Topic: what oil to use.

[Stev-o]

because of my ignorance i used car motor oil in my "new to me cb750 k6".  if i switch over to motorcycle oil will it improve clutch response? 

Possibly, but it won't be immediate.  Your clutch disc's are most likely soaked with oil. 

[tlbranth]

Today's oils are really quite good and are a part of the reason engines last so much longer these days. Back when my 750 was new we used automotive 10/40. Newer oils are better but might have stuff in them that causes a wet clutch to slip. Anything that is a high mileage oil is not good for a wet clutch. I've tried synthetics, 'designer' motorcycle oils but I've settled on Delo. I use it on all 4 bikes from 1970 to 2002 and have had zero problems.

[evinrude7]

that oil will get drained and replaced with Spectro Golden 4 before i ride again.  found a dealer 11 miles away.  i'll probably also add some lucas zinc additive.  any good ideas on flushing the wrong oil out? 

[DaveBarbier]

that oil will get drained and replaced with Spectro Golden 4 before i ride again.  found a dealer 11 miles away.  i'll probably also add some lucas zinc additive.  any good ideas on flushing the wrong oil out?

I like Spectro too, personally. I use the semi synthetic and it made a dramatic difference in finding neutral. Also shifting in general was noticeably smoother.

No need to try and flush the old oil out, in my opinion. Just drain it as much as you can (also remove the oil filter cover, that holds quite a bit of oil).

I wouldn't add the Lucas zinc additive. Spectro has a sufficient amount of zinc already in it.

[evinrude7]

thanks dave.  the learning curve is steep.  i believe the golden 4 is semi synthetic. 

[evinrude7]

drained the oil from the pan.  also remembered the oil filter bolt was gnarled when i put the new filter in last time.  well it's round now.  i have some cutting sockets i'll need to dig out and try.  tips appreciated.  are the oil filter bolts available?

[BomberMann650]

because of my ignorance i used car motor oil in my "new to me cb750 k6".  if i switch over to motorcycle oil will it improve clutch response? 

Possibly, but it won't be immediate.  Your clutch disc's are most likely soaked with oil.

An emergency quart of gas station oil permanently ruined my clutch.
I tried to "flush it out" but nope, only got worse.

[evinrude7]

hoping the bike is so old it needed any lubricant it could get it's hands on.  i'll let you know if i sustain any permanent damage. 

[BomberMann650]

You can get castrol and valvoline motorcycle oil at most auto parts stores if getting to a motorcycle shop is too far to drive and you have no patience for mail order.

[Deltarider]

because of my ignorance i used car motor oil in my "new to me cb750 k6".  if i switch over to motorcycle oil will it improve clutch response?  i'm not necessarily saying my clutch feels bad but i'm sure being a 40 year old bike that sat for over two years with the PO it would be wise to check the clutch for proper adjustment and use the correct oil.

Back then specific motorcycle oils (whatever that may be) were hard to find. Here everybody's favourite was Castrol GTX2 which wasn't specific for motorcycles. I use Castrol GTX 15w-40 High Mileage that's nice to old seals which is far more a problem with old bikes than the level of zinc. There are more bikes that don't need motorcycle oil as their clutches won't slip. Mine is an example and most probably yours too. The Yamaha XS650 I rode had a little bit of clutch slip but I never found out a 100% it had to do with the oil.

Anything that is a high mileage oil is not good for a wet clutch.

Depends what is ment by 'high mileage'. If it contains friction modifiers to improve economy, there might be a problem. Might. You can try it. If your clutch is not sensitive to friction modifiers, you may even benefit and enjoy a better economy. If 'high mileage' is ment like Castrol means it, you'll have an oil that deals with older motors that have done at least a 100.000 kms. I use it in my bike and it helps sealing the seals. I haven't had to replace even the notorious shifter seal yet!

that oil will get drained and replaced with Spectro Golden 4 before i ride again.  found a dealer 11 miles away.  i'll probably also add some lucas zinc additive.  any good ideas on flushing the wrong oil out?

To me you seem overconcerned. You've mentioned no actual problems. Then you conclude by listening to others that you have the 'wrong' oil that even needs to be 'flushed out'. Come on man, aren't you exaggerating here? On top of that you want to ad an additive without knowing the formula of the oil? Everybody in the oil industry warns against this. Do you know better? Any data to convince us? Not that long ago I read an article in a magazine for the automotive branch (for professionels and not available for customers) about a long list of oil additives. Zinc was not even mentioned.

[PeWe]

because of my ignorance i used car motor oil in my "new to me cb750 k6".  if i switch over to motorcycle oil will it improve clutch response?  i'm not necessarily saying my clutch feels bad but i'm sure being a 40 year old bike that sat for over two years with the PO it would be wise to check the clutch for proper adjustment and use the correct oil.   

Less risk for slipping clutch after an oil + filter change with motorcycle oil. Do another change again soon after to rinse the engine. (50-100km)
Some oils are not good for CB750 which will be noticed when warm and problem to find neutral. Stop while engine released by the clutch, switch off and gear to neutral.
CycleX clutch will sticks over night and is problematic during taking off. Thats my experience.

