Topic: Paul Smart by KDI -Homage (re) Build-

[materializer]

Ever since I came across the Paul Smart CB550 I just knew instantly that this was the road to go down with my aspirations in making a bike for my wife. I myself ride a VT1100C2, bobbed, double hyper charged and with NOX system. I do however think I'll be borrowing the the CB from the misses more than occasionally.

So about the Paul Smart CB550 by KDI (Kevin Dinsmoor)

It is IMHO by far the most sexy (cafe) racer based on an CB I have encountered so far. They typical cafe racer builds just look more or less all the same to me. Been googling blisters in the past months trying to decide how to go about my build, and then one evening I saw her..



What I like about this build mostly is the fusion of modern and retro; the fiber bodywork combined with the more contemporary front and rear suspension. The VFR mono rear suspension especially takes away from the all to recognizable stock dual shock rear end found in 95% of usual builds. Combined with the just too sexy upside down front end the overall stylishness just gets so classy! Again IMHO

There will be some frame chopping and adding to do as the single arm rear will need mounting parts for the single rear shock. I have never welded onto a bikes frame but I figure my experience as an artist (http://www.materializer.nl/artworks.html) working mainly in steel in time I'll get it done nice and tight.

   


Here's the URL to a more detailed set of pics of Kevins project. http://www.way2speed.com/2014/05/kdi-honda-cb650-paul-smart.html

Edit: original build thread:
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=31281.0

As said this will be a first timer for me embarking on a project like this.. and fully aware of this project being a "tad" (understatement) more complex than I could wish for.. But just going by the mere thought the build has been done before gives me the courage to invest a year or so into this project. Knowing there's also loads of kind folk around here as I have noticed I am confident this is not a dead end.

First question for me to ask in this project thread would be: There any one that installed a VFR or like mono arm into the stock mounts of the CB650Z?

Regards,
Monk

[calj737]

I certainly admire your tastes... though I'd caution you about the undertaking. It may look "doable" but I assure you, theres a great deal of fabrication, engineering, and money invested in that bike. The purchase of bodywork alone (metal, aluminum or carbon fibre) will be daunting.

Grafting the front end to your stock frame won't be such a big deal. All Balls Racing makes "conversion" bearings (tapered roller) for installation into your stock neck but sized properly for the CBR900 front end. Noticing that you are in NL, is there ample supply of CBR donors or salvage yards where the front and rear can be had?

A word about welding the stock frame... Its very thin steel tubing (like 0.062 or less) so welding it takes skill to do it properly. It is NOT a task I'd suggest for someone who will be new to welding. Those sections (the subframe) will undergo significant stress, so having a competent welder do that would be in your best interest. Brackets and other smaller stuff, sure, very doable. But don't risk the wife's (or your) life over pride or conceit so you can say, "I did that".

It's a great looking bike and I'll be following with enthusiasm to see it come together!

[materializer]

I certainly admire your tastes... though I'd caution you about the undertaking. It may look "doable" but I assure you, theres a great deal of fabrication, engineering, and money invested in that bike. The purchase of bodywork alone (metal, aluminum or carbon fibre) will be daunting.

***
Cal, I traced down the original suppliers for the bodywork: $80 for the belly part and $170 for the top part. The (sexy) "ass" part I can weld myself from laser cut sheet metal. I am in the proces of buying the mono rear end for 175, The seller, a salvager nearby claims he positively identified the type of VFR rear end PS used for this build, as he kind of understands what would have been necessary to make it fit. Fingers crossed here  to be honest...

Grafting the front end to your stock frame won't be such a big deal. All Balls Racing makes "conversion" bearings (tapered roller) for installation into your stock neck but sized properly for the CBR900 front end. Noticing that you are in NL, is there ample supply of CBR donors or salvage yards where the front and rear can be had?

***
CBR? The donor for the PS is a CB650 i think, and theres plenty of salvage parts online, but I dont think i'll need much donor parts from the CB
The Upside downs frontend is indeed a pricey part i fear but essential for the feel of the end result. I'll have to save up big time and sell lots of crap from my hobby shed to finance bit by bit.. I got time enough though. no hurry

A word about welding the stock frame... Its very thin steel tubing (like 0.062 or less) so welding it takes skill to do it properly. It is NOT a task I'd suggest for someone who will be new to welding. Those sections (the subframe) will undergo significant stress, so having a competent welder do that would be in your best interest. Brackets and other smaller stuff, sure, very doable. But don't risk the wife's (or your) life over pride or conceit so you can say, "I did that".

