Author Topic: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions  (Read 1889 times)

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Offline ekpent

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Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« on: December 28, 2016, 04:27:32 PM »
  Working on a K6 and the PO had taken all the components apart on the clutch, alternator cover etc. possibly to polish the metal maybe. Anyhoo as these pieces have sat in a box from his place and also mine for some time they are quite dirty and grimy and need cleaning before reassembly. I have a couple different ideas for cleaning these parts but want to hear some suggestions from someone who has already done it in a safe method as to do no harm.  Thanks in advance folks.  Eric

Offline b52bombardier1

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 04:33:50 PM »
Before you polish up a shorted out stator, does it pass all continuity and resistance tests from the shop manual? Are the connectors clean and tight?

  After that, I'd blow it clean with compressed air and move on with the restoration.

Rick
1971 School Bus Yellow Aermacchi H-D Sprint 350
1972 Candy Yellow CL100 K2
1972 Candy Jet Green Honda CB500
1973 Mighty Green ST90 K0
1974 Mars Orange CT90 K5
1975 Topaz Orange ST90 K2
1976 Shiny Orange CT90
2006 Honda Foreman 500 (restored)

Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 04:37:30 PM »
 Have not done any testing Rick, not my strong suite but sure its not too difficult.  I have other alternators but want to try and save this one, the case is very nice.

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 05:17:14 PM »
maybe a dip in vinegar?
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 05:26:24 PM »
 A lot of what looks like rust is more of an oily film and varnish with dirt grit though there is some rust I am sure. I am thinking of starting by wiping it down gently with a rag lightly soaked  with some lacquer thinner as it evaporates very quickly and cleans well  being careful not to let it sit too long on any of the epoxy and then carefully address and bad rust. Don't think it has to look like new to still function well. Probably the less messing with it the better.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 05:40:26 PM by ekpent »

Offline scottly

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 05:59:24 PM »
Don't use lacquer thinner, as it may damage the insulating varnish! You only need to remove any loose grit to keep it out of the oil; I wouldn't use anything stronger than WD 40. Surface rust isn't an issue.
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 06:05:43 PM »
Don't use lacquer thinner, as it may damage the insulating varnish! You only need to remove any loose grit to keep it out of the oil; I wouldn't use anything stronger than WD 40. Surface rust isn't an issue.

+1

Lacquer thinner could very well damage the protective varnish on the stator beyond repair. A little WD, easy on the compressed air, then put it back together before you drop it and physically damage it. It is exposed to hot engine oil and is never seen when in use. It is happy to be less than visually appealing, it just has to work.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
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"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
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Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
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Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
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Offline antleo

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 08:13:26 PM »
Soak it in some motor oil then wipe it down with a rag or nylon brush. It works surprisingly well.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 08:52:27 PM »
 Advice taken gents and will keep the lacquer thinner away. I like the idea of a WD40 rinse just to get the dirt and particulates off.

Offline pjlogue

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 02:38:47 AM »
I would be wary of even using WD40.  The 40 year old formvar on the wires is old, brittle and delicate.  Compressed air is the safest bet.  Getting any dirt off is an aesthetic rather than function gain.  It does not come in contact with any mating parts so wear isn't an issue.  I would do as others suggested and use a Ohm meter and make sure the windings are spec and then button it up.  When I rebuilt my '76 750 I carefully removed the windings and put them to the side when I redid the alt. cover.  I didn't even wipe down the coils.  The less handling of the windings the better.

-P.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 07:05:15 AM »
 Sounds like the less I do to it  the better it will be.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2016, 08:33:51 AM »
Sounds like the less I do to it  the better it will be.

The best thing you can do is replace those knarly, crusty old connectors with some new connectors from Vintage Connections. Be sure to get the right size (the smaller one) since they have two sizes. Splurge for the crimp tool too, looks like a factory connection when done right. Cut the old insulator off the connector first then cut the wire right at the connector. You only lose 1/4" in length that way. You should replace the companion male bullet alternator connectors on the harness while you're at it:


I highly recommend the proper crimp tool. Here is a copy of my post from another thread, ironically titled "Electrical Connectors":



Strip it. I usually strip about a 1/4" to 5/16". Three-eights is a bit much and not necessary:






Don't forget the insulator! (ask me how I know):




I finally figured out (after about three tries) that it's easier to load the connector in the crimp tool first. Note the stepped jaw. The trailing end has a higher relief so as not to over crimp the insulation:




Ratchet down on it just enough to hold it:






You only need about a 1/4" of insulation extended into the connector. Too much and you get into the part of the crimp that should be catching wire only. The jaws are pretty wide and hard to see inside, so I use my thumbnail as a guide when inserting the wire:






Crimp it!:




