Topic: So I AM burning oil! (Still)

[Davez134]

Just want to say how much I love the frame kits. This took me 15 minutes to get to this point!



Just looking at seals on number 1 cylinder, nothing looks obviously wrong. Will post close ups once I get springs off.


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[Davez134]

While Im waiting to remove the valve springs and do a proper leak down test,  I wanted to pressurize the cylinder. I used my air compressor and threaded my compression gauge with the check valve removed into the spark plug hole. I removed the rocker arms, so I know the valves are closed. I heard what sounds like a decent air leak from the cam chain tunnel area. I'm assuming this is not good, as that would mean that air is leaking past the rings. My questions so far:

Does this not mean much because I did this on a cold engine?
If it is a ring and not a valve, I would assume the compression would differ between cylinders right? (it does not, was 160+ on all but that was when warm)
How do I go about diagnosing the right way? Ive tried to read about it, but not comprehending it (Ive never dealt with a problem like this before) I'm getting a leak down tester Friday.
Thanks!

[RAFster122s]

Any oil in the cylinder?  How much pressure?  Check your other cylinders.  Could be many reasons on the leak. Wouldn't freak out about it yet.
You could be down on one cylinder and it run fine and have no issues for a long time.  I forget the spec for the variance...if it is outside the recommended variance between cylinders it starts affecting running.

David

[Davez134]

Any oil in the cylinder?  How much pressure?  Check your other cylinders.  Could be many reasons on the leak. Wouldn't freak out about it yet.
You could be down on one cylinder and it run fine and have no issues for a long time.  I forget the spec for the variance...if it is outside the recommended variance between cylinders it starts affecting running.

David

So, i feel a little better now. I tried my other cylinders and they sounded the same as far as the amount of air leaking out, so i concluded pressurizing the cylinders cold and just listening for air is useless. I figured I'd try it while I was waiting for parts/correct tools.

[Retro Rocket]

If your compression test read 160psi across all 4 bores, they it is highly unlikely you have an issue with rings on any cylinder. Also, the intermittent issue of smoke upon startup but not when warm, is further indication (in my opinion) that the issue is in the head, not the block. Rings burn oil the hotter the oil/engine becomes. And a 10% variance within the 4 bores for compression is the Golden Rule.

Yep, the old rule of thumb was that, if it blows smoke under acceleration its rings, if it puffs at start up or during deceleration, its valves....

[PeWe]

Ride the bike to about and give throttle to higher rpm on 2:nd or 3:rd gear, close throttle completely, wait a few seconds and open  again. If you see a cloud behind the bike it is the valve seals. Easier if a friend drive behind that can smell eventual oil burn too.
I had a car that could cause real problems for the other behind me Thick nice smelling cloud.

Oil smoke during accelearation, rings as written by others.
- Is it really only too wide end gap, too tight must cause problems too, or?
- Only oil rings that affect this?

[Davez134]

Two things to report. First of all, I have intake and exhaust seals. No obvious damage, but I'm going to pull and replace.


Second, that valve spring removal tool is great! Works just as in the video! I love tools that work as they are supposed to.


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[evanphi]

Were you able to get all valves? 2 and 3 EX would be the ones I would be worried about using that tool.

[Davez134]

Were you able to get all valves? 2 and 3 EX would be the ones I would be worried about using that tool.

I don't need to remove those, but I held the tool against those 2 (2/3 exhaust) to check clearance, and there is just enough. The top of the tool rests against the frame rail, but squares up enough to give it a tap.

[evanphi]

Were you able to get all valves? 2 and 3 EX would be the ones I would be worried about using that tool.

I don't need to remove those, but I held the tool against those 2 (2/3 exhaust) to check clearance, and there is just enough. The top of the tool rests against the frame rail, but squares up enough to give it a tap.

perfect. good to know if I need it.

You should make a little video of using it on our bikes. There aren't many on youtube about the tool.

[Davez134]

I'll make one on the install. I was making it for removal, just a half assed video, and my phone fell off where it was propped.

[evanphi]

I'll make one on the install. I was making it for removal, just a half assed video, and my phone fell off where it was propped.

[Davez134]

Were you able to get all valves? 2 and 3 EX would be the ones I would be worried about using that tool.

I don't need to remove those, but I held the tool against those 2 (2/3 exhaust) to check clearance, and there is just enough. The top of the tool rests against the frame rail, but squares up enough to give it a tap.

perfect. good to know if I need it.

You should make a little video of using it on our bikes. There aren't many on youtube about the tool.

Here ya go: removal..

Installation..



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[RevDoc]

  Glad to see it worked out so well for you, Dave.

[evanphi]

Thanks for the videos! I'm going to send them to my father in law. We were talking about the tool today. He's a mechanic.

[Davez134]

No problem. And just to let you know, I replaced all 8 seals while I was in there, and it worked just fine on 2/3 exhaust valves too.

[evanphi]

No problem. And just to let you know, I replaced all 8 seals while I was in there, and it worked just fine on 2/3 exhaust valves too.

Excellent. Good to know for future.

[MRieck]

Dave  push the down a small amount and rock the valves back and forth to check stem clearance. Check the exhaust valves first

[Davez134]

Dave  push the down a small amount and rock the valves back and forth to check stem clearance. Check the exhaust valves first

Well, I already have it back together. Valves seemed to be solid in the guides, but I didn't actually measure. The head only has 5000 miles on it so I didn't even think it would be that. Should have measured though 😕

How exactly should I check the valve stem clearance with the head installed? Hondaman's book only shows with the head off...

[Davez134]

Started her up today, still smoking. And after replacing all valve seals with ones I had from CycleX, seems to be a little smoke from all 4! Maybe I need to go on a long ride to burn off residual oil? But, I did do a proper leak down test, and I'm only losing 3%.

[Davez134]

I rode it hard today. Little smoke on startup, but nothing after it was warm. Pulled back in the driveway, after idling for 30 seconds I gave it throttle and there was a small puff of smoke. I'm fearing it is a guide/stem clearance issue now. Going to give it a few more rides though.

[NobleHops]

Great thread, thanks to all contributors.

[Davez134]

Well, I don't think it's good news. Still smoke from #1 on startup. Also after idling for a bit when warm and giving it gas, there is a puff of smoke still. It is running great otherwise. I fear the guides may be worn, causing movement of the valve stems and warping the seal. Only one way to find out I guess.

[halllzy]

Are you getting a funky smells?  My 750F has grown been a bit smoky upon start up but it does not smell like burning oil.  Way less mid summer, more smoke spring and fall (not really temperature dependant either)
 +1 to all contributors

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[PeWe]

This engine has fresh honed bores, new piston rings and correct end gaps not too small?