[ekpent]

drained the oil from the pan.  also remembered the oil filter bolt was gnarled when i put the new filter in last time.  well it's round now.  i have some cutting sockets i'll need to dig out and try.  tips appreciated.  are the oil filter bolts available?

So I take it you are saying that you have not been able to remove the oil filter bolt yet since you have owned the bike because the bolt head is damaged ? To answer one question yes they are available, probably all over E-bay and someone here probably has an extra also. Make sure you have the spring in there also. As for getting the old one off you may have luck hammering the next smaller size socket on the damage head, maybe use vice grips or weld a nut or socket on the end. Worse case scenario is to cut it off.
  As for the car oil you put in unless it was some overpriced synthetic stuff you should be OK.  Get the filter off before changing to your Spectro oil.

[DaveBarbier]

drained the oil from the pan.  also remembered the oil filter bolt was gnarled when i put the new filter in last time.  well it's round now.  i have some cutting sockets i'll need to dig out and try.  tips appreciated.  are the oil filter bolts available?

If you can weld, the sure fire way to remove it is to weld on a bigger nut. Maybe try vise grips?

These bolts are fragile, so when you do get it back on do not crank on it. Definitely shouldn't even run the risk of rounding it off. Notice the bolt seems large but the hex head is only 12mm (I think, 10 or 12). Honda did it that way to try to keep people from getting a lot of leverage. The hollow bolt will snap. You're not holding a brake rotor on, all you're doing is compressing an o-ring so it won't leak.

The oil filter bolts are available for around $50. I had to weld a nut on mine and I'm just going to keep it.

Also, I've never heard of a clutch being permanently damaged by oil.

[DaveBarbier]

drained the oil from the pan.  also remembered the oil filter bolt was gnarled when i put the new filter in last time.  well it's round now.  i have some cutting sockets i'll need to dig out and try.  tips appreciated.  are the oil filter bolts available?

So I take it you are saying that you have not been able to remove the oil filter bolt yet since you have owned the bike because the bolt head is damaged ? To answer one question yes they are available, probably all over E-bay and someone here probably has an extra also. Make sure you have the spring in there also. As for getting the old one off you may have luck hammering the next smaller size socket on the damage head, maybe use vice grips or weld a socket on the end. Worse case scenario is to cut it off.
  As for the car oil you put in unless it was some overpriced synthetic stuff you should be OK.  Get the filter off before changing to your Spectro oil.

Also don't forget the washer that goes between the filter and the spring. It's there to keep the spring from damaging the rubber. It's easy to throw it away with the filter because it gets stuck to it. If you don't have one, any washer of approximate thickness will work.

[ekpent]

50 bucks ?? mercy yours must be gold plated    Here is a new one for $10.93 with free shipping but be careful as it has a 17 mm head which can get tightened too hard too easily    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Oil-Filter-Bolt-15420-300-020-Replacement-CB900C-CB900F-CB1100F-CB1000C-/311772859147?hash=item48971c4b0b:g:U0UAAOSwnHZYa9L3&vxp=mtr

[PeWe]

The filter bolt has a small 12mm head to make sure to not overtighten it. Use correct tool, 12mm wrench or socket, not an almost correct imperial.
I have an aftermarket oil filter bolt with larger head, maybe 17mm or so. I have not used it yet.

Note!
Important to clean engine around the filter before removing it. Be sure that no dirt will enter the inside when filter is removed (on case with oil holes and filter cover that must be cleaned). This area is the direct transport to the head and tiny oil orificies that sometimes becomes blocked. Cam holder and cam will react with each other. Maybe broken cam, cam sprocket, cam chain too...

I start to think that the oil filter change might be one of the causes of this kind of failure that many blame silicone sealer. There are a few places sealer can enter the oil path to head without being catched by the filter. After filter, fat 183 o-ring between cases (no sealer neaded aorund this) o-rings case-cyl, cyl-head and finally under the cam holders if too much sealer is used for the rubber coins.
I hope I'll never get that problem.

[ekpent]

 Aw c'mon PeWe, join the fun !!        This happened because someone used car oil 


 Not really just trying to scare the original poster-------------------------

[DaveBarbier]

50 bucks ?? mercy yours must be gold plated    Here is a new one for $10.93 with free shipping but be careful as it has a 17 mm head which can get tightened too hard too easily    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Oil-Filter-Bolt-15420-300-020-Replacement-CB900C-CB900F-CB1100F-CB1000C-/311772859147?hash=item48971c4b0b:g:U0UAAOSwnHZYa9L3&vxp=mtr

Ah yes, I was talking about new Honda bolts. Aftermarket ones are cheap enough. Thanks for the clarification

[evinrude7]

delta rider, i don't know if i'm exaggerating here.  i don't have enough experience with these bikes to know.  that's why i'm on this forum. to learn from those with more experience such as yourself.  thanks for your input and letting me know it's not a big deal. you've chimed in a time or two on my questions and i appreciate that, especially being a noob. 

