Author Topic: 76 CB550 Cafe build (Read 86025 times)

SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan · « **Reply #700 on:** June 23, 2022, 08:15:56 AM »

Quote from: tshrey on June 08, 2022, 09:44:46 AM

Switched out the clip ons to 1" woodcraft risers. Pretty amazing what that small difference does for wrist comfort.

Original clip ons for GSXR are in the for sale section if anyone is interested.

My Triumph Thruxton had similar ergos (not too aggressive rearsets and clipons with a small rise). Very comfy.

tshrey · « **Reply #701 on:** June 23, 2022, 09:28:41 AM »

I'm not thrilled with the Cognito rearsets and levers, I may machine my own using them as a template. Too far back, at least for my height (my daughter thinks I look a little silly on this bike with how small it is) and I really can't get over the way they make their lever arm tilt away from the bike. Makes it impossible to use the kickstarter. I contacted them about making me levers that were straight and they said they were too swamped to do anything like that. In theory they should fit my bike exactly the same way they fit their 550 project bike but I can't get even the 3/4 kick that they talk about using, it hits my levers.

wolf550 · « **Reply #702 on:** June 23, 2022, 01:33:51 PM »

That is why I made my own from the cognito template but didnt keep the buldge where the peg inserts into and with that I could use the 550 SS kickstart to clear.

tshrey · « **Reply #703 on:** June 23, 2022, 01:40:57 PM »

What did you do for levers? I think I could use the cognito mount if the lever was straight instead of tilted out by 15 degrees.

I think also the original version of the rearsets was 3/8" thick steel, that would probably help me but the damn things weighed a ton so I sent them back to get the aluminum ones.

wolf550 · « **Reply #704 on:** June 23, 2022, 06:31:51 PM »

the levers I used were from some chopper company. they have some allen bolt clamp they used.
Im pretty sure I used a 1/4 inch thick wood template when I cast the rearsets so they were less than that. they dont have all the holes used to make it look spiffy. able to handle all 215 lbs standing on them.

if there is anything specific about those cognito levers that work with the mounts or can you use a universal set.

ill get some pics to see if they help you figure something out

tshrey · « **Reply #705 on:** June 23, 2022, 06:34:51 PM »

The cognitive ones are just real purty. And I love the folding pegs.

I still need to track down that kickstart lever you posted on here many pages back. Once I have that I can see howuch I have to shave off of my current setup. Might be easiest to make thinner steel rearsets.

wolf550 · « **Reply #706 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:23:00 PM »

it is the 550 SS kickstart lever.
I think they were used due to the oem 4 in 1 exhaust is right up against the frame and you need like 2" to clear for the brake and kick lever.
I still have that one in storage I can send your way to get it started. you never know it may clear.

tshrey · « **Reply #707 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:25:36 PM »

Thanks for the offer, just grabbed on off fleabay this morning. Looking at you're measurements you posted a couple pages back just switching to that lever won't be enough, but if I make my own rearset mounts it looks like it just might clear.

wolf550 · « **Reply #708 on:** June 24, 2022, 08:50:25 PM »

sounds good
since you are going hydraulic on the pressure plates, why not go hydraulic on the rear also

tshrey · « **Reply #709 on:** June 25, 2022, 07:13:17 AM »

The rear brake actually works very well for such a simple setup. Going hydraulic adds weight, complexity and at this point costs a #$%* load of money. I'm trying to be done dumping cash into this.

If I could figure out a way to make this clutch as smooth and easy of a pull as my MT09 I wouldn't bother with the hydraulics, but I can't.

Also, why are these bikes so freaking loud? I had a 1000cc FZ1 with a single carbon canister muffler, no baffle, and it was about half the volume of this bike.

tshrey · « **Reply #710 on:** June 25, 2022, 08:26:48 PM »

Spent some time on the lathe today. I don't like the weird stock linkage on the rear brake, made my own two piece sleeve to put a heim joint on the actuator. Now just have to modify the rod with the new thread for the heim.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #711 on:** June 25, 2022, 08:41:56 PM »

subscribed

tshrey · « **Reply #712 on:** June 29, 2022, 02:04:50 PM »

Went for a ride, noticed over hard edges the sensation was still there in the steering head. WTF? I finally figured out what it was (the spacer being on top of the race definitely was one component, but apparently not all). The top triple hole for the stem is a tiny bit (.3mm maybe?) bigger than the stem. I usually don't torque the top nut down hard, never could understand what the point of it was. The point is to hold the top triple in place on the stem apparently. Tightened that up with a wrench and now no more sound at all.

Took some oil out, determined to figure out what is going on with the clutch and the stupidly hard pull. Everything inside the cover is set up correctly, but when I look at my clutch pack there are no gaps in it. It is totally full of clutch discs and steel. If I look at this video it is clear that there is a gap underneath the top (wider) clutch disc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS97OkyZENU

Maybe I have an extra plate or disc in there and it is preloading the springs? Looking later tonight.

tshrey · « **Reply #713 on:** June 29, 2022, 06:14:09 PM »

So I do have a gap in there, it just wasn't obvious because for some reason my clutch plates want to stick together a lot. I picked up a set of OEM springs, what was in there was definitely stiffer so I swapped them out. Still seems like way too hard of a pull. A spring scale says 17# to pull it. That seems to be a common measurement for people who say this is too hard, with 10# being more normal. But I'm really out of ideas at this point.

tshrey · « **Reply #714 on:** June 29, 2022, 07:18:24 PM »

Looking on another thread someone showed a 74-75 basket and all the fiber disc fingers are the same width. The 78's had a basket where the top (away from the engine) fiber disc had wider fingers on it and the basket had room for that. My basket is definitely the latter. Would that make some kind of a difference? Also, this is the way the mechanism is supposed to look on the cover, correct?

