Topic: Wheel truing

[emlupi]

Hello all,
Wheel truing seems to be a black art. I am considering setting up some v-blocks and a dial indicator and give it a go. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Is it necessary to remove the brake disc to perform this task? Let's hear some ideas

[pjlogue]

You can use V blocks or true them while on the bike.  You can also leave the brake disc on.  You have to make sure the dial Gage does not move.  (I recommend a dial Gage instead of eyeballing a feeler.  It is much quicker)  Use your valve stem as a reference point and use tape to mark hi/low points on the rim.

You want to get your wheel hop sorted first.  Then do lateral run out (wobble)  go back and check the hop and then recheck wobble.  If your rim has a hop (high spot= point farthest from the center of rotation and closest to the dial Gage) loosen the spokes on the low side and tighten on the high side.  The amount to loosen/tighten depends on how far out you are.  for a few thousandths you can try 1/4 turn on the nipple.  you need to work out from either side of the high/low spot ~3-4 spokes either side and loosen/tighten them a little less (1/8th turn)  For hop, spokes on both sides of the hub are adjusted.

For the wobble, loosen the high side (side closest to the dial Gage) and tighten the low side.  You will need to slightly adjust the next couple of spokes to either side of the high/low point.  The adjusting of the neighboring spokes keeps the tension of the spokes more constant.  For the wobble one side of the hub spokes are tightened. the other hub side spokes are loosened.

When you get the hop and wobble sorted you need to check the hub offset.  Some bikes have no offset, some do.    Don't be afraid of turning the nipples.  Mark a spoke, turn the nipple and see what it does to the dial reading.  Before long you will begin to get a feel of what you are doing and what you need to do.  I laced up new rims and trued them.  Yes, it took me a while (a few evenings) but I got them to within 10 thousandths of an inch. 

Harbor freight has a decent wheel balancing  tool for around $40.  The bar that goes through the wheel was crap (not straight)  so I ordered a ground rod.  This made life much easier.  You can also balance your wheel with this when your tire is mounted.  Balancing while on the bike is impossible as the hub/axle has too much friction.

-P.

[lrutt]

+1 the HF stand. I've done several wheels. You get better with each one. Actually kind of fun. First one probably took 3 hours including lacing spokes. Pretty cool to do actually. Got to a tire shop and get real lead stick on weights. hard to find the wrap lead spoke weights.

[pjlogue]

Yea, once I got the hang of it, it was kind of fun.  Was daunting at first.  I hadn't planned to do it myself until I got some pricing on lacing and truing.  Most shops wanted $100 to lace and another $200 or more to true.  At those prices I figured I would learn!

-P.

[emlupi]

Thanks, just what I was looking for.

[strynboen]

a old rear sving arm is fine..or weld some sqvare iron tubing..and Mount small bearings to run the wheel shaft..or make some conic taps so it can be trued vitaut bearings/shaft inn,,use a shaft to press then into

[wowbagger]

Here's a post I did a while back on this:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,157613.0.html

Also, there's some good info in the Wheel FAQ:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,368.0.html

[grcamna2]

Good thread  and 'pjlogue' is right on the mark.

[wowbagger]

Good thread  and 'pjlogue' is right on the mark.

Yeah, at the price my local shop wanted, I just bought all the (cheap versions of the) tools and did them myself. I've done three sets for myself already and am now trading wheel truing service with my friends for other cool stuff.

[pjlogue]

Just as a note; you should re-check your wheels after several hundred miles if you re-laced them.  Spokes can stretch and nipples need to seat in with the flexing of the wheel.  This can cause the rim to be out of true. 

-P.

[754]

Do the first ones on the bike, get he feel  for it. Tire off.....but you can check first with tire on to see if it needs it......may have to bolt some flat bar to fender mount to hold dial indicator.
 Its not for everyone,but if you enjoy it..tool up..

[jgger]

Back in the olden days I used a felt marker (didn't have a dial indicator) to find the high spots. Then you have a mark as to where the adjustment needs to be done. Just spin the wheel and ease the pen into the rim. A light mark was the starting point and the heavier the mark was where more adjustment was needed. It worked fine and was very visual, you can double check with the indicator to fine tune. A little lacquer thinner takes the marker off.

Shoot some WD-40 into the nipples before you start if it isn't a new lace job to cut down the risk of rounding off a nipple. Spend what it takes to get the PROPER SIZE SPOKE WRENCH to make life easier.

Take your time, and have at it!

[b52bombardier1]

+1 to jgger's recommendation. I did the exact same technique with the front wheel on my CL100 and it trued right up. The big thing to remember is that truing requires some tightening and some loosening to easily bring things back into alignment.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[lrutt]

Make sure to use the correct size spoke wrench. Not something close enough. That is key as you'll bugger the nipples and that's not good. I have several types of spoke wrenches. Ditto the lube the nipples up. When I lace from scratch I put a dab of grease in each one.