***
I agree that the welding part may very well be above my pay grade.. I do however have acces to a custom shop back here where I live in Helmond, Netherlands. The guy is $50,- an hour so having the two pieces of tubing welded in with care that support the mono shock on the top side can be outsourced for me. Working with the back end/hoop I trust my self though. I have some what of a history with fine mechanicals and fine welding, check out my website that covers my (hitech) art of the past decade. http://www.materializer.nl/artworks.html

Also, the parts that secure and position the lower part of the mono shock is something I will most definitely not do all by my self. But in stead ask a professional bike builder to advise and help me with. I am still in doubt whether I should try and contact Paul Smart.. I know people tried to contact him but got brick walled asking about this bike.. Maybe he'd hate to have it "homaged".

Anyways, I will take as long as is necessary to do this project.. of course having three kids, FT job, low cash is a serious set of circumstances but I'm quite good at sourcing stuff and other resources.. I have been a technical art producer for over a decade and found that i take great pleasure in searching untill I found exactly what I need. what I dont take any pleasure in in putting any loved one nor myself in any risk. The pride involved with "I did that" lies in getting stuff done the proper way. In the proces of getting large scale projects done in the past the one thing I learned is to never be cocky or smart ass when your on the thin ice or out of your league I deeply appreciate your pointer to the reality of this attempt to build the PS though!
 

It's a great looking bike and I'll be following with enthusiasm to see it come together!

I hope you have a long breath

edit: happened to stumble upon (for me) the second ever instance of a single-side swingarm on a 650:
https://nl.pinterest.com/pin/433612270342997822/
Somehow gives courage

Kind Regards,

Monk

[calj737]

The CBR is the donor front end 

Sounds like youve got a solid handle on how to get this done. What are you doing spending time typing replies, get busy building! 

[materializer]

The CBR is the donor front end 

***
  Oh my.. now I got you.. yes indeed, the front end is honda aswel.


Sounds like youve got a solid handle on how to get this done. What are you doing spending time typing replies, get busy building! 

haha No Im on the bosses clock, Im the producer of MU in Eindhoven NL.. FT job for the past 10yrs.. I manage the 8 man production team that builds the exhibitions. (we're a museum for modern art, http://mu.nl/en/exhibitions/book-your-tickets-online )

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

materializer,

FYI -- the bike you admire is a CB550, not a CB650.  If you are planning to use a CB650 as the donor, the frame will require even more modification especially if you use one from 1980-82 (those year frames were designed more as cruisers). 

A single-sided swingarm will be heavier than a conventional dual-sided swingarm, especially if you use a cast piece like the VFR or a Ducati.  The stock 550 motor only produces about 34 hp at the wheel.  It will also require some finesse to fit the swingarm into the 550 frame and get the right monoshock.  It is not impossible, just challenging.  Moreover, these dual sided swingarms are longer and will change the handling of the bike (extending the wheelbased making the bike harder to turn).  Assuming you get the singlesided swingarm to fit and function correctly, you will probably want to increase the power to the motor to compensate for the extra weight. 

At the end of the day, this will be a mode of transport, not just an art piece, so remember to emphasize function and not just form.  Good luck!

[materializer]

materializer,

FYI -- the bike you admire is a CB550, not a CB650.  If you are planning to use a CB650 as the donor, the frame will require even more modification especially if you use one from 1980-82 (those year frames were designed more as cruisers). 

A single-sided swingarm will be heavier than a conventional dual-sided swingarm, especially if you use a cast piece like the VFR or a Ducati.  The stock 550 motor only produces about 34 hp at the wheel.  It will also require some finesse to fit the swingarm into the 550 frame and get the right monoshock.  It is not impossible, just challenging.  Moreover, these dual sided swingarms are longer and will change the handling of the bike (extending the wheelbased making the bike harder to turn).  Assuming you get the singlesided swingarm to fit and function correctly, you will probably want to increase the power to the motor to compensate for the extra weight. 

At the end of the day, this will be a mode of transport, not just an art piece, so remember to emphasize function and not just form.  Good luck!

