Author Topic: Tire shopping time  (Read 4728 times)

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Offline Scott S

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Tire shopping time
« on: March 11, 2017, 06:11:31 PM »
 I tend to run as close as possible to the stock sizes on my 550's. The current build will be using Lester mags and the front is wider than stock at 2.15" (vs. 1.85" stock, I believe). Not sure how wide the rear is. It's not stamped and there's an old tire currently mounted.

 With the stock 1.85" rim I'd be looking for a 90/90-19 or 3.25-19. MAYBE a 100/90-19. But what about with the added width of the Lester? Just go with the 100/90-19?

 Same question about the rear. Stock is 100/90-18, or 3.75-19 don't know of a 3.75-18, only 4.00-18. I could swing a 110/90-18.

 Give me your thoughts on sizes AND brands. Looking at Avon Roadriders, as they're available in both sizes, as well as Bridgestone's.
 Looking for a pretty decent tire to take advantage of the R6 forks and Ikon shocks.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 06:14:44 PM by Scott S »
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Offline eigenvector

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 06:14:34 PM »
The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.
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Offline Scott S

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 06:21:21 PM »
 Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 07:18:35 PM »
Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.


I have the Avon Roadriders in both 3.50-19 and 4.00-18, and 100/90-19 and 120-90/18. The former are on the bike now (CB750), the latter are headed for it.

The "inch" size ones are the same tire carcass and round-wrap profile core as the metric ones. The outer tread on the inch versions are merely a different thickness and width, and don't wrap around quite as far as the metric ones. In other words, they just LOOK inch-y, and are slightly smaller, in between the 100/90-19 and 110/90-19 (sort of like a 105/90-19) for the front one, and in between 110-90/18 and 120-90/18 for the rear one (sort of like a 115/90-18). Other than this apparent half-step size, they appear to be the same type tire and build.

However - they are slightly undersize in height, compared to their REAL inch cousins, which I have an old pair of (3.25x19 and 4.00x18 Bridgestones) on some spare wheels: the inch ones are taller by about 1/4" overall. This affected the handling on my 750 enough that I sprung for new 100/90 front and 1290/90 rear to get back the more solid 'line' in corners under power.

But, as some here have noted - I am PICKY...   ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Imago

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 10:25:36 PM »
Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.


I have the Avon Roadriders in both 3.50-19 and 4.00-18, and 100/90-19 and 120-90/18. The former are on the bike now (CB750), the latter are headed for it.

The "inch" size ones are the same tire carcass and round-wrap profile core as the metric ones. The outer tread on the inch versions are merely a different thickness and width, and don't wrap around quite as far as the metric ones. In other words, they just LOOK inch-y, and are slightly smaller, in between the 100/90-19 and 110/90-19 (sort of like a 105/90-19) for the front one, and in between 110-90/18 and 120-90/18 for the rear one (sort of like a 115/90-18). Other than this apparent half-step size, they appear to be the same type tire and build.

However - they are slightly undersize in height, compared to their REAL inch cousins, which I have an old pair of (3.25x19 and 4.00x18 Bridgestones) on some spare wheels: the inch ones are taller by about 1/4" overall. This affected the handling on my 750 enough that I sprung for new 100/90 front and 1290/90 rear to get back the more solid 'line' in corners under power.

But, as some here have noted - I am PICKY...   ;)
Well now... I always thought the inch sizes, (3.25 X 19 and 4.00 X 18) would make the bike handle better as they were the OEM sizes. Mark, are you saying you prefer the handling of the metric sizes? If so, I may have to rethink my choices for my new build... or am I missing something?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 10:28:12 PM by Imago »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2017, 10:54:09 PM »
Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.


I have the Avon Roadriders in both 3.50-19 and 4.00-18, and 100/90-19 and 120-90/18. The former are on the bike now (CB750), the latter are headed for it.

The "inch" size ones are the same tire carcass and round-wrap profile core as the metric ones. The outer tread on the inch versions are merely a different thickness and width, and don't wrap around quite as far as the metric ones. In other words, they just LOOK inch-y, and are slightly smaller, in between the 100/90-19 and 110/90-19 (sort of like a 105/90-19) for the front one, and in between 110-90/18 and 120-90/18 for the rear one (sort of like a 115/90-18). Other than this apparent half-step size, they appear to be the same type tire and build.

