Topic: 350f cam chain: what is it supposed to sound like?

[Dos]

Hey all,

I have one of those finicky cam chain tensioners on my 350f.
I know how to tension and everything but I was wondering if this sounds right.

When I start the bike the chain slaps but after it warms up it goes away. This is okay right?

The other thing is when I am riding I hear like a slight grinding sound. I don't know how to describe it something like dragging cents across the floor.
I didn't know if this is normal I figure its my chain just sliding past the internal metal. The chain isn't making that slapping sound at high speeds but it's just a slight sound like described before like if you took your keys and just slide them across a metal surface.. Ill try and post a vid with good audio.

[flybox1]

It might be hard for us to differentiate between cam chain and valve train noise. 
Help us out and take your video in a location where there is no white noise/breeze that can introduce other sounds.
10-15 seconds of (very still) idling sound at say 12'.  Again at 3'-4'.   Repeat the closer sound bite with a slow increase of rpm to 3000
Yes, there will be metal on metal sound.  Only a thin layer of oil separates these moving parts. 

[Dos]

Thank you I appreciate it. Just took it for alittle ride to warm up, video uploading now.

While doing a warm up I checked my oil on the side of the road and saw all this cream on the back end of the dip stick. When I looked in the engine there seemed to be a whitish coating as well .

Normal right? Video on its way

[Dos]

Here's the vid. Took it before your instructions I'll film again back at the garage

[flybox1]

The 'mayonnaise' on your dip stick is a sign of water in your oil.
Ride.  Complete oil/filter change with fresh oil.  NOW!
Cam chain noise might change after this is done.

[b52bombardier1]

Ughhhh. He's right. You have water in your oil. That gray stuff is an emulsion mix of water and oil. And water is a HORRIBLE lubricant.

Rick

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[Dos]

Here is the new video

Hmm that's weird I wonder how water got in there.ive got a weepy head gasket that's a about it..Can I burn away the h20?
Sucks to have to buy all new oil and order a filter but I guess I'll do it..

[Dos]

I've been riding for awhile with that so I hope that doesn't screw anything up .I'm using 20w50 valvoline conventional motorcycle oil so hopefully a new dose in this cold will do it well

[flybox1]

I'm sure you haven't been washing your bike with the dipstick out  That mayo can be from too many short rides/idle sessions.
The only way to keep it out is to ride long enough to burn it out. 

Add some MMO or Marine stabil to your current oil.  Go for a 30 minute ride, then drain it all while its hot.
Top it off w new, and go from there.

[Dos]

Could it be that yesterday I left the bike in the rain and this is condensation and such? And that this is temporary? I'll accept the facts but I'm just curious I store the bike in an open air garage so it just has a roof and wind can come in the front and sides. Will I always be at risk of getting water in there then? I ride the bike for about 15-20 minutes to the opposite end of town twice a day for work and they are considered short rides I guess

I'll deal with the oil water issue but how did the engine/cam sound

[flybox1]

all that vapor out the vent is another indicator of water in your oil.  If you do an oil change, and the mayo comes back then it is a result of your storage area/short riding time.
sounds good at idle, but yeah...that noise really kicks in when you're on the throttle.
Still, i'd do an oil change asap, and go from there.

[strynboen]

its the caburettors vho not are syncroed perfekt..it makes the firings of etch cylender not give  the same power autput..this make the engine hammer up and back as the pistone take/make speed thanges..as the firing hits the veaker cylenders...so it bangs and make the cam thain slack and teighten as the engine run..hammer the back slatch in the chain drive back and forth..real bad for the engine...its like a engine are not balanced..make vibrasions ..

[markreimer]

My 350f and 750 sound like a kitchen drawer being dumped on the ground. There is lots going in there, it will sound noisy! Even after a rebuild with new tensioners etc it's loud.

I also ALWAYS have that white stuff on my dipstick in cold weather after short rides. Condensation builds up over night and that's why you see the mayonnaise. If you ride long enough it's all burned off pretty quickly. But shorter rides where the oil isn't at full operating temp for a descent amount of time will not get rid of it. I get this the day after an oil change even. It's not water leaking into the oil system.




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[Dos]

Yeah I take it on short rides and today was the first time doing a long ride.

I will take it that this is temporary and ride it for 30mins  and burn it out.
This is the first time I've seen this so if it doesn't go away then I'll change oil and such.


I couldn't understand too much about the carbs being synced but I feel my carbs do need some syncing and I've done it before but I guess inhavent gotten it right. The bike does vibrate more. Should I just leave everything be and adjust the cam tensioner?

[pjlogue]

 Part is from the breather and most is probably from combustion.  Water vapor is a byproduct of combustion.  If your rings are worn/not seated you will get a lot of blow by and it will make the oil-water froth worse.

-P.

[markreimer]

Part is from the breather and most is probably from combustion.  Water vapor is a byproduct of combustion.  If your rings are worn/not seated you will get a lot of blow by and it will make the oil-water froth worse.

-P.

