Author Topic: 76 CB550 Cafe build  (Read 87327 times)

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Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #575 on: October 27, 2021, 08:26:56 AM »
Everything is back together, fired it up and all is good.  Valvetrain noise is defintely quieter now.  Just have to wait for the nor'easter to be over to get back to getting the power band tuned up.

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #576 on: October 28, 2021, 12:15:42 PM »





Going to put a couple hundred miles on it at this point and just enjoy it.  Just off idle throttle is still an issue, but not sure what to do about it.  Idle is 14:1 AFR, 1/4 throttle is 12.5 and stays in that range up to full.  That seems to say that my pilot, needle and main are all good (or even that needle needs to drop/clip go up), but blipping the gas to 1/4 throttle generates a stumble and my A/F gauges goes full lean.  If I richen up the idle mixture I can make it better but it doesn't go away.



Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #577 on: October 28, 2021, 04:13:00 PM »
Blipping the throttle on these CBs never responded like a modern bike...so I am not surprised that you have weird AF ratios when you try that.
No accelerator pumps on the carbs to give an extra shot of gas and you open the carb throat wide causing it to go lean.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #578 on: October 28, 2021, 04:18:12 PM »
Yeah, but should I have to get the rpms over 2k before I can start to slip the throttle to take off?  It isn't just lean on the blip, if I try to leave a stop I barely can and then suddenly it recovers and the rpms take off.

Maybe I need to find a stock one of these and see how it rides...

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #579 on: January 04, 2022, 07:18:32 AM »
Bike is running well now.  Talked to Murray where I got the VM34 kit.  He explained the issue is a mental picture for me, I just had to adjust my expectation.  One big carb to drive two cylinders works fine everywhere but just off idle, if I open the throttle and try to slip the clutch from that rpm (which I do with a modern bike) there isn't enough vacuum and it bogs.  I just to bring the rpms up to like 2500 before I slip the clutch and it is all good.  Up top this setup runs.

Have to color and clear the new tank, but first I want to get bodywork out of the way.  My method of attaching the seat sucks (four bolt underneath), so I made a front mount under the gas tank and added a seat perch from a Kawasaki to the back.  Have to figure out where to run the release line but that shouldn't be a big deal.  Epoxied on the bolts for the mount last night, have to fiberglass them in place for a secure fit.  Plenty of slop in height for the mount so I should get a nice snug click once I get it all adjusted.




Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #580 on: January 04, 2022, 08:10:18 AM »
I like the incorporation of the modern seat release. Another easy solution is to use a Zeus fastener under the seat upholstery (assuming that the pad is removable).
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #581 on: January 04, 2022, 08:35:29 AM »
Seat pad is screwed into the bottom of the bodywork (you can see two of the screws in the back of the bodywork).

If I had it all to do over the dsus fittings would be how I would have laid it out from the start.  Hindsight 20/20 and all that :)



Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #582 on: January 05, 2022, 02:47:44 PM »
Finished this up today.  Have to lighten the seat clip, that is 1/8" stainless and it is the heaviest thing on the bike :)  Added a small block of fiberglass to the rear of the bodywork and sanded it down until it just snugs up against the frame rail.  Ran the release cable through the fender liner and down to the frame - will have to make a little hook release for it and mount it to the suspension mount plate.





Going to fix a couple little bodywork issues on the seat and then color and clear that and the tank.

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #583 on: May 13, 2022, 08:09:47 AM »
Long time no post.  Couldn't take the off idle behavior of the VM34's, picked up a set of stock carbs off ebay and rebuilt them.  Using stock air plenum with a 3d printed adapter to run a K&N air filter and made a small aluminum hanger to hold up the plenum.





Started with 40 pilot 105 mains but couldn't even accelerate it would go so lean.  Found another person with basically my same mods and he went all the way to 125 mains to get his bike running well.  I went to 120's and still very lean on the 3rd clip.  Dropped to 2nd clip and could ride it but still saw A/F ratios of 16 under light throttle.  Went down to the first clip.  Now too far, light throttle is in the 13's; went full throttle and saw 10.5.  So I dropped to 115 this morning, still on the bottom needle slot.  Haven't ridden it after making those changes but I think I will be very close.  I also put 38 pilots on the inner 2 cylinders since when sitting at idle the outer exhaust headers are always 20-30 degrees hotter than the inners.  I'll hold off judgement until I'm all done, but after I put several hundred miles on the motor (and getting that vacuum up) I might try going back to the VM34 kit, it just has so much more power.

One thing I can say for those who are thinking of doing a build, exhaust obviously makes a difference but I never wanted this bike to be loud.  Using the exact same exhaust I've had three different carb setups and the amount of noise the bike makes with different intakes is tremendous.

