Topic: Confessions of an ex-cap screw fan

[eigenvector]

My winter project is tearing down a bike that I, well...., I messed up.

What I'm finding over and over, from years of carrying tools for on-road fixes, organizing my tool box, etc, is that my love affair of cap screws was misplaced.  I loved those things because they were typically button heads, low profile, easy to install, and looked reasonably snazzy.  Looks ain't everything.

At the very least I have to carry 2 or 3 sizes just to undo the various bolts that hold things together and that takes up valuable real-estate in the tool bag.  While I'm not a fan of Philips head screws when they get old and frozen, at least I can carry 1 driver and remove all sizes even those annoying JIS heads.  I can carry 3 1/4" sockets (6mm, 8, 10) and deal with 90% of the bolts that aren't Philips.

I think I'm going to make it my mission to do it right this time, replace those annoying cap screws with proper Philips pan heads, washer head bolts and do myself a favor.

[MikeSimon]

The key with the cross-slot screws of any design in our Jap bikes is to own a JIS screwdriver set. But.... in spite of this, I have replaced almost all cap screw slot-cross on most of my bikes with allen head cap screws or socket heads (carb bowls and engine covers)

[754]

Just carry 1 inch sections of the allen wrenches needed, plus the  sockets to fit them..all bases covered.

[calj737]

 I would think your issue with differing sized Allen keys is sourcing your socket heads from different sources. There's lots of places to get a set, or piece by piece. The piece by piece method trends to yield vastly different Allen key sizes.

On a motor I have, using ARP 12-pts, there's 2 sizes in total. On my 550, socket heads are all the same size (for 6mm). If you have 6/8/10&12mm bolts, the caps will be different, just like hex heads.

[eigenvector]

Absolutely that's a big part of it.

Regardless, you only need one Philips head screwdriver to remove them all (okay most of them).  What you trade off is gripping power of the screw.

I think the real lesson for me is to simply get a single set of fasteners for the case - no more picking and choosing, mixing and matching.  Stay away from the weird stuff - like Torx, and stay with something I can work with in a pinch.

[seanbarney41]

how often is it really gonna do any good to be pullin' apart your cases on the side of the road? ...or even in a motel parking lot?  Maybe just worry about the points cover.

[calj737]

how often is it really gonna do any good to be pullin' apart your cases on the side of the road? ...or even in a motel parking lot?  Maybe just worry about the points cover.

And really, a single Allen multi-key wrench is smaller than a Phillips screwdriver...

[Bodi]

I think the 4 or 5 keys needed would take up less room than a screwdriver, but that screwdriver would still be needed unless you convert every screw on the bike...
I like metric cap screws, the key size is the screw size... a 6mm cap screw uses a 6mm key. I don'use button heads for the cases, the smaller key size in softish SS can strip fairly easily. I have had to put heavy torque on case screws to break them loose after a couple of years unmolested. I carry a 6mm key plus an Ikea 6mm Z key, a smaller one for smaller screws (can not recall where) and a really small one fot the carb bowl cap screws.
Yes it's rare to use the toolbox on the side of the road but when necessary the tools make the difference between a delay and a disaster with tow truck and cancelled trip.

[Trevor from Warragul]

I have had to put heavy torque on case screws to break them loose after a couple of years unmolested.

On my bikes, every single screw gets a coating of copper grease.

Handy hint - buy a good quality artist brush with a 1/2 inch flat head.  Use it to brush the grease into the threads.

[RAFster122s]

I do not like the copper antisieze grease, had it setup hard on a head I replacecd and it was not fun getting the bolts free later.  I much prefer the silver colored aluminum based stuff, especially for aluminum motors.

[eigenvector]

If it weren't for the problem of galling - I'd only use aluminum bolts and screws, otherwise there's only so much you can do when you have an aluminum head and a steel bolt.  I suppose one way to fix that, and perhaps this is how Harley does it now - is oversize the hole and use a Time-Sert or similar thread device.

[Powderman]

Absolutely that's a big part of it.

Regardless, you only need one Philips head screwdriver to remove them all (okay most of them).  What you trade off is gripping power of the screw.

I think the real lesson for me is to simply get a single set of fasteners for the case - no more picking and choosing, mixing and matching.  Stay away from the weird stuff - like Torx, and stay with something I can work with in a pinch.

There are few in any "phillips head" screws on a JDM bike. They use a JIS head that is different than a  phillips. If you see a bunch of buggered screws on the bike it is likely from using a phillips screwdriver on JIS screws.

[eigenvector]

Of course they're messed up, but that's only because no one can tell the difference between a JIS and Philips head screw unless they know the intricacies of fastener design or even care for that matter.
"Ah, how foolish of me, how could I have missed that pinhead sized dot?  I just assumed it was a blob of grease on this Philips head screw."