Topic: Honda CB550 Wiring Starter Question

[vintage@5280]

Hi,

I'm redoing the switches on my CB550 and I have everything working as it should except the starter button.  I bought a repo switch from 4into1 and the starter won't work.  If I run a jumper from the Y/R wire to the black power wire on the harness I get complete turn over and it works just fine. 

Few things, I'm using anodized clip-ons so I'm not getting ground to the switch.  I did run a jumper from the switch to a good ground and it still won't work.  I had to do that with the clutch side switch to get the horn to work, so no problem, easy enough to run a ground wire. 

If someone can tell me what I'm missing I would appreciate it.  The switch lines up with all the wires in my harness.  The only one that puzzles me to this day is the Black/Red wire?  It's not on any of the wiring diagrams from the manual to the ones I find online???  Thanks again.  My thought is bad switch.  I run the black wire from the switch and the Y/R and G/R to the switch which are both connected to the started solenoid.  I should be going, but nothing happens, dead.

Thanks,
J

[lrutt]

So you have the y/r from the solenoid going to the switch then a wired from the switch to ground, correct? And you have a power line running to the black wire.

[Smudgemo]

I just rebuilt two starter switches from '76 550s, and there were five wires.  The two long black & black/white (I think) were for the kill switch.  The shorter three were yellow/red, black/red and black.  The black was the switched hot, yellow/red the starter and black/red was the headlight.  The black/red should always be energized when the key is on and the button at rest.  When you push the start button, the black/red is disengaged and the yellow/red engaged (to shut off the headlight and energize the starter.)

If you want to test the replacement switch, hook your multimeter black to to black and red to black/red.  It should be showing continuity until you push the button.  Continuity comes back when you release it.  Now hook the red probe to the yellow/red.  There should be no continuity until you push the button, and only while it's pushed.  If it doesn't act that way and is supposed to be a replacement, you might have a bad switch or maybe a bad connection somewhere.

You can see what I did in the links below.  My 5th grader did the video editing, so be kind.

[Fritz]

Hi,

If I run a jumper from the Y/R wire to the black power wire on the harness I get complete turn over and it works just fine. 

That's good. So your solenoid is working - and you know that BLACK is +12V and NOT GROUND, as many people think

Few things, I'm using anodized clip-ons so I'm not getting ground to the switch.

According to the wiring diagram, you don't need no ground connection to the right hand side switch. Ground is green wire on these old Hondas.

I had to do that with the clutch side switch to get the horn to work

Yes, the horn is one of the few devices where the ground "leg" of the circuit is switched to the frame. However, the clutch switch should have a green ground wire running to it.

The only one that puzzles me to this day is the Black/Red wire?  It's not on any of the wiring diagrams from the manual to the ones I find online???

I have found it in the Workshop Service Manual, page 169:
http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb550/ (download "CB550F Addendum")

My bike is a 1977 CB550F (German model) that does not have the black/red wire in the harness. It looks like there were some differences between models. On those that have it, g/r is connected to headlight power. So the headlight is temporarily switched off when you hit the starter button.

If you do not have the black/red wire in the harness, you'll be fine without it. The starter button should short black to black/red when released and it should short black to yellow/red when it is pressed. So judging from your first first statement (shorting black to y/r on the harness turns the starter) everything should be fine when you connect these wire to your new switch.

So:

My thought is bad switch.

is quite posible. Test continuity between black and y/r when you press the starter button.

  I run the [..] G/R to the switch [..] connected to the started solenoid.

G/R is the clutch switch. When pulling the clutch, it should connect to ground (green).

I would test the following with a multimeter or a simple test light:

- Pull black and y/r from the starter button and test continuity of the button when pressed.
- Leave green wire on clutch switch and pull g/r from it. Test continuity between g/r and some blank spot on the frame while pulling the clutch
- See if the neutral light comes on

But since you say that your solenoid is working the last two issues should be all right.

Cheers
Carsten

[vintage@5280]

Well, I got it to work, but the run / off switch doesn't properly function.  I will give you the run down.

