Topic: RC51 or CBR1000RR

[754]

Torque in relation to HP is higher n twins...
Horsepower and chassis configuration dont always help if the guy with the twin can get it to the road easier.,
I imagine any unstrapped unlowered 4 is difficult to launch hard on everyday pavement, and its easier to bog on a four, than a twin.
 Torque down low is everyday useful.....want to pass a car ...dial it n a bit..some 4,s would have to downshift to pull that hard..
 About 15 years ago my buddy rode a hot sporty on the street and there was a huge hill, on his way home..he would motor by 4,s and they would often follow him to find out WTF. It was that pulled away from them like that.
 Sure they could gear down, but by the time they tried to..it was too late.

[simon#42]

to measure torque in lb ft  you use the formula

torque = hp x5252 divided by rpm

the relationship is always the same it doesnt matter if its a twin a four or a twenty four

[Terry in Australia]

Well I think I mentioned earlier that I had an offer to trade my old K1 for an RC51. I blame this thread for re-kindeling an old desire to own the bike that kicked those rattly old Ducati's off the WSB podiums. Today was the day, and apart from the misery that is driving anywhere on Easter Monday, I had a good day. The RC51 has without doubt the most uncomfortable riding position of any bike I've ever owned but I'll bolt on some cool 3 foot Apes and some forward controls and it'll make a great cruiser!

Simon, by pure coincidence as I was towing the mighty RC51 home a guy towing a CBR1000R pulled up beside me at a set of lights. As we RC51 riders are the natural enemy of the lesser CBR Morlocks we immediately had an impromptu drag race, and I just walked away from him with my torquey 2.7 litre V6 Turbo Diesel, which was more than a match for his crappy Mondeo...............  

[simon#42]

ah but terry if you believe frank his four cylinders should have had more torque than your 6 cylinders !

my problem with the 51 is as you have found , its far to track focused to make a good road bike
and on the track its underpowered and doesnt steer very well

looks bloody great though , hope you find a pretty osteopath !

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, well it's only one of 13 bikes I've got here Simon, so I'll only ride it when I'm drunk!

[754]

Well , I see the formula came up again.. I cant really discount it..but I have found in dragracing..not everything works by formula..
 I mean take Hildo,s  bike ... Bit probably does not have 140 hp..but I bet it has at least 125 ft lbs of torque.
 Anyway our world here where I live has changed.. 40 k over and they can take your bike away..
 Less and less need for a high revving modern bike

[simon#42]

no you cant really discount a law of physics frank

[SKTP]

That thing looks amazing Terry...never saw a 2-into-1 shorty type exhaust on and RC51...looks great...are you happy?

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks mate, yep, I've wanted an RC51 for a while, I've got a VTR1000F but everyone here tells me that they are two entirely different bikes, and like any of the HRC built bikes, it's a little bit special. It'll also give me some incentive to build my 1969 CB750K0, as I still need to have a running, riding CB750 now that my K1 is gone! Cheers, Terry.

[Steve_K]

I know that riding on the street is different than the track, but here isthis:  a big twin is so much fun on the twisty roads.  I have owned a Ducati 900SS, Hawk GT, SV650 and a SV1000S. All great fun!  I also have had several 600s, 750s and ridden several Kawi 1000s.  If you can tolerate the seating position, both types are quite fun.  They both sound great.  I wanted a Ducati 916, but I just could not fit. 
How could you go wrong with either?
Steve

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

She's a beauty, Terry!  Love the Colin Edwards/Castrol livery bodywork, too.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks mate, and looking at all the expensive looking mods that PO's have made, I'm guessing a lot of Simon's concerns have been addressed too! Cheers, Terry.

[SKTP]

So since I very slowly stepping in to the RC51 market...what would be some general things you'd look for. Here's my current logic:

- SP2s only
- less than 20,000miles on them
- do they leak? If they do should I be concerned?
- no salvage titles
- the fewer the owners the better
- more stock the better?
- no obvious signs of being down
- I don't want the black one

Thoughts? Thank for all you help and expertise as always...

[akabek]

I am on my second SP1 and never an issue in either case.  If you prefer an SP2 than go for it but I would not hold back on a clean SP1.  Both of the RC51s I owned started at 17,000 KM (10,500 miles).  I always prefer low mileage vehicles.  If it is leaking it will need to be fixed.  I guess you will need to decide if it is something you want to tackle.  My current RC51 had about 10 owners so I don't think the history really matters.  If the bike is clean with low mileage that is the important part.  I have owned it for 2 years and so far only put 3,000KMs on it.  I assume some of the previous owners may have been scared to ride it or they just liked owning one.  When I bought the first RC51 I added lots of upgrades.  When I sold it I put is back mostly to stock and parted out the upgrades.  Otherwise I would have given the parts away selling it all together.  On the current bike I only changed the windscreen to a black tinted screen.  I removed the Corbin seat and bought an original seat.  I also bought a passenger seat as I prefer to use it when I add my tail back and saddle bags for long distance trips.  Lastly I removed the Tyga carbon fiber cans found some stock mufflers....easier on my ears plus I don't need a power commander.  I do like the look of the black bikes but it is the red scheme that reminds me of the true RC51.  If you are not in a rush I would look for a clean low mileage closer to stock RC51.  The upgrades are good to have but not necessary unless you plan on going to the track.