Voila' (as opposed to "Viola" which everyone knows is a musical instrument):




And finally, the insulator:




Procedure is the same for other types of connectors, just be sure to use the right insulator. Here we have the insulator for the female bullet:




Load the tool:




Crimp it... crimp it real good... and voila'! (as opposed to "viola" which everyone knows is a musical instrument):




Slide the insulator into place:




Dang! This is how they must of looked when the bike was new!:






Give the wire a tug when you're done. Occasionally I will get a loose crimp, but most of the time it is a result of smaller gauge wire. In those cases I will strip 1/2" of insulation and double the wire back on itself to mimic a heavier gauge wire. These are my go-to connectors for all things automotive.  8)


If you are thinking about using the "dime store" single crimp connectors then I would suggest just leaving the original connectors and cleaning them well prior to reinstalling the alternator.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 08:35:36 AM by madmtnmotors »
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
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Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
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Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2016, 08:59:05 AM »
 If I remember correctly I have read your thread. Was that the one where you went through the whole wiring harness offering tips on how to take the plugs apart for refurbishing etc. ?

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2016, 09:13:25 AM »
If I remember correctly I have read your thread. Was that the one where you went through the whole wiring harness offering tips on how to take the plugs apart for refurbishing etc. ?

I did indeed do a write up about refurbishing the entire harness, which was a different thread than the one I quoted above. Both threads are linked in my signature. Past experience chasing electrical gremlins motivated me to yank the harness and clean it up each time I start a new build (three so far). The two weeks it takes me to do an entire harness has surely saved me countless hours looking for otherwise loose/corroded/damaged connectors. This also helps eliminate most of the wiring as the culprit when a component or circuit fails and makes future electrical issues much easier to troubleshoot. Besides, I'm the patient type!   8)
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline strynboen

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2016, 09:58:54 AM »
  Working on a K6 and the PO had taken all the components apart on the clutch, alternator cover etc. possibly to polish the metal maybe. Anyhoo as these pieces have sat in a box from his place and also mine for some time they are quite dirty and grimy and need cleaning before reassembly. I have a couple different ideas for cleaning these parts but want to hear some suggestions from someone who has already done it in a safe method as to do no harm.  Thanks in advance folks.  Eric
..dont lay anything at the copper vindings,,as you do onthe first Photo...the lauqer vill brake open..and can short up the Windings..or korosion creap under the lacking..if it are broken open for damp and air
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
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Offline b52bombardier1

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
The main thing for me when rebuilding connectors is that they can LOOK so good with perfect insulation yet be down to as little as one good strand of copper wire inside the insulation. This one good strand will pass a continuity check easily but will be a high resistance connection that will drive you nuts trying to figure it out.

Rick
1971 School Bus Yellow Aermacchi H-D Sprint 350
1972 Candy Yellow CL100 K2
1972 Candy Jet Green Honda CB500
1973 Mighty Green ST90 K0
1974 Mars Orange CT90 K5
1975 Topaz Orange ST90 K2
1976 Shiny Orange CT90
2006 Honda Foreman 500 (restored)

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 10:14:09 AM »
Me, I'd leave it alone but if I did want to clean it up I'd use my parts washer which has kerosene and a softer nylon brush then blow it dry.

Wilbur is on the money about replacing the 3 connectors on the harness. Just be careful as there isn't much extra length to work with. Get it right the first time. Most of those are damaged from the heat/resistance. PLUS he did a helluva write up!
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline ekpent

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2016, 05:26:16 AM »
  Working on a K6 and the PO had taken all the components apart on the clutch, alternator cover etc. possibly to polish the metal maybe. Anyhoo as these pieces have sat in a box from his place and also mine for some time they are quite dirty and grimy and need cleaning before reassembly. I have a couple different ideas for cleaning these parts but want to hear some suggestions from someone who has already done it in a safe method as to do no harm.  Thanks in advance folks.  Eric
..dont lay anything at the copper vindings,,as you do onthe first Photo...the lauqer vill brake open..and can short up the Windings..or korosion creap under the lacking..if it are broken open for damp and air
I propped it up there to show a better picture of the side of the winding but will try to be very careful with it. Hopefully the time it spent in a couple of different boxes and its time with the PO did not damage the coating. Will handle with kid gloves.
PS- Stringbean your writing is get very good !!   ;)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 09:04:30 AM by ekpent »

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 06:13:48 AM »
Hopefully the time it spent in a couple of different boxes and its time with the PO did not damage the coating. Will handle with kid gloves.

I was thinking the same thing.  :-\
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
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Re: Cleaning 750 alternater suggestions
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 09:06:00 AM »
 Like most of us here we always got more parts in reserve if needed  ;)