This was a cafe build that I took over and the wiring is changed in the back.  I pulled the little two prong thing and it wouldn't start at all.  I than went back and replaced it and the starter solenoid worked.  I wanted to verify it was actually doing what it should.

I tried pulling the green / red wire and grounding it and that did nothing for me.  I have an aftermarket clutch and it doesn't have the wire switch running from it.  So, the g/r is doing nothing, other than it's hooked up to the solenoid as well as the y/r.

I than thought to myself, what wires are connected to the starter button (g/r and y/r in the repo switch).  I took the g/r and went directly to the black power.  I than went y/r to y/r and the starter switch worked.  I know this isn't 100% correct because the round kill switch on top won't work.  Whether it's in the off or run position it still will fire.  I can see the SSM unit was removed from the bike.  I think I need to spend some time thinking this through to figure out how to make the run / off switch operate properly.  Now that I know the b/r is the headlight kill when the starter fires up, I can check that when I install the headlight (already did a test run, but starter button wasn't working).  I can clearly see the b & b/w wire coming from the run / off top and the br/w and b/r coming from the on/off headlight switch (which I will test when I get the headlight installed).

I'm fighting the usual PO #$%*, where you don't know what they did.  I can't figure out why he has the r/g and y/g hooked up to the solenoid together, must be overriding the SSM unit that has disappeared.  The switch should still operate correctly with the b/w and b being hooked up correctly?  It's frustrating because everything is lining up for the most part off the harness and the wiring diagram. 

One down, one more to solve.  Any suggestions, let me know.

Thanks,

[vintage@5280]

Also, it's a 1976 CB550K.  Sorry, I know better than to not post that.

Thanks

[calj737]

Fritz gave you all the correct info. STOP connecting G/R to Black! Black on these bikes is power, G/R is routed to ground.

What is confusing you is the reduction of the clutch safety switch and the SSM. You want the SSM, you don't need the clutch safety switch. Have you looked at the stock wiring diagram? It's pretty straight forward.

Ignore the BLK/RED wire to your RH control. Solid Black to RH is power. It is jumpered to BLK/WHT to power your coils thru RUN/STOP. It is also feeding the Y/R thru START and runs to the solenoid. The G/R at the solenoid simply needs to be attached to ground, or a grounded connection (like the NEU wire).

If you do connect the solenoid G/R to NEU switch wire, then your bike will only start in NEU, not a good thing. That's where the clutch switch intervenes... so take the G/R and tie to your chassis.

[vintage@5280]

Agreed, the diagram is pretty straight forward.  I have no clue what the PO did, so I'm seeing what works and what doesn't.  It's trial and error.

I grounded the G/R to the frame and took it out of the B.  It's dead as a door nail.  It won't do anything.  I had the B from the switch hooked up to the B, G/R to G/R, and Y/R to Y/R with the G/R grounded off the solenoid to the frame, dead. 

I'm about to rip the harness out and start from scratch.  I'm getting pretty upset, this should be much easier than it's turning out to be.  Makes me angry just typing this right now.  I'm more than glad to facetime or talk on the phone this weekend if someone wants to give me a few mins of there time.  I'm pretty well versed on this, so this is beyond upsetting.  I have a feeling I have some funky wiring going on and it's causing the issue.  I have pretty much eliminated the switch and the solenoid as well as the starter, they all work, but in the wrong configuration.  I need to do some continuity tests tonight on the switch, just to double check.

Thanks as always for the help!

[vintage@5280]

This is contradicting, no:

Ignore the BLK/RED wire to your RH control. Solid Black to RH is power. It is jumpered to BLK/WHT to power your coils thru RUN/STOP. It is also feeding the Y/R thru START and runs to the solenoid. The G/R at the solenoid simply needs to be attached to ground, or a grounded connection (like the NEU wire).

If you do connect the solenoid G/R to NEU switch wire, then your bike will only start in NEU, not a good thing. That's where the clutch switch intervenes... so take the G/R and tie to your chassis.

I tried to ground it and either way it won't do anything.  It's dead unless I take G/R and give it Power or B. 