However - they are slightly undersize in height, compared to their REAL inch cousins, which I have an old pair of (3.25x19 and 4.00x18 Bridgestones) on some spare wheels: the inch ones are taller by about 1/4" overall. This affected the handling on my 750 enough that I sprung for new 100/90 front and 1290/90 rear to get back the more solid 'line' in corners under power.

But, as some here have noted - I am PICKY...   ;)
Well now... I always thought the inch sizes, (3.25 X 19 and 4.00 X 18) would make the bike handle better as they were the OEM sizes. Mark, are you saying you prefer the handling of the metric sizes? If so, I may have to rethink my choices for my new build... or am I missing something?

While I like(d) the inch sizes better, because their roll-attack angle profiles match the chassis, the modern inch sizes are not the same profile, nor is their construction the same. For one [big] thing, the bias-wrap design of the metric tires is at a different angle from the old type, so they stand taller than wide, even when sold as inch sizes, as the tire molds are all the same metric type. The one exception to this was the now-long-gone trigonometric tire (Dunlop K81 TT100 from UK, not Japan), which was a vee profile done in the same bias angles as the modern metrics, but with a narrow flat middle and wide, slanted sides that laid a bigger patch on the road when heeled over than when upright. These were expensive tires, born of roadracing and modified to use street-rubber compounds. Interestingly, this (my old favorites) made a better grip in the wet both upright and cornered, as upright it had a large center groove to let water out of the patch, and heeled over had large blocked grooves with a wider contact surface. To get this sort of performance in the metrics, we have to run considerably higher tire pressures to ensure the patch does not roll under when cornering with the bias arrangement they all use today (except those silly touring radials for Gold Wings and Harleys that don't corner so much - they roll under anyway!).

To make my Roadriders grip well when rolling side-to-side, I run about 38 PSI in the front and near 40 in the rear (1-up riding) with the 3.50 front and 4.00 rear. When doing it with the 100/90 front and 120/90 rear, I run equal pressure both ends. When I ran the 110/90 rear with the 100/90 front, I had +2 in the rear tire to make it "stay straight" when heeling over and then coming back up, with 36 PI up front and 38 PSI in the back. This wasn't enough: those tires wore in their centers too quickly, indicating the overall PSI was on the low side, but at least they flexed evenly with the 2 PSI difference.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 11:51:50 PM »
Good with tire pressure experiences.
I'll use higher pressure coming season in my Dunlop StreetSmart 100/90-19, 120/90-18.
My ongoing project, a CB750 K2 will get same tires except different size rear since it has a NOS Henry Abe 7-star wheel. 100/90-19, 123/90-16. I'll see how the tires will work together when cornering.
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CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Scott S

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2017, 04:18:58 AM »
Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.


I have the Avon Roadriders in both 3.50-19 and 4.00-18, and 100/90-19 and 120-90/18. The former are on the bike now (CB750), the latter are headed for it.

The "inch" size ones are the same tire carcass and round-wrap profile core as the metric ones. The outer tread on the inch versions are merely a different thickness and width, and don't wrap around quite as far as the metric ones. In other words, they just LOOK inch-y, and are slightly smaller, in between the 100/90-19 and 110/90-19 (sort of like a 105/90-19) for the front one, and in between 110-90/18 and 120-90/18 for the rear one (sort of like a 115/90-18). Other than this apparent half-step size, they appear to be the same type tire and build.

However - they are slightly undersize in height, compared to their REAL inch cousins, which I have an old pair of (3.25x19 and 4.00x18 Bridgestones) on some spare wheels: the inch ones are taller by about 1/4" overall. This affected the handling on my 750 enough that I sprung for new 100/90 front and 1290/90 rear to get back the more solid 'line' in corners under power.