[emlupi]

Thanks for all the great tips and ideas to help get me on the right track. Definitely a major help to avoid frustration and wasted time/effort.

I know in a perfect world the goal is to have .0000" of runout on the rim but in the real world what is the acceptable limit? The manual states .080" as the limit for repair or replacement but that seems like quite a bit to me. Where should I be to say, "OK that's good", because I'm sure I could chase these adjustments around the wheel all day.

[pjlogue]

When I trued my wheels it took me several evenings.  The large chunk of that time was the learning curve.  If you get 0.04" I would say that is pretty good and easily obtainable.  I was able to get 0.01"  Your tire undoubtedly will have more hop and wobble in the rubber than a trued rim.  When you true your rims you will probably find a "blip" in the dial where the weld was on the rim.  It is very abrupt.  Ignore this spot.  If your dial deviates more than 2 spokes either side of the weld then you need to work on that area.

-P.

[grcamna2]

Thanks for all the great tips and ideas to help get me on the right track. Definitely a major help to avoid frustration and wasted time/effort.

I know in a perfect world the goal is to have .0000" of runout on the rim but in the real world what is the acceptable limit? The manual states .080" as the limit for repair or replacement but that seems like quite a bit to me. Where should I be to say, "OK that's good", because I'm sure I could chase these adjustments around the wheel all day.

That depends on how true your rim is(dents?)that you plan on using;I agree w/ pjlogue.
I don't use a dial indicator myself and have a good truing stand where you can spin the wheel and hear + see how true it is.True it as close as the cond. of the rim you're using will let you. 

[emlupi]

Thanks guys. The rims I have are the originals and so they will have dings, pits etc. I know I will see these irregularities as "blips" on the dial as they go around. I will be looking for the average range of movement on the dial either side of a "zero" point and try to work it in from there. I am sure that I will have to mess around with it to get the feel for it. Better than sitting around watching TV all winter.

[754]

Try for .030... ...   Should work well and not drive you insane.

[Don R]

 You may see a bulge where the weld on the rim is. I whacked mine with a dead blow hammer and it went right where I wanted it. I couldn't believe I did that, it was freshly back from the chrome shop.

[Bailgang]

Fantastic info!! Perfect timing because I'm going to be re-lacing the rims on a cb350 I have soon and have been gathering info on the subject because this will be my first time. The only thing making me cringe at the moment is having to buy a spoke torque wrench that I may never use again after this project or at least not anytime soon after. I know this sounds like a cheap skate question possibly a dumb question but I have to ask, can I use my existing inch lbs torque wrench using a crows foot adapter on the end or should I just suck it up and get the proper spoke TQ wrench?

[grcamna2]

Fantastic info!! Perfect timing because I'm going to be re-lacing the rims on a cb350 I have soon and have been gathering info on the subject because this will be my first time. The only thing making me cringe at the moment is having to buy a spoke torque wrench that I may never use again after this project or at least not anytime soon after. I know this sounds like a cheap skate question possibly a dumb question but I have to ask, can I use my existing inch lbs torque wrench using a crows foot adapter on the end or should I just suck it up and get the proper spoke TQ wrench?

Bg,
I lube my spoke threads very lightly w/ Never Seize and run the nipples down a few times on each spoke to make sure the light coating is uniform all the way down the threads and then just get each spoke tensioned to all the others evenly and go a 1/8 turn at a time on ea. spoke in-turn until they are all fairly snug.I never used a spoke torque wrench as I've been building/truing wheels for yrs. and just do it by 'feel'.I think it's a good idea to clean the threads on ea. spoke w/ a small SS wire brush before you build the wheel if they are used.

[strynboen]

have somone tryed to elektro galvanice old spokes...i like the idea..of reuse all vho can be safed.                  .and use some ekstra  time on it....
 i have more time then Money(--lost my job) and.(.safe my Money to bay more bikes..to spend my less Money on..)..

[Bailgang]

Fantastic info!! Perfect timing because I'm going to be re-lacing the rims on a cb350 I have soon and have been gathering info on the subject because this will be my first time. The only thing making me cringe at the moment is having to buy a spoke torque wrench that I may never use again after this project or at least not anytime soon after. I know this sounds like a cheap skate question possibly a dumb question but I have to ask, can I use my existing inch lbs torque wrench using a crows foot adapter on the end or should I just suck it up and get the proper spoke TQ wrench?

Bg,
I lube my spoke threads very lightly w/ Never Seize and run the nipples down a few times on each spoke to make sure the light coating is uniform all the way down the threads and then just get each spoke tensioned to all the others evenly and go a 1/8 turn at a time on ea. spoke in-turn until they are all fairly snug.I never used a spoke torque wrench as I've been building/truing wheels for yrs. and just do it by 'feel'.I think it's a good idea to clean the threads on ea. spoke w/ a small SS wire brush before you build the wheel if they are used.

Thanks a bunch for the tip.