Hi,

Hmm what makes you think it is a 650? I mean in all honesty i am far from an expert but this build is tagged 650 in a couple of places.
So... i sincerely hope you are wrong Otherwise im f***ed..

thanx for pointing me to the possibility of a mishap..

Monk

[Darren Jakal]

cool fairing

[materializer]

materializer,

FYI -- the bike you admire is a CB550, not a CB650.  If you are planning to use a CB650 as the donor, the frame will require even more modification especially if you use one from 1980-82 (those year frames were designed more as cruisers). 

A single-sided swingarm will be heavier than a conventional dual-sided swingarm, especially if you use a cast piece like the VFR or a Ducati.  The stock 550 motor only produces about 34 hp at the wheel.  It will also require some finesse to fit the swingarm into the 550 frame and get the right monoshock.  It is not impossible, just challenging.  Moreover, these dual sided swingarms are longer and will change the handling of the bike (extending the wheelbased making the bike harder to turn).  Assuming you get the singlesided swingarm to fit and function correctly, you will probably want to increase the power to the motor to compensate for the extra weight. 

At the end of the day, this will be a mode of transport, not just an art piece, so remember to emphasize function and not just form.  Good luck!

Hi,

Hmm what makes you think it is a 650? I mean in all honesty i am far from an expert but this build is tagged 650 in a couple of places.
So... i sincerely hope you are wrong Otherwise im f***ed..

thanx for pointing me to the possibility of a mishap..

Monk

Darn.. looked for this build seaching with added :cb 550... found it...    This sucks soo much..

Monk

[Duke McDukiedook]

Could be a 550 frame with a 650 motor in it.

[materializer]

cool fairing

I think I identified it to be a replica of the Moto Guzzi V7 Sport - Le Mans Top Half.
Cost about 190 credits..

Monk

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I am sorry but this bike is CLEARLY a 550.  The engine is a 550 (look at the valve cover).
550 engine:



A 650 engine has a very different/flat valve cover.  ALSO NO KICKSTART.  The Paul Smart inspired bike has a kickstart and the round bubble valve cover as the one shown above.

Here's the 650 engine:



The Paul Smart replica bike came out a couple of years ago on the blogs -- as a 550.  This particular blog is simply wrong.

Personally, if you want to run a heavier single-sided-swingarm, you should think about running a 650 motor in a 550 frame.  The handling is inherently better on a 550 and the 1979-1982 650 motors will directly swap in.

Check out the number of 650 engine/550 frame builds:

Rusty Olive's 1978 CB550/650 "Olivia"
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,81683.0.html


Dave Barbier's Patina Hyena build
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,140833.0.html


I also have a 650 engine/550 frame project in progress:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html

[materializer]

...well well ..well.. thats ... uhmm inspiring up to a certain degree... Will have to find out if this whole plan is going to work out using the 650 frame I have to make this happen.. if not: change of plans: get a 550 frame somewhere. Back to the drawing board... Thanks though for making very clear I was on a dead end with the frame, oddly enough thankful for that !
But im the type of guy that never gives up! Very motivated to get my misses the PS racer!

Regards,

Monk

I am sorry but this bike is CLEARLY a 550.  The engine is a 550 (look at the valve cover).
550 engine:



A 650 engine has a very different/flat valve cover.  ALSO NO KICKSTART.  The Paul Smart inspired bike has a kickstart and the round bubble valve cover as the one shown above.

Here's the 650 engine:



The Paul Smart replica bike came out a couple of years ago on the blogs -- as a 550.  This particular blog is simply wrong.

Personally, if you want to run a heavier single-sided-swingarm, you should think about running a 650 motor in a 550 frame.  The handling is inherently better on a 550 and the 1979-1982 650 motors will directly swap in.

Check out the number of 650 engine/550 frame builds:

Rusty Olive's 1978 CB550/650 "Olivia"
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,81683.0.html


Dave Barbier's Patina Hyena build
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,140833.0.html


I also have a 650 engine/550 frame project in progress:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

...well well ..well.. thats ... uhmm inspiring up to a certain degree... Will have to find out if this whole plan is going to work out using the 650 frame I have to make this happen.. if not: change of plans: get a 550 frame somewhere. Back to the drawing board... Thanks though for making very clear I was on a dead end with the frame, oddly enough thankful for that !
But im the type of guy that never gives up! Very motivated to get my misses the PS racer!