ekpent, dave and pewe, i have replaced the filter before.  i recall the nut was rounded to begin with.  i had to use vise grips last time. this time no luck with them.  i've had this issue before with old cars and i have a set of sockets that will eventually get it off.  if not i'll find a way.  on the oil i've generally used valvoline conventional oil in all my vehicles.  i've never owned a brand new car so i usually go with a little marvel mystery oil to quiet the top end.  have had long lasting cars all my life.  i'll follow the advice on being careful not to get any junk up in there as well as not torquing down the bolt too much.  what's ironic is i've been having trouble with my 2007 dodge pickup stalling and the occasional buck.  it was a loose spark plug at the back of the motor that i must have overlooked tightening last summer when i changed the plugs.   

can't really weld.  have a few times before but i don't own the gear. something i'd like to get into and learn. 

[Deltarider]

i recall the nut was rounded to begin with.

Even if you had rounded it yourself, you don't need to feel bad about it. Most get rounded sooner or later. Where it sits, the bolt faces wind, rain, snow, salt, changing temperatures and what not. There are aftermarket bolts that have 17 mm and sofar I've heard nothing bad about them. Mine was rounded too (by me) and I had a friend weld a bigger nut on it. For aerodynamics we choose a cap nut (see pic). What I usually do is this: before I undo it, I tap the bolt head on with a hammer first to awake it. Under no circumstance should you use the wrench of the onboard set the bike came with. Use a good wrench or socket.
For the torque wrench lovers: now here is a good opportunity to actually use it: 2,7-3,3 kg/m and for the oil drain bolt it is: 3,5-4,0 kg/m. I advice not to go over the lowest value.

[evinrude7]

ha i certainly don't feel bad about making the nut worse.  i'll probably find the aftermarket one, 17 mm and be sure not to go bananas on the torque.  on a side note: as i've already hijacked this thread... what are you all using to get tappet covers off, especially 2 and 3 intake?  closed end wrench?  my open end just slides off and i can't get a socket under there. 

[Jimray23]

i had used 15/40 agri oil for diesel engines..its better for summer use..but better use a vet clutch oil..just to be safe.(.i dont)

Thats what i use and its 15/40

Jimmy
1979 kz1000 ltd mkii
     dyna s ignition, dyna 3 ohm coils, solid copper core plugs, full rewire.

[PeWe]

Aw c'mon PeWe, join the fun !!        This happened because someone used car oil 


 Not really just trying to scare the original poster-------------------------

Yes, that look fun and I'm really happy that it has not happened to me, YET.   I used a lot of car oil in my K6 the first 40.000km. Cheap oil and bike ran really hard. Foam inside oil tank was normal after a ride I do not recall if I replaced the 736 pistons or rings only before bore to 836. I remember that several rings fell out in pieces. One ring in 2 or 3 WOT most of the time. The final restore when I had to bore to 836 was the turning point replacing all bearings inside + other $$$$ mods. After that Quaker State single grade mineral 1-2 years, followed by Vance & Hines red raspberry smelling oil 1-2 years. Thn Mobile1 car oil and clucth slip began.  Holidays on Autobahn were OK with GTX2

I have never worried about dry cam before. I'm a little bit concerned now after a complete engine restore with heavy improvement/modification. I do not want to open it again.
So determine a root cause I believe in and sure I have not done that mistake, is the medicine for me.

I replaced my cam holders with other low miles ones at the last build a month ago. Tighter cam bearings. I blew all cam holder holes with compressed air, head an oil orificies too.

Open all valve caps for visual check will not show if a cam bearing runs dry, right? A small camera would be fine, like doctors use.
Maybe this can work sticking in thru the valve adj holes in valve cover? For Android only. There are others for iPhone but cost more, maybe as much as 25USD!!! Water proof...oil proof too? Maybe thin plastic foil around the tip will help
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5M-5-5mm-6LED-USB-Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Snake-Inspection-Camera-NEW-/272376796570
Perfect to verify that I did not miss anything when I let the food out last time

or this, free shipping china
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-HD-720P-Waterproof-WIFI-Camera-Inspection-Endoscope-For-iPhone-Android-/201728070356?var=&hash=item2ef7ee12d4:m:m7BgWby7FdugTF_HO71Ej6Q

[jonda500]

Back when I still had my first SOHC/4 (a '75 CB400-4), I put Castrol GTX2 in it. It seemed to love it - it felt smoother, quieter, faster and generally better. But two days later the clutch started to slip any time I went over 7000rpm. I immediately changed the oil and used motorcycle oil but when that had made no difference after a few weeks, I ordered new clutch friction discs - of course fitting the new discs fixed it and I have never since used an oil with friction modifiers in any of my motorcycles.
John

In Australia, Penrite hi-zinc motorcycle oil seems to be a good choice. 

[Stev-o]

what are you all using to get tappet covers off, especially 2 and 3 intake?  closed end wrench? 

Yes, a 17mm......and they can be a #$%*. A little heat may help...and not talking blowtorch!