EDIT: little more research, it looks like the 550F baskets were what had the wider top slot for the last fiber disc. So apparently that is what is in my 550k engine.

tshrey · « **Reply #715 on:** June 30, 2022, 02:54:55 PM »

Pulled the alternator rotor off, made a little block off plate for the oil plug and then cleaned everything up to verify the oil is coming out of the crank seal. Sure enough it is.

But while the engine was running I was looking at the spinning crankshaft. Doesn't this seem like way too much vertical motion at the crank?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LoUYp3yM1kiyhAcU9

Godffery · « **Reply #716 on:** June 30, 2022, 07:16:17 PM »

Quote from: tshrey on June 30, 2022, 02:54:55 PM

Pulled the alternator rotor off, made a little block off plate for the oil plug and then cleaned everything up to verify the oil is coming out of the crank seal. Sure enough it is.

But while the engine was running I was looking at the spinning crankshaft. Doesn't this seem like way too much vertical motion at the crank?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LoUYp3yM1kiyhAcU9

Yeah, that seems a bit much.?! So that would point to worn main barrings or a bent crank!

tshrey · « **Reply #717 on:** June 30, 2022, 07:28:03 PM »

That would be on par for this build. I checked the bearings when I rebuilt the motor and they plastgauged to spec. But I also checked the runout on the very end of the crank when I did the upgrade to the modern rotor and that was crazy perfect. So either the crank is bent in such a way that the tip is perfect or my bearing measurements sucked.

After throwing wrenches around the garage earlier I just said ok and tore into it. Engine will come out of the frame in the morning...

Godffery · « **Reply #718 on:** July 01, 2022, 05:59:53 AM »

I wonder if the update to the modern rotor threw off the balance? I'm not sure if these cranks were originally balanced with the rotor in place, or separately?

tshrey · « **Reply #719 on:** July 01, 2022, 06:14:47 AM »

The fact that the rotor/crankshaft isn't keyed I think would prevent that from being the case. Unless you need that stupid hunk of metal hanging there as a damper of some sort.

Eh, at this point what the hell do I know?

tshrey · « **Reply #720 on:** July 01, 2022, 08:07:09 AM »

Getting ready to pull motor, figured I would make it as light as possible so I pulled the sleeves off. This seems... terrible.

I will obviously recheck (and it seems like replace) the bearings, but would just bad bearings do that or did my machinist makes the bores too big when I went with the larger pistons? Are those pistons ok to still use?

The sleeves still have the hone in them, even where the pistons were scuffing.

On the upside I'm pretty much positive that was the buzzing I was hearing that I thought originated from the valvetrain. So that mystery is at least solved.

tshrey · « **Reply #721 on:** July 01, 2022, 10:48:56 AM »

Engine is out and I'm disassembling it. First thing I notice is that every bolt holding the cases together, little guys and the big ones around the crank, backed off stupidly easy. Like single digit foot pounds easy. No wonder I had slight weeping between the case halves in some places; one of them was finger tight. I torqued every bolt to spec when I built this, but I'm wondering if using the snazzy stainless bolts screwed me up because you have to use a non-galling compound when you put them into aluminum.

@calj737 when you build motors like this do you raise the torque setting by a percentage to make up for the extra lubrication of the compound?

calj737 · « **Reply #722 on:** July 01, 2022, 11:57:57 AM »

Nope. But I use a very expensive torque wrench that compensates for it. It is possible your threads are damaged and didn’t hold the bolt. Possibly a bit less likely.

tshrey · « **Reply #723 on:** July 01, 2022, 03:04:36 PM »

I don't get what that means - torque is torque. If it has a setting for 'galling compound applied' then it is adding some percentage to its setting before it stops at the given torque. I just checked every thread in the case, they are all good. I think I need to add a little extra and then after a heat cycle go back and retorque all of them. Have to look up what that 'extra' is though.

I don't have a tool for measuring the inner bore of the case bearing mounts, so I ordered that. Can't select bearings until I get that measurement. The crankshaft runout is less than .0001 when I put it on v blocks and the surfaces that run in the bearings are smooth and measure to spec so at least my crankshaft is good.

EDIT: I just saw in a youtube video that the letters stamped on the back of the lower case are the bore sizes, so that lets me order the bearings now without having to measure.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #724 on:** July 01, 2022, 03:33:29 PM »

Quote from: tshrey on July 01, 2022, 03:04:36 PM

I don't get what that means - torque is torque. If it has a setting for 'galling compound applied' then it is adding some percentage to its setting before it stops at the given torque. I just checked every thread in the case, they are all good. I think I need to add a little extra and then after a heat cycle go back and retorque all of them. Have to look up what that 'extra' is though.

I don't have a tool for measuring the inner bore of the case bearing mounts, so I ordered that. Can't select bearings until I get that measurement. The crankshaft runout is less than .0001 when I put it on v blocks and the surfaces that run in the bearings are smooth and measure to spec so at least my crankshaft is good.

I personally use anti-seize compound or a 'thread lubricant'? very sparingly,mainly because it's easy to overtorque a fastener with that lubricant on the threads.I Do use some,just enough to get the threads operating smoothly;after I've applied the small amount I'm pleased with to the threads,I thread the matching bolt/nut parts up and down until the coating is on the threads evenly.

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Author Topic: 76 CB550 Cafe build (Read 86025 times)