 

[grcamna2]

Solid looking bike Terry        Keep a tight hold onto your drivers license 

[simon#42]

I am on my second SP1 and never an issue in either case.  If you prefer an SP2 than go for it but I would not hold back on a clean SP1.  Both of the RC51s I owned started at 17,000 KM (10,500 miles).  I always prefer low mileage vehicles.  If it is leaking it will need to be fixed.  I guess you will need to decide if it is something you want to tackle.  My current RC51 had about 10 owners so I don't think the history really matters.  If the bike is clean with low mileage that is the important part.  I have owned it for 2 years and so far only put 3,000KMs on it.  I assume some of the previous owners may have been scared to ride it or they just liked owning one.  When I bought the first RC51 I added lots of upgrades.  When I sold it I put is back mostly to stock and parted out the upgrades.  Otherwise I would have given the parts away selling it all together.  On the current bike I only changed the windscreen to a black tinted screen.  I removed the Corbin seat and bought an original seat.  I also bought a passenger seat as I prefer to use it when I add my tail back and saddle bags for long distance trips.  Lastly I removed the Tyga carbon fiber cans found some stock mufflers....easier on my ears plus I don't need a power commander.  I do like the look of the black bikes but it is the red scheme that reminds me of the true RC51.  If you are not in a rush I would look for a clean low mileage closer to stock RC51.  The upgrades are good to have but not necessary unless you plan on going to the track.

 

good advice , i think the reason some have a lot of owners is that they are uncomfortable , i know a couple of people that have bought and sold them
quickly for this reason . i would be looking for a low milage standard bike if i were you but would not get to worried about it only having a couple of owners .
oh and they should not leak at all ..... its a bloody honda !

[akabek]

I find most bikes uncomfortable until I get some decent seat time on it.  Like anything you need to condition your body for the longer rides.  I did a 2,000 mile ride to Deals Gap a few years back and the one thing I did not like about the RC51 was the heat coming from the radiators right below your knees.  Definitely not fun in hot weather even on the highway.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

So since I very slowly stepping in to the RC51 market...what would be some general things you'd look for. Here's my current logic:

- SP2s only
- less than 20,000miles on them
- do they leak? If they do should I be concerned?
- no salvage titles
- the fewer the owners the better
- more stock the better?
- no obvious signs of being down
- I don't want the black one

Thoughts? Thank for all you help and expertise as always...

Chris,

Not expertise, but my $0.02

If you want low mileage you might want to include the black ones (years 2005-2006), since that eliminates a large pool of lower mileage bikes. 

I would not disqualify a bike for having the soft rev limiter and flapper elimination mod.  Both are harmless.  I would not cut out bikes modded with Ohlins shock, steering damper, braided steel brake lines or a decent aftermarket exhaust. 

DO avoid any bikes with apparent damage, high mileage, racing.  A low mileage bike should be as tight as a drum -- and run/shift ultra smooth. 

[SKTP]

I guess my very general question is...do they leak?

My 1966 S90 leaks, my 1978 Cb750 leaks (hopefully not anymore soon), Mu 2003 Ducation M800ie leaked, my girl's 1979 Triumph 140e leaks...am I crazy to think an Rc51 doesn't leak?

[akabek]

I guess my very general question is...do they leak?

My 1966 S90 leaks, my 1978 Cb750 leaks (hopefully not anymore soon), Mu 2003 Ducation M800ie leaked, my girl's 1979 Triumph 140e leaks...am I crazy to think an Rc51 doesn't leak?

Eventually everything will leak.  It should not be difficult to find a clean low mileage bike that is not leaking.  If you haven't already sign up to rc51forums.com 

[Terry in Australia]

Well all good advice above guys, low mileage unscathed bikes are always the best to find, my Triumph Rocket III has been in the family since new (it had 20 miles on the odo when I bought it from my brother who bought it new, rode it home, and decided that it overwhelmed his riding abilities) and my Harley XLH1200 Sportster had only done 4000 miles in 21 years, but over here where we don't have "Riding Seasons" (i.e., our bikes are ridden in all seasons) much higher mileages are common, and acceptable.

Now RC51's are much rarer in Oz than in the US, so less choice for prospective RC51 buyers. To compound this for me, was the fact that I couldn't afford to buy an RC51 (average price here is $10K AUD or $7500 USD) and if it wasn't for the fact that Ben, the PO of my bike, advertised it on Gumtree (Craigslist equivalent) with a "May swap for CB750", or I still wouldn't have one.