But, as some here have noted - I am PICKY...   ;)

 This is EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for. I'm leaning towards the Avon's myself.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2017, 05:19:12 AM »
 What about the front width? With the wider Lester? Stay with 90/90 or go with 100/90?
'71 CB500 K0
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2017, 08:54:50 AM »
Also, the Avon lists the AM26 both ways; as 90/90-19 and 3.25-19. Several sites have them both listed, as if they're different tires. Is the cross section really different? Would Avon do that?

The real question is what are you going to do with it?

Standard road travel nothing wacky - I'd stick with Battleaxes, pretty solid tire.

 I was looking at the Spitfire, too.


I have the Avon Roadriders in both 3.50-19 and 4.00-18, and 100/90-19 and 120-90/18. The former are on the bike now (CB750), the latter are headed for it.

The "inch" size ones are the same tire carcass and round-wrap profile core as the metric ones. The outer tread on the inch versions are merely a different thickness and width, and don't wrap around quite as far as the metric ones. In other words, they just LOOK inch-y, and are slightly smaller, in between the 100/90-19 and 110/90-19 (sort of like a 105/90-19) for the front one, and in between 110-90/18 and 120-90/18 for the rear one (sort of like a 115/90-18). Other than this apparent half-step size, they appear to be the same type tire and build.

However - they are slightly undersize in height, compared to their REAL inch cousins, which I have an old pair of (3.25x19 and 4.00x18 Bridgestones) on some spare wheels: the inch ones are taller by about 1/4" overall. This affected the handling on my 750 enough that I sprung for new 100/90 front and 1290/90 rear to get back the more solid 'line' in corners under power.

But, as some here have noted - I am PICKY...   ;)
Well now... I always thought the inch sizes, (3.25 X 19 and 4.00 X 18) would make the bike handle better as they were the OEM sizes. Mark, are you saying you prefer the handling of the metric sizes? If so, I may have to rethink my choices for my new build... or am I missing something?

While I like(d) the inch sizes better, because their roll-attack angle profiles match the chassis, the modern inch sizes are not the same profile, nor is their construction the same. For one [big] thing, the bias-wrap design of the metric tires is at a different angle from the old type, so they stand taller than wide, even when sold as inch sizes, as the tire molds are all the same metric type. The one exception to this was the now-long-gone trigonometric tire (Dunlop K81 TT100 from UK, not Japan), which was a vee profile done in the same bias angles as the modern metrics, but with a narrow flat middle and wide, slanted sides that laid a bigger patch on the road when heeled over than when upright. These were expensive tires, born of roadracing and modified to use street-rubber compounds. Interestingly, this (my old favorites) made a better grip in the wet both upright and cornered, as upright it had a large center groove to let water out of the patch, and heeled over had large blocked grooves with a wider contact surface. To get this sort of performance in the metrics, we have to run considerably higher tire pressures to ensure the patch does not roll under when cornering with the bias arrangement they all use today (except those silly touring radials for Gold Wings and Harleys that don't corner so much - they roll under anyway!).

To make my Roadriders grip well when rolling side-to-side, I run about 38 PSI in the front and near 40 in the rear (1-up riding) with the 3.50 front and 4.00 rear. When doing it with the 100/90 front and 120/90 rear, I run equal pressure both ends. When I ran the 110/90 rear with the 100/90 front, I had +2 in the rear tire to make it "stay straight" when heeling over and then coming back up, with 36 PI up front and 38 PSI in the back. This wasn't enough: those tires wore in their centers too quickly, indicating the overall PSI was on the low side, but at least they flexed evenly with the 2 PSI difference.

Interesting info, HM.   High tire pressure typically wears tires prematurely in their center contact area. 

I too, like to run pressures near 40 for aggressive riding. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2017, 10:11:31 AM »
I run an Avon 'Roadrider' 90/90x18" size and noticed it sat lower/closer to the rim(it's also wider) from the bottom of the tread than the 3.00x18"(it was a little taller) I removed from the bike previously on the CB400F front and does handle slower now.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Scott S

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 05:07:29 AM »
 Chaparral was having a sale so I pulled the trigger on some Avon Roadrider AM26's. Went with 100/90-19 in the front and 110/90-18 in the rear.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline tlbranth

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 06:11:56 PM »
I don't care one whit how cool a tire looks or how it corners at 130 mph. How many miles can I get out of a set of these Avon Roadriders?
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 07:22:50 PM »
I don't care one whit how cool a tire looks or how it corners at 130 mph. How many miles can I get out of a set of these Avon Roadriders?

