useless crap has been dumped off the bike. Compared to my stocker 1978 Supersport this bike is light and nimble. It even wheelies and does burnouts very easy (not that I would try such a thing). The missing stuff can't weigh more than 20 lbs tops but wow what a difference.

Planned mods are smaller speedo, electronic autometer tach, ditching the front fender, and when I get enough scratch together - rearsets, lightweight headlight brackets, and clipons. Might even go with a racing fariing and a set of piaa driving lights instead of a headlight.   
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Offline Jim F

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2006, 09:17:50 PM »
was told by a mechanic that specialises in the old CB750, that you can machine a fair bit off the stator rotor ... though i haven't tried it, came anyone back/denounce this idea?

peace
I trimmed about .250/.300 off of one end of mine but for how much weight. I am not sure. ( should have checked the weight before I put it on the lathe)
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2006, 03:46:10 AM »
i have seen one that was done by said mechanic, and it had some machined off the end, but then had large 45 degree chamfers internal, and external on the same end, it lso had a large 'V' machined into the centre, he had specific spec, (that i cant remember), and apparently made the motor spin up quicker....*shrug*

peace
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funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline mkramer1121

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2006, 04:40:11 AM »
cyclexchange sells lightened altenators....:D

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2006, 04:43:13 AM »
Wouldn't removing material adversely alter the generating capacity?  ???
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2006, 06:13:57 AM »
Wouldn't removing material adversely alter the generating capacity? ???

That's exactly what HondaMan was talking about. I'll have to find that post...
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Offline MadDogMcq

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2006, 08:12:23 AM »
A 500k is what it is. Just buy as faster bike!  :D
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Offline paulages

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2006, 12:54:37 PM »
A 500k is what it is. Just buy as faster bike!  :D

tell that to this guy: http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=16200.0

besides, one could easily say the same for every 750 on here with an 836 kit, etc. as a matter of fact, one could pretty quickly find onesself very far from a SOHC4 riding a hayabusa or whatever with that logic. but i'm sure you're just pulling his leg, right?  ;)
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Offline TomC

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2006, 03:55:20 PM »
Hi Group
     You can make your SOHC4 faster that your Buddy's SOHC4. No problem unless your buddy has all ready done more that you have. But You could go to your local dealer and buy a 600cc sports bike with a warranty that is going to be faster than your hopped SOHC4. Unless you put more than the price of the 600cc sport bike in it.
TomC in Ohio
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Offline bwaller

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2006, 04:05:24 PM »
Sounds way too logical Tom!

Offline shoemanII

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2006, 06:48:57 PM »
i'd repeat the easy/cheap stuff too:  ditch the passenger footpeg brackets, fab a lighter exhaust bracket, ditch the centerstand, lighter exhaust. 

i'd add one more not weight-related mod:  go +2 or +3 on the rear sprocket.  best performance bang for the buck there is imo. 
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Offline gregwaits

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Re: lightening the SOHC/4 to increase performance
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2006, 08:52:52 PM »
Great suggestions. Thanks to everyone. 8)
1978 CB750K8; 1970 CB450