Mine has done 40,000 miles, but that's not an issue for me, I like to think that I've got reasonably good mechanical ability and could tell that this bike was in great condition mechanically, and the RC51's have an excellent reputation for mechanical reliability, way better than the Ducati's that the SP1 mopped the floor with back in the day.

It has been down the road, there is a little scarring on the left side of the tank that's going to be an easy repair, and the fairing panels are aftermarket. Once again, not unusual for a 17 year old sportsbike with 40,000 miles, and in my short test ride, I didn't notice any unusual steering etc. From everything I've read over the last week or so, the RC51 is a very sturdy bike, so a light drop shouldn't be an issue. Here, if an insurance company writes off a bike, it's almost impossible to put back on the road. road. Mine is registered in one of our most restrictive states until February next year, so no issue there.

Whenever I buy a new (to me) bike I like to sit down beside it and look at all the cool accessories that PO's have added, and with the SP1, I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't familiar with all the brand names of the performance accessories, so I googled them, and realised that there are over $4K worth of quality "Go Faster" parts fitted, not to mention the Metzler Racetech tyres. It's got the Power Commander to smooth out the fuel delivery issues and give it a few extra BHP in concert with the carbon fibre airbox and ram air snorkel, 2 into 1 exhaust etc, the soft limiter has been removed, it has a cool gear indicator/shift light, it's got the Kyle Racing rear suspension linkage, 15/41 gearing change, Hyper Pro steering damper, Kaneg adjustable rearsets, etc etc. I'm guessing that one "well heeled" owner spent a lot of money addressing any of the RC51's perceived issues, and making it a lot more "Track Worthy", ha ha!

I don't know how much riding I'll be doing on it, I'm an old fat man and sportsbikes really aren't my thing, but I'll be happy to take it for regular short rides before I return it to my garage and jump on one of my more "Terry Friendly" bikes. To me that's not an issue either, the SP1 is already becoming "Collectable", and as mine is a very early version (VIN #161) I think it'll be a nice addition to my motley "collection"......... Cheers, Terry.  

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Be wary of signs of abuse.  A well-kept, clean bike with no leaks than runs and shifts smooth is a reasonable target.  There are MANY examples of RC51 that were ridden like the owner thought he was Nicky Hayden but the rider's ambition outweighed their talent.  Find the anal-retentive owner -- maybe a little older -- who treated the bike well.  Then you'll have a better chance of a longer, less-troublesome ownership.

[Terry in Australia]

And of course beware of bikes that have been stored for years without being run. Valve springs that have been held open in one position for years weaken and break, moisture inside engines causes acids that attack an engine's internals causing pistons to seize in bores and gaskets and seals dry out causing leaks. Coolant goes bad causing corrosion, seized water pumps and radiator blockages, hoses go hard and crack, tires go hard and crack, fuel tanks rust out from bad fuel, foam filters turn to dust that's sucked into carbs/throttle bodies, fork seals and rear shock seals go hard and leak, batteries go bad, etc etc.

If you can find that one middle aged anally retentive owner who rides his RC51 regularly for short distances to keep everything in order (but doesn't :baby" it either, that's not a good thing) and maintains it religiously then jump on it, and good luck! Cheers, Terry.      

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

And of course beware of bikes that have been stored for years without being run. Valve springs that have been held open in one position for years weaken and break, moisture inside engines causes acids that attack an engine's internals causing pistons to seize in bores and gaskets and seals dry out causing leaks. Coolant goes bad causing corrosion, seized water pumps and radiator blockages, hoses go hard and crack, tires go hard and crack, fuel tanks rust out from bad fuel, foam filters turn to dust that's sucked into carbs/throttle bodies, fork seals and rear shock seals go hard and leak, batteries go bad, etc etc.

If you can find that one middle aged anally retentive owner who rides his RC51 regularly for short distances to keep everything in order (but doesn't :baby" it either, that's not a good thing) and maintains it religiously then jump on it, and good luck! Cheers, Terry.    

Damn, Chris.  You really should have bought mine!  It was one of the black ones though!

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, the worst part about "Special" bikes (and special cars for that matter) is that at a point in their lives they become cheap enough for young guys to own, usually young guys who have no sympathy for their history or "pedigree", but rather, are much more interested in revving the piss out of them and practising their wheelies and stoppies. I've recently become addicted to youtube, where there are several vids of RC51's being thrown away by young guys who really don't give a schidt about their bikes.

So you've got to weigh that up against the other extreme, a bike that's been parked up for a long time without any maintenance. My Rocket III could have ended up like that, my brother and his wife separated shortly after he bought it, so it sat in his garage for almost 2 years before he offered to sell it to me, so even though it only had 20 miles on the odometer, it probably should have had a full service before I rode it the 1000+ miles home. I had it's first service conducted the following Saturday and it checked out fine, but in hindsight, it wasn't my best idea. Oh well..........

Anyway, if you're going to look for a really low mileage bike that's obviously been parked without turning a wheel for long periods, keep in mind that it might look way better on the outside, than it does on the inside.