CR26's are animals.  The cold start circuit is barely functional and mildly terrifying, with fuel sometimes spitting out of the carb inlet.  Idle has to be at 1500 rpm in order to stay running and they are loud as #$%*.  But from 1/4 throttle and up this bike is pretty damn quick (I have the weight at 360# wet).

VM34 kit starts and idles like a dream.  Cold start is a little annoying in that there is a separate choke lever on each carb, so you get it running with both and after 10 second or so you close one of them and ride away.  Close the second pretty much as soon as you get 1/4 mile down the road.  Rips from 1/4 to full throttle.  Total dead spot just off idle, to the point where you have to lightly feather the throttle (and I mean lightly) just to get to 2000 rpm and then you can pull away from a stop.  Also, quite loud (if the CR's are a 10, these are at least 7).  Needle changes super easy with carbs on the bike

Stock carbs with pods.  Can't speak to their performance but can say they are a pain in that the clutch hanger has to be bent at a weird angle in order to run them.  Much quieter than both aftermarket solutions, about a 4 on the above scale

Stock carbs with air plenum and K&N.  Idle perfect, cold start perfect, quiet as #$%*, about a 2 on this scale (again, all with the same exhaust). Jetting changes are a pain in the ass, but after pulling carbs about 20 times I no longer get pissed about it and am becoming pretty efficient with it.


Question for body people.  I painted my tank finally.  Used 2k primer, that sat on it for months.  Recently sprayed body color with lacquer, let it set for a couple days and then sprayed a 2k clear.  Popped my gas cap to fill it the other day and found this:



I know the lacquer won't like paint fumes but 2 figured the 2 part epoxy clear would handle it fine.  The clear was applied a little past the color in the tank lip.  These bikes originally came with what had to be just lacquer - what does one do to prevent this?

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #584 on: May 13, 2022, 08:34:20 AM »
Thanks.  That's what I was thinking about doing but it just didn't seem right.  Grabbing the exacto now...

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #585 on: May 14, 2022, 01:32:48 PM »
Ok, so gas tank inlet is taken care of, thanks Cal.  Still haven't ridden with the new jetting, came out today to find the clutch cable snapped at the ferule for the clutch side (I keep a strap on the clutch lever when the bike is sitting, if I don't the damn clutch plates stick to each other and I have to break them loose before I can ride).  I made the cable using the kit from Revival.  When I dug out the stock cable I noticed how much thicker the stock cable is.  Glad it snapped while sitting and not while on a ride!

I have been venting the breather cover through a small filter that just dangles behind the motor, but I ran it into the air plenum to clean things up.




When I had pod filters on the stock carbs all I did was dial in the idle circuit.  But in doing so I noticed that the exhaust headers were all within 10 degrees of each other.  After going to the plenum the outer pipes are 30-40 degrees hotter than the inners.  Is this by design?  I get that the outer cylinders have a lot more fins exposed to air so they can be tuned leaner but that kind of seems like a lot.  That is why I went to 38 pilots on cylinders 2&3, to try to even that out.  Should I just get over it and move on?


Offline Gurp

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #586 on: May 14, 2022, 03:20:00 PM »
That's pretty interesting on the temps. Logic would say tune them all the same. Wonder how something like a breadbox or a antipod would fair up on. That test.
slow Progress 74 cb550.

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Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #587 on: May 14, 2022, 03:31:22 PM »
Yeah, I'm wondering if the plenum was designed that way.  Seems a reasonable thing to do on a stock motorcycle that might have to sit and idle for a while.  If they are all tuned the same you either have to run all 4 richer to cool the inner cylinders or just let them run hotter.  I would be interested hearing from anyone with a stock bike who has a thermal gun to measure their pipes.

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #588 on: May 17, 2022, 09:06:55 PM »
Bike is done.  Fully rideable and fun.  Starts instantly, idles well, a hoot to bop around on.  I spent some time now that it is fully rideable to adjust the suspension.  I'm at full soft on compression and mostly soft on rebound on the front end.  I think I could do with a lighter set of springs as well since this bike is 60 pounds lighter than the GSXR750 the forks came off of.  Back end is as soft as I can make it, just have to live with it since I'm not putting Fox shocks on this bike.