[bobagby]

J, I've been having the exact same issue as you with the exact same repro switch from 4 into 1. I wonder if there's a bad batch of switches out there and we both got one. I haven't done everything on mine yet that you have to test, but I will def keep you posted if I end up with the same results.

jon

[calj737]

This is contradicting, no:

Ignore the BLK/RED wire to your RH control. Solid Black to RH is power. It is jumpered to BLK/WHT to power your coils thru RUN/STOP. It is also feeding the Y/R thru START and runs to the solenoid. The G/R at the solenoid simply needs to be attached to ground, or a grounded connection (like the NEU wire).

If you do connect the solenoid G/R to NEU switch wire, then your bike will only start in NEU, not a good thing. That's where the clutch switch intervenes... so take the G/R and tie to your chassis.

I tried to ground it and either way it won't do anything.  It's dead unless I take G/R and give it Power or B.

Read the next sentence about the clutch switch-

[calj737]

You posted your key switch is wonky too. That may well be frustrating your power on Black to that handlebar control. Use a meter and make sure that BLACK is hot with the key ON

[vintage@5280]

#$%*, I'm happy I'm not the only one with the 4into1 switch issue!  I just ordered a EMGO switch from eBay and than another switch from 4into1 (different model) to test the theory this weekend. 

Yes, I see the next sentence and that does make sense about the clutch switch.  I agree, but after grounding the G/R wire, it's dead as a door nail (it makes sense to ground the G/r which is basically what the clutch switch would do when it's pulled in).  I do have HOT when the key is switched on to all my B outputs in the front wiring harness.  I think I have two.  I will really dig in this weekend and take a ton of pictures.

My gut tells me it's the switch.  I don't think they have the B or the BR jumpered inside the switch and that is causing my issue.  The EMGO is probably going to work and than I will just have to use an additional throttle holder instead of the switch which sucks, but whatever.

[calj737]

So Fritz suggested a test to diagnose your switch.

"I would test the following with a multimeter or a simple test light:

- Pull black and y/r from the starter button and test continuity of the button when pressed.
- Leave green wire on clutch switch and pull g/r from it. Test continuity between g/r and some blank spot on the frame while pulling the clutch
- See if the neutral light comes on"

Do that and let us know the results.

[vintage@5280]

Will do, but I don't have a clutch switch.  No clutch switch at all.  It came with a single clutch mount, no switches at all.

[calj737]

Will do, but I don't have a clutch switch.  No clutch switch at all.  It came with a single clutch mount, no switches at all.

If you don't have a clutch switch, but the harness and SSM are expecting it to be part of the circuitry, there's a hint to your problem  The clutch switch was required to be engaged for the bike to start. So at least temporarily jumper the harness side wires together to fool the START button into thinking its working. If your harness has single male spade connectors, find the 2 associated and stick a 5 amp fuse in them to join them for continuity. See if that helps.

[vintage@5280]

I totally agree, but what would I jump together?  Are you suggesting I connect the G/R to what?  What am I jumping? 

No SSM and no Clutch Switch?

I just tested the switch, B to B/R no continuity.  I tested Y/R and B when you push in the stop button, no continuity.  I think it's a crap switch.

[vintage@5280]

Start button

[Smudgemo]

Was the replacement the Honda part for ~$85 or the aftermarket $50 unit?  Just curious.

[vintage@5280]

Aftermarket for $50
I guess you get what you pay for?

[Smudgemo]

Seems to often work out that way.  If you have the original control and want to try fixing it, I worked out a 3D printed plastic housing to replace the plastic that normally disintegrates.  The rest of the parts are probably in good working order.

[vintage@5280]

No switches when I bought it.
The PO had the start button loosely hanging out of the bucket zip tied to the harness.

I got a new repo switch and it just tested out on the multimeter, so we should be good to go.  I'm gonna hook it up tonight and check it out.

Thanks!

[bobagby]

J, I've been having the exact same issue as you with the exact same repro switch from 4 into 1. I wonder if there's a bad batch of switches out there and we both got one. I haven't done everything on mine yet that you have to test, but I will def keep you posted if I end up with the same results.

jon

Hey, I do NOT have a bad starter switch. I had a #$%*ty connection between the red wires in my fuse box. Got that squared away and now everything is good to go. Good luck getting yours worked out

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