Regards,

Monk

Monk,

If you have a 1979 CB650, the frame geometry is MUCH closer to a CB550 (more standard versus cruiser), and you should be able to use the frame.  IF not, you might want to pick up a cheap title 550 frame. 

The stock 650 motor has more hp and torque than the stock 550 motor and only weighs a couple of pounds more.  There are also performance upgrades available for the 650 motor, including aftermarket cams, 674cc high compression kit from Dynoman and porting (the head).  These upgrades can really up the performance of the bike.  Take a good look at reading Dave Barbier's build thread especially the second half of it where he swaps out the motor and rebuilds a higher performance 650 engine.  Others like Rusty Olive went with a simple swap with a stock 650 motor.

[materializer]

...well well ..well.. thats ... uhmm inspiring up to a certain degree... Will have to find out if this whole plan is going to work out using the 650 frame I have to make this happen.. if not: change of plans: get a 550 frame somewhere. Back to the drawing board... Thanks though for making very clear I was on a dead end with the frame, oddly enough thankful for that !
But im the type of guy that never gives up! Very motivated to get my misses the PS racer!

Regards,

Monk

Monk,

If you have a 1979 CB650, the frame geometry is MUCH closer to a CB550 (more standard versus cruiser), and you should be able to use the frame.  IF not, you might want to pick up a cheap title 550 frame. 

The stock 650 motor has more hp and torque than the stock 550 motor and only weighs a couple of pounds more.  There are also performance upgrades available for the 650 motor, including aftermarket cams, 674cc high compression kit from Dynoman and porting (the head).  These upgrades can really up the performance of the bike.  Take a good look at reading Dave Barbier's build thread especially the second half of it where he swaps out the motor and rebuilds a higher performance 650 engine.  Others like Rusty Olive went with a simple swap with a stock 650 motor.

Hi Crf, aah another tiny glimpse at a possible satisfying outcome! My frame nr is: RC032001561. I have difficulty placing the nr into a build year but think it is ......79.. not sure thou since i get different results.. any source where i can accurately reference the frame number? If it is indeed a 79er i might just push forward and make it happen. Provided as you warned me the frame is suites enough. I dont want to completely re do the frame.  Might aswel get a 550 frame then..

Thanx for the up!

Monk

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HUAWEI GRA-L09 met Tapatalk

[Camrector]

Fairing and oil pan is from airtech. Tank is a from a Kawasaki. I'd estimate this build costing between 10 and 12k at least.

[calj737]

Monk, take Don's advice and stuff Wifey's motor in your frame, after the modifications have been done. Once you modify the "subframe" where the seat connects, the only possible difference between a 650/550 is the angle and shape of the frame backbone. Since it will be a custom tank anyway, you'll be fine.

This build would have been MUCH better with a hi-po 650 motor, regardless of the kick starter.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Hi Crf, aah another tiny glimpse at a possible satisfying outcome! My frame nr is: RC032001561. I have difficulty placing the nr into a build year but think it is ......79.. not sure thou since i get different results.. any source where i can accurately reference the frame number? If it is indeed a 79er i might just push forward and make it happen. Provided as you warned me the frame is suites enough. I dont want to completely re do the frame.  Might aswel get a 550 frame then..

Thanx for the up!

Monk

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HUAWEI GRA-L09 met Tapatalk

It looks like you may have a 1979 CB650 model.  http://www.sohc4.net/cb650-model-guide/

IF so, the frame geometry is very close to a CB550. 

One of the easiest ways to tell is by looking at the frame rails where the seat attaches to the frame.  If the line of the bottom of the seat is a straight line from front to rear, it is a 1979.  The 1980-82 models all have rails that dip in the rear to give the seat a lower height and cruiser riding position.  Check out the model guide.

[materializer]

Hiya,

So after all no rear problems.. I def have a 79er, I cross referenced it.
This is the donor i bought: http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic-bikes-2/CB650.jpg

SoI'll go ahead and make this happen.

A few things. Someone mentioned this build easily will bleed me 10k, nope.. I know I said "make a replica"..
I should have said "make an homage"..

