Topic: slap-un-happy

[Klark Kent]

would poor alignment or chain adjustment cause a slap slap slap on deceleration?  no noise or problems acceleratin, but jus as i am about to put my foot down most times i decelerate it slaps to a stop.  i am assuming this is the drive chain, but even that is hard to say for sure as i cant get a good look down there while i am stopping. 
thanks for help
-KK

[Klark Kent]

so 51 views and not even a baby-bump?

someone has got to have a clue about this sound, and not to seem impatient, but maybe i could have described it better.  if there is something i am leaving out try and ask me questions that will help you understand the problem, but all i know is when i come to a complete stop, during the last few revolutions of the wheels i hear/feel something that i imagine to be the drive chain slapping or chugging against or over something.  this happens whether i use th efront or rear brake and if i stand on the pegs to get the weight off the seat.  i tightened the chain to tolerance and it made no difference.  i am at a loss to diagnose something i cant actually recreate unless i am riding.  so - again - i needle you for input. 


ANY of this sound familiar?
-KK

[dusterdude]

dude,i dont have any idea where to start on this

[mlinder]

dude,i dont have any idea where to start on this

Same here, which is why I didn't post anything.

[petercb750]

Are you stopping with the bike in gear and clutch pulled in? If the clutch needs adjustment, or not fully releasing, it may be dragging and causing the noise you hear (happens on wife's 400, and requires a new realease bearing thingo). Try stopping in neutral and see if it still does it.

If not that, does the noise correspond to one revolution of the wheel or chain - eg, how many "slaps" do you get over a set distance?

Peter

[Klark Kent]

thanks peter (and the headscratchers too at least that keeps it at the top)-

i am about to ride to the bank and i will check the neutral situation.  as far as the corresponding revolver i would guess the sprocket, but i will pay some attention to that as well.

i should report back in a short while
-KK

[Klark Kent]

I think i have isolated it further.  at first i couldnt get it to do it (of course) and then i stopped trying to and realized it happens when i do the 5 second freeze at a stop sign, so clutch pulled in, tranny in first, i come to a balancing stop and as it comes to halt, chug chug chug.  i tried doing this in neutral and it didnt happen so i am now suspecting the clutch.  it seems well adjusted, as in it allows me to transfer power smoothly and comfortably, only causing concern on these pregnant stops... can you go into more detail about the release bearing thingo, as this seems to be my problem?

thanks
-KK

[sirg]

Place the bike on the center stand and spin the back wheel. Are there any tight spots in the chain when you spin it?
 SG

[bwaller]

Could it be your clutch is dragging slightly? When you're at rest in first gear is it tough to click it up into neutral?

[kettlesd]

Sounds to me like a dragging clutch too. Check your adjustment for free play. Cable stretched or warped clutch plates possibly?

[petercb750]

well I think we've hit on it KK - do what Wykydtron suggests, or refer to the manual. It ain't chain or sprockets, cos you stopped it from happening when you coasted in neutral.
My wife's 400 has a triangular thingo with 3 ball bearings in it, and I think it is referred to as a "release bearing" or similar. Don't know if your model has the same thing - you can check in the parts manuals listed elsewhere on this site.
But I reckon a proper adjustment at the engine end of the clutch cable might just fix the problem, or at worst new plates. Not a big or very expensive job.
Keep us informed.
Peter.

[kghost]

Sounds like a bad link to me.

Sometimes they only do it under tension of engine compression braking.

[Klark Kent]

  thanks for all the feedback

i just went out and checked, and my dot and dash line up on the clutch cover/arm.  i did notice that the clutch might be a little harder to pull than intended.  worn cable?  i also checked out the fiche and it seems that i do have a spring loaded lifter do-thing-a-ma-hootie-hoo.  i got a new clutch cable a while back because the one from PO looked a 'bit tatty' as you pommies like to say, so i will swap that at my earliest inconvenience, but find it hard to believe this will solve my "dragging clutch."  so my question now is, when i take the clutch cover offf what should i look for?  it is time to go in there isnt it?

its like having the a-team bookmarked.  thanks for all the expertise.
-KK

ps- no fighting over who gets to be murdock

[Klark Kent]

Sounds like a bad link to me.

Sometimes they only do it under tension of engine compression braking.

this sounds like code of some sort.  i do engine brake a whole lot.  what are you trying to tell me here?
tell me more about this "bad link" of which you speak, pilot.
-KK

[kghost]

Basically a bad link means just that.

One of the links in your chain has a problem. It might be the roller on the link. It might be the Side plates are loose, worn or bent.

What it does is under the load of engine braking ( allowing the drag of compression to slow the bike with the throttle closed) the link hangs up on the sprocket just enough to make the slapping sound you describe.

[Klark Kent]

ahh,
thanks for explaining that.  i was thinking maybe a link in the clutch system or a link in my brain.  i dont think that is the issue, as the problem occurs only after i have pulled the clutch in and coasted to a stop, then just before complete stop i get the chug.  i am going to double check for tight/loose irregularities, but i dont think this is a bad link.
thanks
-KK

[TwoTired]

Here is a punch list to isolate your problem/noise.

- Check for hardened/lumpy chain lube making the chain stick to sprockets so they don't lay on/lay off smoothly.  (Makes chain snap)

- Check for chain tension irregularities.
On center stand, preferably with chain warm and well lubed, rotate the rear wheel (in neutral) and check for chain deflection every 2 inches of travel.  A new chain, new and true sprockets will give the same deflection fom master link to master link.  How much deflection variance do you measure.  (Clean hands before typing.)

- Look for missing rollers on drive chain.

- Make sure you adjust for minimum chain deflection while the rider's weight is on the swingarm.  Swing arm position changes effect chain tightness.

- nice to know:
Brand of chain and sprockets.  Age/ mileage

- There is a chain guard/guide for the front sprocket in the sprocket cover.  I've seen these crack at the mountings on one end, which puts it closer to the chain on the sprocket.  Then, if the chain/sprocket are worn and/or the chain rollers don't lay evenly in the sprocket valleys, it rides out on the tooth and hits the guard/guide, causing a noise.  Grinding/ringing type, as I recall.

- Can you see marks on the big chain guard where the chain is slapping?

You're gonna have to get in there, clean, inspect, lube, and adjust.

Cheers,

[kghost]

Good post tewotired nice to see you back

KK I'm still betting on a bad link in the chain...even coasting you can get that noise with a bad link. See twotired's post above.

[Klark Kent]

thanks lloyd-
i appreciate you dropping in to save the day (again)
i have printed out your punch list and will be following it tomorrow as i have already run out of daylight today.  will post my results.

KG- the reference to the clutch pulled in was that it was not happening during engine braking, but you are right- that doesnt mean i dont have a bad link.  hopefully, with TTs list, i will get to the bottom of it tomorrow and get back to happily freezing my ass off without mechnical worry.

by the way TT, you can be murdock if you want to- i think you have earned that much.
-KK

[Klark Kent]

looks like it is a bad chain.
some areas are much more deflective than others. 
the sprocket cover guide thingy looks fine, not a horrible amount of chain poo.

New chain and sprocket inspection on the way.
-KK

EDIT:  after an exhaustive 15 minute search it seems that i will not be able to discern if the sprockets are in good enough shape to risk a new chain over.  wwould tintin's list (minus the shocks) here work for a 550k1 (it was in response to someone with a K4), and what about a good source for the 520 sprockets and 520 o ringer?

[Hop on a Honda]

Sounds to me like a dragging clutch too. Check your adjustment for free play. Cable stretched or warped clutch plates possibly?

I'll CC the above.
Chain may be loose too.
Dave