Topic: Honda competing agianst BMW

[Prospect]

What was Honda's bike to compete against the 70's and 80's BMW dual purpose machines with long distance capability and good off-road capabilities.  Mainly the 1980's R80 G/S  The goldwing was a great long distance tourer but zero off-road capability.

[eigenvector]

That would be the NX series - late 80's.

Maybe another model before that, but you have to remember that Honda had the CL70 long before BMW entered the market (if I'm not mistaken).

[seanbarney41]

Afrika Twin

[simon#42]

before they made the africa twin they made the xlv 750r . a great bike let down by a terrible gearbox .

[seanbarney41]

Maybe another model before that, but you have to remember that Honda had the CL70 long before BMW entered the market (if I'm not mistaken).

The CL70 was introduced in 1969. BMW has been making motorcycles since the 1923 (R32 model). I think that makes you mistaken. 

dual purpose?

[seanbarney41]

dual purpose?

Well, the CL70 wasn't a dual purpose bike:

"As a scrambler, it had a high-mount exhaust and a high rear fender. This allowed the look, though not really the capability, of extended off-road capability, before real dual-sport motorcycles were available."

not sure why anyone mentioned the CL's as everyone knows they are barely different from their street bike counterparts.  SL's, XL's and XR's were available soon after '69.  That said, I think I would much rather try to play with a CL in the dirt than some gigantic GS.

Just because the WWII era bmw happened to work better in the desert than other available machinery doesn't mean BMW intended it to be dual purpose.

[eigenvector]

I tossed it out more to direct the conversation to the scramblers - I'm no encyclopedia on Honda's or Triumphs, BSA, etc.. 

Calling a Zundapp or BMW a dual sport is ridiculous unless your also prepared to call the Harley and Indians of that era dual sports.

I don't have a problem calling BMW the king of dual sport motorcycles, I just don't believe they marketed the term first.  Perfectly willing to be concede I'm wrong there.

[754]

I remember the colored seat 800 Beemer in the late 80,s ...in N America, I dont think there was any other bigbore dual purpose..that i remember..
 And they had built high pipe models for competition years before that..maybe ISDT ?

[Prospect]

The CL's were small displacement bikes so not really in the same category as a BMW g/s.  I don't think honda put out anything worthy of competing till the the XLV in 83.  I guess they didn't have anything till then missing out in the late 70's and early 80's till the africa twin. 

[754]

Honda had CL 350,s and 450,s....
And the SL 350.. But they were tough to carry stuff on..
They used them in Baja....

[70CB750]

I tossed it out more to direct the conversation to the scramblers - I'm no encyclopedia on Honda's or Triumphs, BSA, etc.. 

Calling a Zundapp or BMW a dual sport is ridiculous unless your also prepared to call the Harley and Indians of that era dual sports.

I don't have a problem calling BMW the king of dual sport motorcycles, I just don't believe they marketed the term first.  Perfectly willing to be concede I'm wrong there.

It is like calling kubelwagen cabriolet

[ekpent]

  In the 1970's a 750 back then was a 'big' bike'. There just were not the 1200 cc bemoths around like we see nowdays. That's why the Kaw 900 was such a big deal, it had a 'huge' engine.  People did all their fun stuff back then with a lot less cc.

[flatlander]

It is like calling kubelwagen cabriolet

you think you're joking:
about 10 or 15 years ago i was on a night train from amsterdam to stuttgart and missed my stop... woke up in munich. "no problem" said a friendly fellow passenger "i'm here to pick up a car nearby and drive it back to stuttgart, you just come along".
turns out the "car" was a kubelwagen that he had bought on ebay and we ended up spending almost a day puttering along the german autobahn in that open contraption, at something like 60 to 80kph. it was january and bleeding cold. i was thoroughly frozen even just half way through the trip and have never been so happy to get out of any vehicle!

[eigenvector]

It's not a Honda of course, but what about the XT500?

[754]

My buddy got the first XT, in these parts..had it on Halloween 1975..
Although he rode it too Sturgis twice... Over 1000 miles each way.... It is not a road bike like tye Beemer dual purpose..
 That I can confirm... I rode it on one of those trips for about an hour at 65 mph, and the report from my assdyno...was not favorable..... Maybe skinnyass guys like he was makes it less painful, than a big guy like me.. But I grew up on a CB350 2win...  And in those days 16-20 hours on a bike were cake...So I can take a fair amount of abuse.
 So in terms of an ADV bike or a modern dual purpose...no..the XT did not make the cut..

[70CB750]

My dad's first car was 1943 Kubelwagen, he sold it when I was 11, i know a thing or two about winter in old KdF. 

It is like calling kubelwagen cabriolet

you think you're joking:
about 10 or 15 years ago i was on a night train from amsterdam to stuttgart and missed my stop... woke up in munich. "no problem" said a friendly fellow passenger "i'm here to pick up a car nearby and drive it back to stuttgart, you just come along".
turns out the "car" was a kubelwagen that he had bought on ebay and we ended up spending almost a day puttering along the german autobahn in that open contraption, at something like 60 to 80kph. it was january and bleeding cold. i was thoroughly frozen even just half way through the trip and have never been so happy to get out of any vehicle!