I've been doing good w/ mine compared to an IRC oem-style replacement cheap tire,a good tire.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 09:06:21 PM »
I don't care one whit how cool a tire looks or how it corners at 130 mph. How many miles can I get out of a set of these Avon Roadriders?

I have approx 1500 mi on mine and still look like new.  They have a relitively soft rubber compound, so if looking for the longest lasting tire, this is most likely not it.   
I prefer grip over mileage.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flybox1

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 07:12:05 AM »
I can get a SHINKO 712 front AND rear for the same price as an AVON AM26 front.  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline Scott S

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 07:27:13 AM »
I can get a SHINKO 712 front AND rear for the same price as an AVON AM26 front.  ;D


 I've used those before and they're fine. But if I'm splurging on an R6 front end and iKon shocks, I want better tires to take advantage of it.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 07:30:34 AM »
I can get a SHINKO 712 front AND rear for the same price as an AVON AM26 front.  ;D


 I've used those before and they're fine. But if I'm splurging on an R6 front end and iKon shocks, I want better tires to take advantage of it.

+1...I dont put Avons on all my bikes but did put them on my Z1. Wanted one of the best rated tires on that bike. It's not always about the money, ya know?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flybox1

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2017, 07:38:37 AM »
No doubt!
Avons on my 350F completely changed it from a weekend tiddler to a bike I wanted to push.
Good tires make a huge difference.
My K8 came with these alsmost-new Shinkos.  They are a very durable tire.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2017, 06:58:58 PM »
No doubt!
Avons on my 350F completely changed it from a weekend tiddler to a bike I wanted to push.
Good tires make a huge difference.
My K8 came with these alsmost-new Shinkos.  They are a very durable tire.
yeah, they do last a long time, so long that I kept sayin' to myself,  "please, please wear out soon so I can get some decent gripping tires..."
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2017, 07:08:27 PM »
No doubt!
Avons on my 350F completely changed it from a weekend tiddler to a bike I wanted to push.
Good tires make a huge difference.
My K8 came with these alsmost-new Shinkos.  They are a very durable tire.
yeah, they do last a long time, so long that I kept sayin' to myself,  "please, please wear out soon so I can get some decent gripping tires..."

HA!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Camrector

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2017, 07:15:23 PM »
+1 for avon road riders. 100f 120r on the Lester's is perfect!

Offline markreimer

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 11:43:49 AM »
I've got a pair of Avon roadriders on my '74 cb350F.

I did a 4,500km tour that was almost 100% on straight roads (had to cross the Canadian prairies to get to the mountains). They have very little wear. Rider weight is around 155lbs, plus 20lbs of gear.

I think I'm running mid 30's for pressure. Whatever the manual stated. I love these tires. They give me a TON of confidence in the twisty stuff compared to the old Kenda's I had on there before. I like them a lot more than the Bridgestone BT45's on my 750 right now, and those are pretty decent tires...

Offline flybox1

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2017, 11:45:12 AM »
No doubt!
Avons on my 350F completely changed it from a weekend tiddler to a bike I wanted to push.
Good tires make a huge difference.
My K8 came with these alsmost-new Shinkos.  They are a very durable tire.
yeah, they do last a long time, so long that I kept sayin' to myself,  "please, please wear out soon so I can get some decent gripping tires..."
^ lmao...yeah. Im there right now.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline ofreen

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Re: Tire shopping time
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2017, 12:52:45 PM »
I don't care one whit how cool a tire looks or how it corners at 130 mph. How many miles can I get out of a set of these Avon Roadriders?
I have approx 1500 mi on mine and still look like new.  They have a relitively soft rubber compound, so if looking for the longest lasting tire, this is most likely not it.   
I prefer grip over mileage.

For these old bikes those two things are not mutually exclusive.  Which is why I lament the demise of the Metzeler ME88 rear tire.
Greg
'75 CB750F

"I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question." - Dr. Wei-Hock Soon