Author Topic: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold  (Read 3696 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:30:37 AM »
Wassup Fellas,

Been lurking the site and gathered a lot of insight on these bikes. Ive searched my topic but cant seem to get a conclusion.

My bike is stock, carbs clean, gas in bowls, breather working, getting spark, kick start first kick, bad starter solenoid, fresh oil and plugs.

For some reason #1 will not heat up. I pulled the plug lastnite and it is getting spark, no arcing.

This is what threw me in my troubleshooting, I switched 1 & 4 to see if 4 got cold... it didn't! both got hot!

Have you guys experienced this crap? Bad coils? Maybe a short? I will say that the coils appear to be the original set from 1976.
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2017, 10:40:18 AM »
Sorry I was mistaken, when I switched plugs #1 was still cold.

Got to be carbs? any way to test then without removing?
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline innovativems

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,029
    • Innovative MotoSports
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2017, 11:01:19 AM »
Yep sounds like a carb issue.  Does it heat up when you give it some throttle?   Just sounds like a blocked passage in the carb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2007 KTM 990 adv
2003 Honda RC51
2000 Yamaha YSR50
1978 Honda Express
1975 Honda CB400f
1974 Honda CB350f
1974 Kawi H2
1974 Honda CB550f
1971 Kawi h1
1973 Kawi h1
1974 gt 550
1974 gt550

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2017, 11:39:49 AM »
Inno,

When I drive it it gets hot.

I checked the a/f mixture valve and it was bottomed out, no movement like the rest. So I backed it out and it got warmer.

I'm thinking when the carbs were rebuilt dude just slapped them back on the bike.

I'm going to sync the carbs and ride it hard. LOL

06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline DaveBarbier

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,620
76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2017, 12:42:25 PM »
If it's a stock bike then the idle mixture screw should be set to the stock setting which would be in the manual. If I were you I'd count how many turns each IMS takes until lightly seated then compare it to the manual.

If only when idling that cylinder is cold that makes sense if the IMS is closed completely. As you ride you use the pilot jet and main jet so it would "wake up" that cylinder.

Edit: after that, I'd ride the hell out of it

Offline david 750f

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 827
  • 1976 CB750F
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2017, 12:50:07 PM »
Did you switch 1 and 4 plugs or the plug wires? If the symptom doesn't follow the plug wire then it's the carbs.
1976 CB 750F

Offline 700504

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2017, 12:58:14 PM »
Could also be bad valve seats or other compression loss.
1978 cb750k
1977 cb750f2
1974 cb750k
1973 cb750k
1981 cb650 (rip)
1969 ct90

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2017, 04:28:55 PM »
I switched the plugs and caps, problem didn't follow, but it's getting spark.

I pulled the carbs and cleaned them again, no luck. I'm going to check compression and timing. If those all check out. I'm gonna take it to a specialist lol.

Anybody know the cost of the 3k service?
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline david 750f

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 827
  • 1976 CB750F
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2017, 04:46:41 PM »
Did you try switching the wires? From 1 to 4? Not just the caps but the whole wire.
1976 CB 750F

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2017, 05:55:24 PM »
Yes, move plug 4 to 1, same thing.

I searched a bit more and some one said 550s will cut one cylinder when battery gets low. Sounds possible!
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline 700504

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2017, 08:09:50 PM »
compression test for sure
1978 cb750k
1977 cb750f2
1974 cb750k
1973 cb750k
1981 cb650 (rip)
1969 ct90

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,020
  • I refuse...
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2017, 05:32:57 AM »
Yes, move plug 4 to 1, same thing.

I searched a bit more and some one said 550s will cut one cylinder when battery gets low. Sounds possible!
Not true.
compression test for sure
Unnecessary and unlikely.
Yep sounds like a carb issue.  Does it heat up when you give it some throttle?   Just sounds like a blocked passage in the carb
Here's your likely culprit.

You've answered your own question and identified the problem here:
When I drive it it gets hot.
I checked the a/f mixture valve and it was bottomed out, no movement like the rest. So I backed it out and it got warmer.
I'm thinking when the carbs were rebuilt dude just slapped them back on the bike.
Either clean the #1 carb properly, or have someone else do it. Simple as that.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2017, 06:37:06 AM »
Calj, thanks! I like your cut dry response.