I'm at 38 pilot jets, 110 main, jet needle on 2nd clip from the bottom.  Couple things I learned:

1: Every time you touch the carbs you must resync them.  I was under the impression that was a 'final touch' kind of thing.  I think most of my complaints about stock carbs came from this misunderstanding.  Twice after making an adjustment I thought I had a clogged pilot jet because one exhaust pipe would sit at 100 degrees.  First time, I pulled the carb rack off, second time I check the sync and the slide was so high it showed zero vacuum.  This also led to my constantly whacky exhaust temps.  After syncing today for what I hope is the last time all four pipes were within 5 degrees of each other.
2: Even with an AFR gauge you have to be careful.  If you aren't sync'd everything will be weird (hence going all the way up to 120 mains with the lowest clip on the jet). I could not get my idle to read anything reasonable, even after dropping to 38s and going three turns out the gauge still showed 12.5:1.  Once I raised the throttle to sync the carbs that went way up (15:1).  I think at 1100 rpm there was enough air exchange to screw up the sensor reading, I was getting fresh air in there.  Raise the idle and it leaned out.  I pulled the gauge off and went old school based on how it sounded, I wound up 1.5 turns out.

Now that everything is working I need to put the Domino throttle back on.  The motion pro throttle is almost a half turn open to close.  You can't get to full throttle without adjusting your grip from a normal riding position and if you want to scoot on this thing you need to be able to open it all the way up.

My one last gripe will be taken care of shortly.  Any guesses?



« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 09:12:32 PM by tshrey »

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #589 on: May 18, 2022, 11:13:17 AM »
Domino throttle is no good, the cables were made for the CR26's that I originally had on and won't work with the stock setup.  But I did do an old racer trick and superglued a thick cable tie onto the throttle tube where the cables run, should gain me a little more cable travel for a given turn of the wrist.

Tidied up cables along the frame and tried a different route for my clutch cable to fit the angles of the clip-ons and clutch perch a little better.  New copper washers are going on today when they get here to clean up a tiny bit of weeping around the bolts for the valve cover (you can see it in the pic below) and then the tank goes back on for the last time. Last little things to do: machine up a little lever to pull the cable that releases the seat and mount it under the frame (I saw someone on youtube did this, I think I will just copy that design), form up a carbon fiber chain guard and then make a carbon rear hugger to keep road crap off the K&N filter.  But all of that can be done while still using the bike to ride.




Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #590 on: May 26, 2022, 11:15:11 AM »
Figured out at least one issue with what I think is a ridiculous clutch pull (at least twice as heavy as the cable clutch on my MT09).

The black perch is what I'm using, off a GSXR.  The silver is one I had in my parts bin, generic one from 4into1.  The pivot to ferule distance on the GSXR is 34mm, on the generic it is 27.  So that is a 25% difference in lever ratio.  I put that on the bike and things are certainly easier.  If anyone can easily measure a stock perch I'd be interested in hearing what that distance is.

Also, having to swap this made it clear what a fantastic thing Woodcraft clipons are.  Loosen one bolt and you can slide the clipon out and slide a new perch on.  If these were still the GSXR one-piece clipons I originally had everything would have to come off the other end; with how the wires are run inside the bar for the motogadget switches that would mean disassembling and disconnecting all the wires from the switches.


Offline wolf550

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #591 on: May 26, 2022, 05:16:29 PM »
Bike is done.  Fully rideable and fun.  Starts instantly, idles well, a hoot to bop around on.  I spent some time now that it is fully rideable to adjust the suspension.  I'm at full soft on compression and mostly soft on rebound on the front end.  I think I could do with a lighter set of springs as well since this bike is 60 pounds lighter than the GSXR750 the forks came off of.  Back end is as soft as I can make it, just have to live with it since I'm not putting Fox shocks on this bike.

I'm at 38 pilot jets, 110 main, jet needle on 2nd clip from the bottom.  Couple things I learned:

1: Every time you touch the carbs you must resync them.  I was under the impression that was a 'final touch' kind of thing.  I think most of my complaints about stock carbs came from this misunderstanding.  Twice after making an adjustment I thought I had a clogged pilot jet because one exhaust pipe would sit at 100 degrees.  First time, I pulled the carb rack off, second time I check the sync and the slide was so high it showed zero vacuum.  This also led to my constantly whacky exhaust temps.  After syncing today for what I hope is the last time all four pipes were within 5 degrees of each other.
2: Even with an AFR gauge you have to be careful.  If you aren't sync'd everything will be weird (hence going all the way up to 120 mains with the lowest clip on the jet). I could not get my idle to read anything reasonable, even after dropping to 38s and going three turns out the gauge still showed 12.5:1.  Once I raised the throttle to sync the carbs that went way up (15:1).  I think at 1100 rpm there was enough air exchange to screw up the sensor reading, I was getting fresh air in there.  Raise the idle and it leaned out.  I pulled the gauge off and went old school based on how it sounded, I wound up 1.5 turns out.

Now that everything is working I need to put the Domino throttle back on.  The motion pro throttle is almost a half turn open to close.  You can't get to full throttle without adjusting your grip from a normal riding position and if you want to scoot on this thing you need to be able to open it all the way up.

