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Author Topic: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.  (Read 1730 times)

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Offline _millmo

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Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« on: February 02, 2017, 07:11:25 AM »
Hi guys,

I'll make this quick.

78 CB550 running a ballistic 8 cell battery, will die one block after letting out the clutch to bog down the bike at a light.  Then, there is a no crank no start.  but...the bike will start immediately after touching the battery with a jumpers from a charged battery.  It's like the starter relay or something) is magically being "reset" and the bike will start immediately via kick (takes more charging to start with the button.

Is that a bad starter relay?  has anyone ever experienced anything like this? Strange problem...
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Offline innovativems

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 07:22:29 AM »
Quote from: _millmo on February 02, 2017, 07:11:25 AM
Hi guys,

I'll make this quick.

78 CB550 running a ballistic 8 cell battery, will die one block after letting out the clutch to bog down the bike at a light.  Then, there is a no crank no start.  but...the bike will start immediately after touching the battery with a jumpers from a charged battery.  It's like the starter relay or something) is magically being "reset" and the bike will start immediately via kick (takes more charging to start with the button.


Is that a bad starter relay?  has anyone ever experienced anything like this? Strange problem...

I think I understand the jest of what you are saying happened.  Does it fire when kicking it?  Does it just click when you hit the starter?


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1974 Honda CB350f
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 07:39:09 AM »
Measure battery voltage at the terminals with the bike off.
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline _millmo

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. Crank/no start.
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 02:02:31 PM »
It will crank but not start.  And I can kick but no start. 

But, if I touch the terminals with jumper cables from another battery I can kick start it (if its warm) and use the button if it has charged sufficiently.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 02:07:57 PM by _millmo »
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Offline calj737

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 02:04:54 PM »
Check all your battery connections, inspect your key switch, check the clutch safety switch too.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline _millmo

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 02:11:10 PM »
So, the key switch is new, not sure how old the right side controls are (bad button?), and the battery terminals are tight and clean. 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 02:14:50 PM »
Quote from: flybox1 on February 02, 2017, 07:39:09 AM
Measure battery voltage at the terminals with the bike off.
::)

Tell us what your voltage at the battery terminals is
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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 03:12:36 PM »
Listen to Flybox..................your charging system (voltage regulator?) is not keeping your battery at full charge. The coils need a certain amount of voltage to fire the points & plugs. With a jump and partial charge, the bike will run but only for a short time and then bog ;) Also, check your plugs, they may be fouled.
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Offline _millmo

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2017, 08:47:53 AM »
From what I remember, the terminals read 10 volts (sorry i thought i wrote that in the first post)
...  Just enough to crank it over once before it dies completely.  With the headlight pulled out it runs fine. Put it in and it drains.  Im on my second reg/rec.  You think the stator needs to be rewound?  Or a new field coil?
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Offline calj737

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2017, 09:15:04 AM »
I think you need to accurately diagnose your electrical drain, not guess at what's causing your problems.

To assist with the former, give this flowchart a good follow:
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline _millmo

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 01:07:55 PM »
Awesome flow chart.  Thanks!

Is it possible, that since there are no blinkers or gauges that the blinker wire connectors from the harness could be touching something and drawing from the battery?  I'm not seeing any frayed wires except for some unconnected wires in the HL bucket.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 01:12:38 PM »
Not likely. Those wires don't draw anything unless there's a component attached to them drawing current through them.

Think about an extension cord plugged into a wall outlet. Does the cord draw electricity? No, not until a light is plugged in and turned ON does the electricity register. Same principle with your bike and car.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Don R

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Re: Need advice: Bike dies shortly after forced bog down. no crank no start.
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 03:15:14 PM »
 Check to see if the coils stay hot when the key is off.
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