06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,121
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2017, 10:28:58 AM »
What does the sparkplugnose look like? Did you check fuellevel in carb #1. If fuel doesn't reach the bowl and you suspect a sticking floatneedle, tap the bowl with the stub end of a screwdriver. Maybe floatneedle frees itself. If not, floatbowl #1 on your model is easy to remove with the rack still in situ. You could check if pilot jet is still in it's place and hasn't dropped (happened). Is the tiny O-ring around the mainjet still OK and does it seal well? If not, too much fuel will be sucked up around it.
All this can be done by just removing the bowl and leave the carbrack in place. Here's how to do it.
1. Unscrew the 4 floatbowl screws (I advise them later to be replaced by same size allen screws)
2. Pull floatbowl carefully downwards in a straight line.
3. Remove springleaf
4. remove float by carefully(!) extracting it's swivelpin. Do not exercise force. Some manage to break their whatever it is called (towers?). If the swingpin is hard to extract, spray some WD-40. Caution: whilst removing the float, have your free hand cupped under it to collect the tiny floatneedle that will fall down. Don't loose it! They are expensive.
5. Pull the main jet using your thumb and finger. Some wiggling does it.
6. After removing the main jets twist the throttle wide open in order to raise the slides and with them the needles. Now with your free hand insert from below a match or wooden toothpick into the needle jets (aka emulsion tubes). When that is snug in the needle jet, cant or turn the wooden toothpick a mm or so and you can wiggle the emulsion tube out easily. Some WD-40 at forehand can help. Essential in this procedure is that you open the throttle to have the needles raised. BTW, sometimes the needle jets just drop by themselves after the main jet is removed, so start with your hand cupped under it.
7. Use a small screwdriver 'slid in sideways (horizontally)' to unscrew the slow jet. Think first and make sure you turn it in the right direction. Gently!
8. Now all parts can be inspected and cleaned. Don't forget to carefully inspect the tiny O-rings that seal the main jets.
9. Install in reverse order. Do not overtighten the slow jets!
10  Install floatbowl using new little allen screws instead of the old dreadful crosshead screws. Much easier for future removals.

You need to be at ease and well concentrated. Don't hurry. Make it a Zen exercise . I can do it blindfolded and after the first time so can you.
This method can be exercised with 022A, 069A, 087A, 627B, 649A carbs.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 11:51:35 AM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline dcooksey001

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2017, 02:05:27 PM »
That was the case with my 72 500...couldn't figure it out for the life of me then I pulled the head off and had bent valve stems so if checking the carbs don't fix it pull the head

Sent from my SM-S902L using Tapatalk


Offline innovativems

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,029
    • Innovative MotoSports
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2017, 02:17:25 PM »
If it's firing when he applies throttle its carb related


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2007 KTM 990 adv
2003 Honda RC51
2000 Yamaha YSR50
1978 Honda Express
1975 Honda CB400f
1974 Honda CB350f
1974 Kawi H2
1974 Honda CB550f
1971 Kawi h1
1973 Kawi h1
1974 gt 550
1974 gt550

Offline BomberMann650

  • Holy Cow! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,413
  • Dr. Bovinestein iBa#80333
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 02:27:43 PM »
3k service on a vintage cb will cost ya about 5 hours labor at the $120/hr vintage repair rate.

It's enough to pay for the tools and beer you'll need to fix it yourself.

Carb clean is about a 3.5 hour job at any shop

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 03:25:14 PM »
Delta!!! That's exactly what I needed to here!!

Thx SOHC!!! Loving my bike again.
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2017, 06:37:31 AM »
Are supposed to be able to blow through you pilot jet once it's removed?

Like putting between your lips and blow through it.
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline innovativems

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,029
    • Innovative MotoSports
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2017, 06:59:29 AM »
Yes and you should be able to see light through it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2007 KTM 990 adv
2003 Honda RC51
2000 Yamaha YSR50
1978 Honda Express
1975 Honda CB400f
1974 Honda CB350f
1974 Kawi H2
1974 Honda CB550f
1971 Kawi h1
1973 Kawi h1
1974 gt 550
1974 gt550

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,121
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2017, 07:06:43 AM »
Yes , or use stranded copper wire to clean. Just make sure that whatever you clean it with, is softer than the brass the jets are made of. If you have a can with compressed air or carbcleaner with a straw you can squirt in all orifices. Usually that's enough. If it doesn't work out satisfactorily, then (and only then) you may consider removing the rack. BTW, I do not recommend separating carbs from the rack.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2017, 08:24:25 AM »
Well that's why my cylinder is cold.

I can blow and see thru the main, smh
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline DaveBarbier

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,620
76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2017, 09:15:22 AM »
Heat gun or kiss it with some propane for a bit. Wire (careful to not enlarge the hole like Delta says), carb cleaner and compressed air and you'll be good to go.

Offline FIREBLADE74

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2017, 10:06:13 AM »
Just to make sure we're on the same page I'm talking about the jet that screws out with the small holes along the sides.
06 CBR1000RR, 76 CB550

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,121
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: 76 550F SS, cylinder #1 is Cold
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2017, 10:18:11 AM »
Quote
Just to make sure we're on the same page I'm talking about the jet that screws out with the small holes along the sides.
Yep, these slow jets are prone to become partially blocked. Todays gas and a long period of time sitting doesn't help either. The orifice in that jet is so small that fuel tends to hang in there. Lighter fractions of the fuel will evaporate leaving the other stuff to remain. K3 model slow jets with their PDcarbs suffer most of this. Once cleaned, I recommend to run your bike (for at least one tank) with a fuel additive that helps to (keep) clean the fuel system.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."