My one last gripe will be taken care of shortly.  Any guesses?



you going with the hydraulic clutch conversion!!!
74' CB550 (Sold)
71' CB500/550 (Sold)

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #592 on: May 27, 2022, 10:20:43 AM »
Yup! Gonna grab a ducati slave cylinder and weld in some bracing on the back side.  Will have to make some careful measurements and make myself a new actuator rod.


After riding 100 miles this morning I see that I have a very small oil leak coming from the alternator cover.  It is either the o-ring on the case plug or the crank seal.  Please someone tell me that seal can be replaced without breaking the case halves...

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #593 on: May 27, 2022, 10:24:49 AM »
Also, went to get the bike inspected.  NY passed a new law with a perfectly fine intention - prevent people from obnoxious exhausts from riding on the street.  But the way it is worded no inspection station will pass a bike now without a totally stock exhaust (not even a slip-on on a new bike).  The dealer that I normally go to said that my exhaust wasn't stock.  I'm like, dude, you find me a fifty year old stock exhaust that isn't rusted out and I'll put it on.  Surely there is a grandfather clause for old bikes.  Went down the street to another dealer and they slapped a sticker on it.  Law doesn't apply to anything pre-1980.  Thank god.  But hell, requiring a stock exhaust on a 1982?  Good luck.

Offline MRieck

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #594 on: May 27, 2022, 10:49:08 AM »
Also, went to get the bike inspected.  NY passed a new law with a perfectly fine intention - prevent people from obnoxious exhausts from riding on the street.  But the way it is worded no inspection station will pass a bike now without a totally stock exhaust (not even a slip-on on a new bike).  The dealer that I normally go to said that my exhaust wasn't stock.  I'm like, dude, you find me a fifty year old stock exhaust that isn't rusted out and I'll put it on.  Surely there is a grandfather clause for old bikes.  Went down the street to another dealer and they slapped a sticker on it.  Law doesn't apply to anything pre-1980.  Thank god.  But hell, requiring a stock exhaust on a 1982?  Good luck.
Just another reason to get out of that state. ;)
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #595 on: May 27, 2022, 12:54:42 PM »
I'm the machine specialist for the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider.  Can't go anywhere else on Earth and have that job...

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #596 on: May 27, 2022, 02:08:47 PM »
Hey tshrey,

Your bike has been duly re-nominated for BOTM.  Please post that you "accept" in the following thread to be eligible for voting:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180400.0.html
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #597 on: May 27, 2022, 03:57:15 PM »
Thanks.  You are a persistent man Don  :D

So after a couple hundred miles with stock carbs I had the confidence that the engine and everything connected to it is performing correctly and the motor should be broken in a little more.  I pulled the carbs and went back to the VM34 kit.  I don't know if it is more vacuum now from being broken in or maybe the exhaust with the baffle in it lowered the fueling requirement from the last time I tried, but this kit is so much quicker than stock carbs it is ridiculous and I don't have the stumbling off idle any more.  Maybe it is simply that I learned to drive an old bike and the need to be a little nicer with the throttle off idle (I don't think that is it, but who knows).  This thing is now what I would say actually qualifies as quick.  I did change the throttle cable routing from what the kit recommends and I think that genuinely helped.  The instructions want you to have the cables go up over the frame into the merge (throttle cable has a split coupling in it).  The idea is that they are able to float around and not bind.  My experience is that the coupling barely fits between the frame and the tank and would sometimes get stuck in a spot that pulled on the cables a little - you would come to a stop and have a 2500 rpm idle.  So I ran them like this:




The tying them together in the back and then tying that to the frame ensures slack at the carb end and the split coupling now lays in between the coils.  Everything is out of the way of the tank and gives a nice cable path to the bars.  The two carbs look great and are a lot simpler to work on than the stock system.




Also did some math and realized that my rear tire diameter is 1/2 inch smaller than stock; that won't help my rpm at highway speed.  Got a 120 rear in the garage that will go on and will also put on an 18 tooth front.  Right now 65 mph is 5400 rpm and I know you guys all say the engine is just getting going at that speed but it is just too frenetic.  I don't mind losing a little quickness stoplight to stoplight if I can get that down to 5000 rpm.

Stock carbs/plenum/3d printed adapter and K&N are going up for sale in the Sale section if anyone is interested.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2022, 01:36:00 PM by tshrey »

Offline wolf550

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #598 on: May 28, 2022, 08:34:03 AM »
will be keeping an eye out
74' CB550 (Sold)
71' CB500/550 (Sold)

Offline tshrey

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Re: 76 CB550 Cafe build
« Reply #599 on: May 29, 2022, 09:50:49 AM »
Spent some time in the garage yesterday and finally took care of the last part of the seat quick release.



After powdercoating and installing.