Topic: 1985 VF500 Interceptor

[MoMo]

I think the delay Scott is everyone in SC is celebrating the win over Duke.    I've never seen that sleeve that rusty on any of the V4s I've worked on....Larry

[Scott S]

 Got the brakes back together and the rear is bled. I'll need an extra set of hands and a day off to bleed the fronts.

 I've decided to bite the bullet and pull the carbs. I talked to my carb guy and he's VERY familiar with the V4 carbs and said he'd jump right on them for me. Gonna try to get them off tonight so I can drop them off.

[Scott S]

"Pull the carbs", they said. "They'll be dirty and plugged even though they were drained", I was warned.

 The manual shows about four steps to remove them. Then why did it take me and the GF an hour and a half and moving a bunch of hoses and stuff out of the way to get them out?! And...yeah...you guessed it: They're clean as a whistle from everything I can see. On the inside, at least. All throttles, slides, diaphragms, etc. I pulled one bowl and it looked pretty damn good.




 I am NOT looking forward to installing these things. I can see getting the barrels from the cables back into the carbs, but how do you get to the 10mm nuts to set cable freeplay/tension when the carbs are installed? I'm dreading that job.
 Also, one thing that was really in the way was the fuel inlet. Is it pressed in or threaded in? Could I have removed it to clear the frame rail/clutch line and make the job easier?

[Steve_K]

I pulled the carbs on my 92VFR to check value clearance.  I then put them back and got down to the last step, putting the the gas tank.  That is when I noticed the carbs were not seated fully in the boots.  PIA to do twice.  Just a note if the VF500 carbs are the same.  The 90 degree V makes it hard the get them seated.
Hope you have no problems getting it back together.
Steve

[grcamna2]

You can do those yourself Scott 
The fuel elbow does look out further than I ever remember one to be;I believe it's pressed-in but have never dared to try moving it.When you replace the 4 carb. rubber inlet tubes that will REALLY help when you re-install them;leave the 4)top clamps fairly loose and use a bit of WD40 on the rubber flanges along w/ the carb. throats,install the 2) fronts first and then push/lever the carbs forward(the front rubbers will flex a little as you do this)so that both rear ones slide-in using the alloy airbox,you need to put lots of pressure pushing forward on them to line them up.I enjoyed doing this task on my MC lift w/ the front wheel vise to keep the cycle from rolling forward as i pushed very hard on the back of the airbox! Don't worry about pushing forward hard on that alloy airbox.The valves are more simple to adj. while the carbs are out.I install,set/adj. the cables while the carbs are up top/out of their holes first then install the rack.

I also think it helps to polish the carb throats outer castings where they slip into the rubber flanges as sometimes the slip-on areas/throats outer surfaces castings are a little rough on some carbs;when they're polished a bit it aids in how easy they slide into the rubber tubes.I would only use WD40,etc. because it will dry-up later;if you use oil or grease they could conceivably slide back out.

[Scott S]

 I have new manifold rubbers. It also looks like it'll be much easier with the radiator out of the way. It's coming off soon anyway for the valve adjustment.

[grcamna2]

I have new manifold rubbers. It also looks like it'll be much easier with the radiator out of the way. It's coming off soon anyway for the valve adjustment.

When you have the radiator off flush it out w/ a garden hose as the silicates/sandy aluminum particles will be in there;you can get a new thermostat w/ rubber gasket too(use the garden hose down that thermo housing w/ the thermo removed) and then remove the block drain plugs underneath/center of each bank of cylinders and flush those water jackets out and later remove the water pump drain plug as it's the lowest point and flush it all out that drain hole.I recommend using the premixed Honda brand coolant as it's a good product.

[Scott S]

 Pretty much all of that is on the list. I have a factory service manual that covers those things.

[Scott S]

Can you put in a clutch master cylinder rebuild kit with the m/c still on the bars?
 Mine is cleaned, flushed, bled and working, but seems to be leaking a little.
 The Allen head bolts are stuck tight and starting to round out. It looks like I can install a rebuild kit in place. Possible?

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah Scott, there's no reason why you can't, but the trick for removing rounded out allen screws is get a cheap set of torx drivers, and belt the next sized up one into the rounded out hex hole, and just turn it out.

My Sportster hadn't been touched since it rolled off the showroom floor 21 years prior, so when I attempted to remove the switchblocks to change the bars, I had the same problem, and the torx driver trick worked perfectly, as it did on the corroded front brake MC bolt on my BMW R1100GS, both switchblocks on my GL1200, etc etc. Cheers, Terry.  

[Scott S]

 Good idea, and worth a shot.

 I ordered a set of master cylinder circlip pliers and a couple of rebuild kits today. The brake side is okay for now, but combined shipping and all.... figured I'd have the brake kit on hand, just in case. And I needed new circlip pliers anyway. My cheap set pretty much gave up the ghost on the last fork rebuild.