-I will not upgrade the engine, just renew the seals and check the valves..Glass bead blast it for a nicer cleaner look.. small stuff anyways.
keep the Carbs, just add the nice small 4 filters, no powdercoating the cylinders..
-I will do all paintwork on the frame myself, as I own the pro stuff to do it.. the tank painting will be outsourced. 250
-Front and rear suspension: theres a couple of salvages that I have contact with: will set me back a 600
-fairing and oil pan: theres a local cafe racer that sells cheaper models (plus no extra vat and customs duties for import to NL) that come really close to the airtech stuff: 300
-keep the tank as is at first btw.. Ill source for a KZ tank
-master brake cylinder rear, the steps, steering bar exhaust.. no idea about what the small bits will cost.. but it wont be 8K...

I know this sounds thinking too cheap, and I agree I lack the full scope.. very likely.. but I intend to approach the PS CB550/650..
I am fully aware the level of build quality and overall finish is way way way over my head, but having that particular CB KDI built is not my intention.
(Actually the whole intention of this build is to challenge my self and craft a very personal gift for my wife.. It'll take me ages, I know.. but I figure we still have some decades for the both of us ahead..

And I have come to learn the hard way: "Your last clothes wont have any pockets"..

So do what you love to do.. in my case, always push your limits, go out onto the thin ice..#$%* up, think, second chances.. and then some (|:)

What a fantastic forum: thank you all for being so responsive !

Monk

[materializer]

This build would have been MUCH better with a hi-po 650 motor, regardless of the kick starter.

So true!

[calj737]

I think you have a very solid grasp of what you're getting into. And budget builds can look just as pretty as pro, over the top builds. No one I know has the ability to look internally into the engine while it sits there 

If you are going to glass bead blast the cases, you'll need to do a full motor disassembly. Any media that enters the motor must be purged. And of course, a bead blasted set of cases will oxidize heavily should you not care for them regularly with aluminum polish.

There's another technique called "vapor blasting" or "vapor honing" that you might consider. Perhaps someone offers this locally to you. (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164058.0.html) Just look at his website and the photo gallery to get an idea of how beautiful these look 

A word of caution: your stock 650 carbs are not very friendly with pod filters. The type of carb you have just doesn't behave well without using the stock airbox. What you can do thats often less expensive, is use a set of CB750 carbs from an early model. The spacing is compatible, and these can be more easily tuned to support pods. And they are far less expensive than CR29s.

A final idea: If you do disassemble the engine, it would be wise to have the cylinder heads surface milled flat. The cylinder deck milled flat, the bores honed, and of course the valve seats lapped purely to freshen up the motor. 18k miles (or Kms) is not a lot, but the age of the bike and prior owners obviously neglected the bike, so a good run-through of major areas will bring years of reliability. Should still be able to keep the project expense well under $10k 

[materializer]

Cal I agree, Vapor blasting is the way to go, never heard about it though. But going by the quote:"..as cast originally end result" .. way to go

I indeed also feel quite confident that I will want to pull the whole engine apart. Thats just my time and thus affordable. Milling the cylinder heads flat and honing the bores is something I will have to consider.. could be pricey though..

Cal, Could you explain what effect is causing the 650 carbs to hate the pod filters? It sounds like I def will need to source for a set of 750 carbs, which I already know a place for. (still very interested to understand the problems with cutting out the airbox though..

Monk

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Whether you glass bead or vapor blast (preferred), you will definitely need to completely disassemble the engine -- AND thoroughly clean it after blasting and before re-assembly.  Blasting media gets into the oil galleys.  You will want to blow compressed air through all of the passages AND clean all tapped/threaded parts of the engine.  IF you don't, you'll end up with blasting media in the oil or blocking oil flow.

Running early  (1969-76) 750K carburetors is a good performance upgrade.

If you are going to disassemble the engine, definitely mill the mating surfaces of the head and cylinders flat to help prevent leaks.

[BLAC]

Yes on vapor blasting and the 650 motor!  If I had to restart my build I might have sourced a 650 motor for my 550 and build that one, but I kind of like having the original motor in it and I already have thousands of dollars into the engine 

Take the budget you have in your mind right now, triple it and you will probably be close to what it will cost all in 

[slikwilli420]

Forget the budget. All that will do is depress you in the end. If you want something, go for it. Most of use have WAY more into our bikes than they will ever be worth to anyone else. I'll be near $20K with mine and there are a ton of things I have not even accounted for yet, but it will be mine and I will be very proud of the end result. That's all that matters.