Topic: 550 cam chain prob.

[BomberMann650]

I know I'm a cow and I smoke a lot of grass, but guys, It's been a reliable trick for me.

That clears things up 

Hey, I'm not doubting you, I only say I've never heard of it. And I'm willing to measure one up to verify or clarify. 

I would be interested in some empirical science too 😃 - I don't have a crank out of the case to examine.  Just the trick I've used to take chains off and on.

Oh, and grassy teas arent that bad either 😂

[DaveBarbier]

I know I'm a cow and I smoke a lot of grass, but guys, It's been a reliable trick for me.

That clears things up 

Hey, I'm not doubting you, I only say I've never heard of it. And I'm willing to measure one up to verify or clarify. 

I would be interested in some empirical science too - I don't have a crank out of the case to examine.  Just the trick I've used to take chains off and on.

Oh, and grassy teas arent that bad either

I think you're off your rocker! Haha

You've used this trick on two engines only? I'm going with you set it to 15° and it worked once so you thought it was the setting to 15° that did it and not the fact that you probably just got the right leverage.

"You would be interested in some empirical science..."? You damn well better be interested in some empirical science!!! What, are we just supposed to believe your sweet talkin'?

I don't see Honda or any manufacturer adding this strange feature just to make it easy to put the cam chain on considering it would probably drastically reduce the life of the chain and/or cam.

I'm a little hyped up if you can't tell I've been playing the Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes game. That gets my heart racing.

[BomberMann650]

Okay, so after a bit of dicking about with my parts motor.  I'm gonna have to chock up my method of installing the cam chain to dumb luck and +1 calj's method (which is also described in the clymer manual)
Even sans gaskets, tensioner, and guide, I couldn't convince the chain to move about in the mythical sweet spot.  Much binding and such making it difficult to turn the motor. 
The stars must have been in some pisces ascending saturn rises alignment when I did my last cam swap.
Oh moo...sad moo.

[calj737]

Okay, so after a bit of dicking about with my parts motor.  I'm gonna have to chock up my method of installing the cam chain to dumb luck and +1 calj's method (which is also described in the clymer manual)
Even sans gaskets, tensioner, and guide, I couldn't convince the chain to move about in the mythical sweet spot.  Much binding and such making it difficult to turn the motor. 
The stars must have been in some pisces ascending saturn rises alignment when I did my last cam swap.
Oh moo...sad moo.

Don't fret, Bombs, Xmas is right around the corned and Santa's been watching. He knows you've been good so he'll bring you plenty of grass to smoke in your stocking! 

[BomberMann650]

Oh moo...sad moo

Don't fret, Bombs, Xmas is right around the corned and Santa's been watching. He knows you've been good so he'll bring you plenty of grass to smoke in your stocking! 

That a$$hole never shares the cookies.

[RAFster122s]

Bomber, have to make enough for you too...
you are risking the naughty list calling Santa such words, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? 

[BomberMann650]

Bomber, have to make enough for you too...
you are risking the naughty list calling Santa such words, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? 

I wouldn't mind being on the naughty list if it meant being with the gals on BobbyR's thread 

[Killer Canary]

This might sound like a stupid question but I must: do all year of Honda 550 fours use the same length cam chain?

[calj737]

To my knowledge, yes.

[Killer Canary]

The chain they sent me is too facking short.

[calj737]

Is to "just a little bit" too short? Such that, you can't lift it over the sprocket with the sprocket bolted in place? If so, your sequence for installing the chain is wrong.

Slide the cam through the chain. Tensioner fully loosened. Pass the sprocket over the cam. Lift the chain and slip the sprocket under the chain. Then raise the sprocket into place.

Lifting the chain over the sprocket puts a lateral "kink" in the chain, making it about 1.5 links too short.

[Killer Canary]

Understood.
As an experiment, I fit the sprocket to the chain without the cam (or tensioner!) installed and the sprocket opening is visually well below the journals.
The chain will have to do a lot of stretching to fit.
Pictures tomorrow.

[RAFster122s]

Where did you buy your chain?

[Killer Canary]

I don't remember. I've been gathering parts together for a few years now.
It was a cheapo though.
I should have re-used the old chain; it used to install with no fuss.

[Killer Canary]

Not a hope in heck.

[calj737]

It "looks" short. But slip the cam through the chain, then slide the sprocket over the cam. Is the chain properly seated on the crank and cam guide?

[Killer Canary]

Already did that.
It was a fight to get the chain onto the sprocket, excessive force might get the sprocket onto the cam.
If all is well, no force is required.
You mentioned that earlier and that's been my experience with previous rebuilds.
Are you saying that installing a new chain does require force, and is no longer a slip fit?
How much force have you needed to use when installing a new chain?
Did the journals stand up to the pressure?

[calj737]

I am defintely NOT saying force is needed. But, if you lift the chain over the sprocket when the sprocket is already in the cam mounting side, the chain is "bent" and won't get there.

The picture you show represents a different issue (as the cam is not even installed and the chain appears too short) but I was simply restating the earlier post to insure you used the proper sequence, and tested the chain install.

[Killer Canary]

I appreciate your clarity Cal.
I had the cases split to replace the primary chain, add 650 tensioner, clean/paint,
etc so I replaced the cam chain while I was at it.
None of this was supposed to happen!
I replaced seals in the head several years ago, re-installing the old chain and everything slipped together like it was supposed to.
I sure didn't foresee anything like this.
I'll have to go with a rivet chain, which was what I didn't want in the first place, so that I won't have to split the cases again.

[calj737]

So, I have no experience with the 650 tensioner swap, but I Know Brent (bwaller) has. Best to give him a nudge and get insight from him about whether a difference chain is required, or chain length.

I would "think" that as long as the sprockets are not different, than the chain would remain stock. But that is my speculation. 

[Killer Canary]

I fixed the cases for a 650 primary tensioner.
Cam chain tensioner remains stock 550.

[BomberMann650]

I fixed the cases for a 650 primary tensioner.
Cam chain tensioner remains stock 550.

I was really considering the primary tensioner mod too.  Was it simple enough to accomplish?

[Killer Canary]

Basic measuring and fabbing skills.
I used a milling machine because I have access to one, not a necessity though.
I welded a foot long extension to a drill bit to facilitate clearing the case when drilling the external mounting holes.
That's about it.
I also machined an aluminum extension for the oil pump pickup so that I could retain the stock 550 item.
I was going great guns until this chain horses**t stopped me dead in my tracks.

[Killer Canary]

Don't be a jackass like yours truly.
Install the chain guide facing forward and not backward.