Interesting, didn't know that. I had very worn cylinders and recently bored to 2nd over with new rings. I still get the white junk but only on short rides. My commute is only 5km so it's nowhere close to operating temp, and it's dipping below freezing overnight. I find a layer of ice on my seat in the morning hah! I try not to ride such short jaunts too often

A good hour long highway ride will burn all that moisture off.


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[Dos]

Thanks for the help everyone!
sort of went off topic haha but I greatly appreciate!

In regards to the cam chain it is definitely grinding so I am going to do a proper carb sync and then see what happens

[Dos]

Update: went around the block a couple of times and no more mayonnaise. However got white smoke coming out of breather.

[flybox1]

Around the block a few times isnt hot enough.  How about 30+ miles....

[Dos]

I also synced the carbs with no fan

[Dos]

Hey fly box,

in regards to the cam chain grinding, it is still there even after a carb sync.

I loosened the cam chain adjuster and it seems that the grinding goes away at high speeds but that classic cam chain slapping is there at low speed and idle.

Don't know what to do with this one.
When I push down on the tensioner the slapping goes away but I hear that grinding come along.

[flybox1]

I would deduce that the tensioner is near its wear limits.
IIWM, id say fukc it....get the A/F mixture through the throttle range as good as you can, and ride it. 
Wait till the rains/cold come and do a tear down to replace the tensioner unit, do a mild hone/re-ring and top-end refresh.
Be ready for next riding season.

[strynboen]

on mine 400 four..i cant get the music aut..have made a direkt adjuster to press direkt at the horseshue..but still have some scrambel ..so think i need new thains..both the cam and the main thain...to the clutch shaft.
..think to take the engine aut and turn it up Down..and go inn from bottom..hope to safe the new head gasket...i mounted this summer

[camshaft1991]

Hey,  have you adjusted or fiddled with your valve clearance? If so check them again for clearance and see if the the tappet nuts are loose. If you take one of those eight caps off the cylinder head cover, you would see a nut. If you didn't adjust your valve gap,  disregard what I have to say. l one time adjusted my valves and I  didn't tighten one all the way after adjusting for gap and it came loose when I was riding. It sounded worse than yours in that second video.  I had to replace one of my rockers and my camshaft. Again,  I'm not saying you have the same problem. There are tons of other things that could be related to your idle issues

[camshaft1991]

If you do find a loose tappet screw check to see if the bottom of the valve tappet cover is chipped or hit.


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[Dos]

I'll check for loose tappets but this sounds very chain like.

[markreimer]

Hey just thought I'd share this: my 350F had a very noisy cam chain as I mentioned earlier. Well since I posted that comment I rebuilt the top end of the engine. While doing so, I discovered the tensioner mechanism was seized and not taking up any slack when I loosened the tensioner adjuster bolt at the lower front engine case. A soak with penetrating oil and some gentle pressure, it freed up. Now it's nice and snappy. When I fired up the bike the cam chain rattle was gone. Totally. It's quiet and smooth sounding. Might be worth checking into


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[hoodellyhoo]

Whenever I finally get my 350 back together I'm going to make a video about how to execute the "screwdriver" method of adjusting the cam chain just so people can at least hear the difference between a lose and adjusted cam chain. When I first got my bike running I probably put 2000 miles on it with a lose cam chain simply because I didn't know any better. I had no idea how these engines were supposed to sound. It finally started to get worse and worse so much that during one wrenching session I gave the adjuster one final good "heave" and un-stuck the horseshoe which allowed me to finally properly tension the cam chain. Was amazed at how quiet the engine was after that considering the "chain over the edge of a table" sound I was so used to.

[Dos]

Whenever I finally get my 350 back together I'm going to make a video about how to execute the "screwdriver" method of adjusting the cam chain just so people can at least hear the difference between a lose and adjusted cam chain. When I first got my bike running I probably put 2000 miles on it with a lose cam chain simply because I didn't know any better. I had no idea how these engines were supposed to sound. It finally started to get worse and worse so much that during one wrenching session I gave the adjuster one final good "heave" and un-stuck the horseshoe which allowed me to finally properly tension the cam chain. Was amazed at how quiet the engine was after that considering the "chain over the edge of a table" sound I was so used to.

That sounds like an awesome idea. A lot of people have this issue with their cb350f's including myself. Please post the vid here when it's done!
thanks!

[Trevor from Warragul]

http://japan.webike.net/products/21955541.html

[hoodellyhoo]

That sounds like an awesome idea. A lot of people have this issue with their cb350f's including myself. Please post the vid here when it's done!
thanks!

Yeah it is a great idea isn't it! Too bad I made the bone-headed decision to tear apart my motor before making such a video Dang thing has been apart for almost 6 years now and every year I tell myself I'm going to finally buckle down and button it back up. Someday this old lump will scream again...

[hoodellyhoo]

http://japan.webike.net/products/21955541.html

Very cool! I know I've read about people making similar devices themselves but that looks very well made and priced well.

[markreimer]

I've got a video of my 350 running after I rebuilt it in December and tensioned the chain. I'll dig it up


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[strynboen]

here is mine 400 four..i have thanged cylenders pistons..but have still some rattel..think i need to thange the big intern thain too..