[grcamna2]

Good idea, and worth a shot.

 I ordered a set of master cylinder circlip pliers and a couple of rebuild kits today. The brake side is okay for now, but combined shipping and all.... figured I'd have the brake kit on hand, just in case. And I needed new circlip pliers anyway. My cheap set pretty much gave up the ghost on the last fork rebuild.

Scott,
  What master cyl. circlip pliers did you purchase? I'm looking for a set too

[Scott S]

 Motion Pro 08-0279


http://m.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-08-0279-Master-Cylinder-Snap-Ring-Pliers-/172210604662

[ekpent]

 I had a pair of those once and a tip snapped off the first time I used them. GRRR---  Probably just got a bad lemon out of the batch.

[grcamna2]

I just bought a pair from that same seller,I hope the tips don't snap off mine

[Scott S]

 The bolts holding the master cylinders to the bars were hopelessly stuck. The clutch master was dry and full of crystals, but cleaned up, bled and operated properly. HOWEVER....it eventually started leaking after a few days.
 The bolts just rounded out, and the ones on the brake side were going to be just as bad.





 A friend came over and used his Matco extractor set to get the bolts out. They were stuck TIGHT. Funny thing is, only one of the four showed any corrosion.
 I had ordered rebuild kits for both, but canceled the order because new master cylinders are less than rebuild kits.
 The clutch is 14mm and the brake is 16mm. Most replacement sets I see are both 16mm. What would that mean for the clutch side?

[Scott S]

 I also degreased the engine and took some sand paper strips and cleaned the exhaust. I read a tip about using aluminum foil to mask the engine. I'll let the exhaust dry out a bit, treat it with rust converter, then spray it down with ceramic heat paint.

 Be-fore:



During:



 Before:



 During:

[RAFster122s]

The ratio changes depending on the surface area of the slave cylinder to the master cylinder.  In a brake setup the master cylinder and caliper piston area is compared on Vintage Brakes website along with their impact on the brake effectiveness. 
http://vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Your larger piston on the clutch master is going to push more fluid than the 14mm master cylinder and you will have a more effective or less effort on the clutch because of the increased area.  (that's right isn't it?)  That could make the feel a bit less because you are having more influence on the slave cylinder movement.  It might not be a huge deal. 
Should be plenty of alternatives out there. You can get the rectangular Grimeca MCs very cheap on ebay...they are or used to be a good brand and there are some Grimeca race setups out there...

David

The bolts holding the master cylinders to the bars were hopelessly stuck. The clutch master was dry and full of crystals, but cleaned up, bled and operated properly. HOWEVER....it eventually started leaking after a few days.
 The bolts just rounded out, and the ones on the brake side were going to be just as bad.





 A friend came over and used his Matco extractor set to get the bolts out. They were stuck TIGHT. Funny thing is, only one of the four showed any corrosion.
 I had ordered rebuild kits for both, but canceled the order because new master cylinders are less than rebuild kits.
 The clutch is 14mm and the brake is 16mm. Most replacement sets I see are both 16mm. What would that mean for the clutch side?

[Terry in Australia]

To get your exhaust perfectly rust free, go to a farm store and buy a gallon or two of Phosphoric Acid, mix it 1:3 with water and fill up a big tub, and drop it in. The acid won't hurt your pipe (it's also used in most cola's) but it'll make the exhaust rust free and clean in a day or two, and will also remove all the old paint. Cheers, Terry.

[Scott S]

The ratio changes depending on the surface area of the slave cylinder to the master cylinder.  In a brake setup the master cylinder and caliper piston area is compared on Vintage Brakes website along with their impact on the brake effectiveness. 
http://vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Your larger piston on the clutch master is going to push more fluid than the 14mm master cylinder and you will have a more effective or less effort on the clutch because of the increased area.  (that's right isn't it?)  That could make the feel a bit less because you are having more influence on the slave cylinder movement.  It might not be a huge deal. 
Should be plenty of alternatives out there. You can get the rectangular Grimeca MCs very cheap on ebay...they are or used to be a good brand and there are some Grimeca race setups out there...

David

The bolts holding the master cylinders to the bars were hopelessly stuck. The clutch master was dry and full of crystals, but cleaned up, bled and operated properly. HOWEVER....it eventually started leaking after a few days.
 The bolts just rounded out, and the ones on the brake side were going to be just as bad.





 A friend came over and used his Matco extractor set to get the bolts out. They were stuck TIGHT. Funny thing is, only one of the four showed any corrosion.
 I had ordered rebuild kits for both, but canceled the order because new master cylinders are less than rebuild kits.
 The clutch is 14mm and the brake is 16mm. Most replacement sets I see are both 16mm. What would that mean for the clutch side?

