Topic: Out of adjustment room for ignition timing (2-3)

[drumstyx]

I'm static timing the ignition on my rebuild and I've found I can't get the 2-3 point quite right...if I'm understanding it right, it'd fire a degree or two late. The 1-4 adjustment is also right at the end of its adjustment.

Am I missing something here? These points look in great condition, I gapped them down to 0.012 before and after adjusting the timing, and yet still it's just so close, but not quite.

The 1-4 timing is out of room clockwise, while the 2-3 timing is out of room counter clockwise, so I could turn the 1-4 (whole plate) slightly counter-clockwise and end up with something like 0.5 degrees off in either direction, but they'd still be a degree or so apart from eachother.

[Pat_at_APE]

You might have to open up the slots in the points a little.  I've had to do this before to get the timing right on the mark on a CB360. 

Regards,
Pat at APE

[700504]

I had the same thing happen, shim the edges of the plate. I made a post about it here http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,152579.msg1743612.html#msg1743612

[drumstyx]

Aright I think I got it...gaps make a HUGE difference in timing it seems.

These interdependent settings are infuriating. Electronic ignition is in my future.

[HondaMan]

Electronic ignition is in my future.

Ah, then you might just be STARTING your adventure....

By chance: look closely at your points plate, see if it has a tiny 3-leafed-clover-like emblem on it? If so, it is Daiichi, which is the worst of the worst of points sets for these bikes. If you have the Honda TEC brand and are still suffering wide gaps in the mounting posts, take a close look to see if someone may have bent them outward before you? This happens, too. The TEC points may require some readjustment (i.e., bending) of the ground-side contact's support arm to make them meet the timing marks AND points gap. The gap should be 0.014", or at least not less than 0.012" least for both.

[DH]

On occasion, when limits are reached, I tried with success, moving the points
plate up or down, (toward or away from the cam) if the points plate has enough
"slop" to do so. It's a little tricky to get gap AND timing both correct, but some times
things can be manipulated to proper ranges. Of course, it also depends on how
worn the points assemblies themselves are, and/or how loose the plate is inside the
mounting posts.

[drumstyx]

On occasion, when limits are reached, I tried with success, moving the points
plate up or down, (toward or away from the cam) if the points plate has enough
"slop" to do so. It's a little tricky to get gap AND timing both correct, but some times
things can be manipulated to proper ranges. Of course, it also depends on how
worn the points assemblies themselves are, and/or how loose the plate is inside the
mounting posts.

I can feel *maybe* a few thou of slop...feels like when rockers are properly adjusted, just a teeny wiggle...definitely feels very tight...but I didn't measure.

I didn't realize the gap made such a huge difference. I adjusted the gaps (lazily, if I'm honest) then made a huge adjustment to timing to time 1-4, then didn't check the gap again, which is probably what made 2-3 run out of adjustment so hard. I think I got it last night, then finished up the valve adjustment and closed 'er up. I'll double check tonight, and if I have the balls, it'll be the first run around 7pm! Bike is in the house, so I have to find some way of pointing the exhaust out the door.

[flybox1]

What brand points and points plate do you have?

[drumstyx]

What brand points and points plate do you have?

This is the only pic I have right now from when I disassembled things a year ago, as I'm at work. Can you make out anything related to brand there?



EDIT: Hmm...just noticing now then, it looks like the 1-4 (full plate) timing is completely opposite to what I ended up with the other day. This bike was put away about 12 years ago, and supposedly ran...

[flybox1]

Your points are Daiichi.  cant see any plate markings, but have to assume its daiichi as well.
Start with a new OEM ND or TEC points plate and points.

[drumstyx]

Alright, I'll have a closer look when I get home.

I actually have a spare '78 I've been using for a parts bike, so I'll have a look at what points/plate are there too, and how they look.
Edit: Actually, am I crazy or do I make out a faint "TEC" just under and to the left of the top screw there?

So, assuming I have a TEC plate, I'd bet the points and condensers were replace with daiichi at some point... As far as I see, it's about $140CAD for a whole new plate including condensers, wires, points. It's about $100USD from partzilla, and all 4 components separately add up to about the same -- is there anywhere to buy the components cheaper? If not, I might as well just get the whole thing, and really at that point, I might as well spend the coin on an electronic ignition...

[flybox1]

Might be, but IIRC the TEC logo is stamped closer to the center of the plate. 
If its a TEC plate, or you have another, first check to see how much lateral play there is between the plate and its mounting pillars.
if you can feel it slide around, you'll need a few shims from a beer or soda can to prevent this lateral movement.  THen proceed with setting the back plate in the middle of its rotational range before snugging it down.
Set the 1/4 points gap to .014"
Set use the 2/3 secondary plate and the 2/3 point itself to set the 2/3 point gap.
If you have a multimeter with a dwell function, set the point dwell now.
Then time it with a light.
Recheck dwell...

[drumstyx]

If the daiichi logo is that flower looking thing, then my other bike has em too. Both have tec plates though. Is the dealer the only place to get Tec points and condensers?

[flybox1]

Yes, the flower log is Daiichi.  TEC can be bought on ebay....

[drumstyx]

Yes, the flower log is Daiichi.  TEC can be bought on ebay....

Turns out it's only $100cad for a full replacement from the dealer. I think I'll just get that and upgrade with hondamans transistorized ignition in the summer.

Hopefully that solves my woes!

[PeWe]

I have also been there. Could not adjust to F when slots were not wide enough.
I fiddled around with the points gap and finally I could adjust. This was with a TEC plate. I remeber the same back in the days too, mostly Daichii plates.
I do not remember if I got more to adjust with Points at min gap.
Important to change point 1-4 which might be off. This will change the entire plate, startpoint for 2-3.