 Hmmm...he recommends a 27:1 to 23:1 ratio for the front brake. If I'm reading the chart correctly, the stock Honda ratio is MUCH lower than that.
 The piston is 30mm, there are 4 (2 per caliper). The stock master cylinder bore is 15.8, so a 5/8" or 16mm bore.
According to that chart, that's only a 14.3:1 ratio.

 If I went to a 14mm brake master, that would get me 18.37 ratio.

 I seem to be able to find a pair or 14mm master cylinders or a pair of 16mm. I've asked the sellers if they can make me a set with 14/16mm.
 I guess it wouldn't be horrible to go with 14mm on the brake master, huh?

[grcamna2]

You'll be switching over to SS lines so that would remove any 'lag time' of going to a 14mm front brake master;what do the replacement master cyls. look like ?

[Scott S]

 I hear about people wrapping their bikes....am I doing it right?




 At least the aliens or the government can't see me know. 

 Nah, I made a brief attempt to loosen and remove the rear exhaust nuts and quickly decided that IF I could get them off, I'd probably never get them back on. I read about this on the internet and gave it a try. I think it'll work OK. The exhaust was sanded down and now has three coats of ceramic heat paint on it. I'll cure it in once I get the bike running.
 Oh, and got the oil and filter changed today, too.

[RAFster122s]

I thught to myself before reading, he is painting.  But yes, the thought police can't get your bike now and convince it to do evil things.  Yeah, I learned long ago that the blue wrench is often the only one capable of  getting some nuts to release.  You have to decide how far you are willing to go  and tradeoffs for those actions.
Sometimes I have heated it up and then hit it with a good stream of PB Blaster doing this several cycles.  It is actually safer to use a propane torch as it will not heat itto the point of glowing cherry red and annealing it as fast.  Last thing you want it to do is soften the exhaust studs so the sheer off.  It might be the time to pull out the Kroil or other top shelf penetrating oil if you are serious about removing them.
I find exhaust nuts to be a consumable item...if it does not cause the stud to break and create a problem that is far worse.  Thus, the blue wrench can help prevent this malady.

Too late now but,  the abrasive cloth backed sand paper rolls are ideal for sanding pipes as you will be able to get around the pipe on most sides easily.  Just think of plumbing with roll abrasives cleaning the pipe for soldering.  Same shoe shining/ polishing technique used and it makes quick work of them with a couple grades of the sandpaper/abrasive cloth material.

So, going you are just teasing  us with the before and not show is the after, but before heat treat view.
what brand and color ceramic paint?
Better choice than going with high heat BBQ paint you have to dig your foil out for every  3-4  months if the bike sees rainy weather use or has sat outside in the elements during those days it sees rain between arriving and departing from work.
 
Are you enjoying seeing the bike looking better and better with every hour invested in it.  I find that to be satisfying.

[Scott S]

 I used that abrasive sand paper roll stuff to clean the pipes. Worked great.

 I would have tried a little harder on the bolts if they were a little more accessible. It I broke or stripped something, that would mean removing the swing arm to get to it. Not worth it to me. You pick your battles.

 I used VHT Flame Proof ceramic exhaust paint. It dried a little flatter than I would have liked, but it's better than the rust. And truthfully, not a whole lot of the exhaust shows once the bodywork is back on. "After" pics coming soon. I was slammed yesterday and back to work today.

[RAFster122s]

I figured they were...just giving you a little grief.  Were you off, work an unconventional schedule, in your job.  There are many professions where rotating shifts and days are observed...not the "9-5" 5 days some are able to "enjoy".

I have always admired the looks of the Interceptor and hope your experience with it is a positive one, not every bike in a production is bad even if a high number of them exhibit negative behavior.  Friend owned a V6 Volvo 260 which had a reputation for eating cams.  It did so if the oil was not changed frequently enough as the oil passages in the head were just slightly undersized and could clog up starving the cams if the oil becam sludgy.  Friend bought one with 26k and bad cams.  Had it cleaned out and put fresh cams in it and then put 180k+ on the motor before selling it to a friend because his move to California would have necessitated a California emissions compliant car, i.e., one built for that market.  It saw close to another 100k before an accident caused by another driver ended its career on the road.  Motor never had any internal issues after that rebuild with new cams and thoeoughly cleaned heads.

So, hopefully you will not see catastrophic issues with yours either, knowing it can grenade if not properly cared for and being aware of its critical issues requiring mindful, accurate and meticulous maintenance in a few areas.  The price of the ride, entertainment it can provide.

Thanks for sharing your journey with we voyeurs observing your thread about the bike.  We Being commited/invested as a chicken is to a breakfast restaurant operated by a chicken and a pig.  The chicken provides eggs, while the pig provides ham, sausage, or bacon... the pigs investment is far greater than the chicken's...