Topic: 64 cb77 resto-mod

[jgger]

That's great. I take interest in this as my 65 CL72 is about 2 long projects down the line........after many, many, many honey do's. Good luck with that bad boy!

[02z06dave]

That's great. I take interest in this as my 65 CL72 is about 2 long projects down the line........after many, many, many honey do's. Good luck with that bad boy!

Thanks. That cl72 is a rare bike. You don't see those around ever.

[02z06dave]

I finally got this thing running half way decent. The new insulator and o ring did the trick for the popping at idle. I got about a 30 minute ride in. It's just slightly popping on decel. This is where my inexperience with carbs shows. Do I need to move the needle? Bigger mains? Richen the idle mixture? It otherwise ran very well and I enjoyed riding it for the first time ever. I got used to the clubmans after about 20 minutes. I may stick it out with them a bit longer.

The old clutch discs I put back in are worn, it slips a little. I'll have to order new stock discs.

Back when I had the wheels trued, the shop said the old rims were a little out of round, but it probably wouldn't be noticeable. Well... it is. I'll stick it out with these until winter then I'm going to have to spring for some new aluminum rims.

[RAFster122s]

You are running lean on decelleration possibly...

David Silvers Spares sometimes has a good price on rims...fwiw


Did you sand your metal discs for the clutch on a sheet of plate glass or on a marble/granite countertop or surfacing plate?
Cleaning them up and ensuring they are flat helps to tell if you need to just replace them.

Carb sounds like it needs a tweak or twon on the mixture screw.  Plug chops at idle, low, and wot are going to tell you if it is running lean or rich, so stock up on new plugs to do these chops...unless you are going to put it on a dyno with a Exhaust CO2 sniffer up the muffler.

[02z06dave]

I pulled the carbs and cleaned them again and went through the whole setup process again. It is a little better this time around. It pops from the right side at idle until its warmed up and pops very minimally on decel as well.  I tried calling a couple local and semi local shops that work on vintage bikes to see if they would take a look. They all told me they aren't taking more work until next year because they are too backed up.  I'm not sure what else to try, so I'm just giving up for now and I'll ride it as is.

Another new issue has crept up as well. Gas is leaking from the cap pretty badly.  This hasn't really been an issue until now, but now each time I ride it, I have gas to clean up from the top of the tank. It is a brand new cap with a new cork seal. I tried the old cap with a new rubber seal and it was worse. The problem is bad enough that the paint bubbled and is now destroyed around the cap area and extending out a little further. I'm pretty bummed about that because it wasn't really a cheap paint job and now its thoroughly f-ed up. Suggestions on a remedy are welcome. I really have no idea what to do. My 450 has the same cap only its old with an old seal and it doesn't leak at all. The tank is only half full so I don't think over filling is the problem.

[02z06dave]

After a lot more messing around with the carbs and some timing adjustments, I finally got it running pretty good. I'm going to call this thing done. I'll need to get the tank touched up or repainted but I'll wait until winter for that.
Thanks to everyone for suggestions and contrutions

[Stev-o]

Good to hear Dave, nice job, I had faith in you!

How 'bout some glamor shots when you have it out next time?

[I dislike shop pics, they never show how nice a bike really looks in the sunshine]

[jas67]

http://www.mrhonda.guru/2017/04/how-many-experts-does-it-take-to-make.html

Also, you might want to post over on the Honda305 forum:
http://www.honda305.com/forum/index.htm

[02z06dave]

Good to hear Dave, nice job, I had faith in you!

How 'bout some glamor shots when you have it out next time?

[I dislike shop pics, they never show how nice a bike really looks in the sunshine]

Thanks. Here are a few from a couple weeks ago. I have since added a small main stand stop and new foot rubbers, as well as, put the little clutch cable adjuster cover in it's correct spot. I have no clue how I missed that little detail for so long.

[jas67]

Looks great, though, it looks like you've lost your stator cover.   

[02z06dave]

Looks great, though, it looks like you've lost your stator cover.   

I did that partially as a tribute to some of the old race bikes and partially because mine had a crack in it

[jas67]

I'd like to do a resto-mod of one of my super hawks to look like this one!


https://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/05/repli-racer-1963-honda-cr-77-replica/

[02z06dave]

I'd like to do a resto-mod of one of my super hawks to look like this one!


https://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/05/repli-racer-1963-honda-cr-77-replica/

Yeah, that looks awesome. That's sort of the direction I'm going with my cb160

[jas67]

Oh, then definitely check out this one built by none other than Mr. Honda himself, Bill Silver!
It was built on a CB160 with a CL175 sloper engine that brings more displace and a 5 speed transmission to the table.

I like this method of getting a tach on it:
"CB160s were not originally equipped with a tach, or a provision for a tachometer drive on the engine. Thanks to the CL175 engine swap and the use of a late K3-model tach drive, the seller was able to use a late CB77/305 Super Hawk instrument binnacle in the stock CB160 headlight shell."



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-honda-cb160-cr93-clone/

Hmmm, I've got two CB160's, three '68 CL175 (sloper motor), a spare vertical-cylinder CB175 cylinder head that can donate the tachometer drive, and a CB77/305 Superhawk that can donate the speed/tach instrument.    All I need is the custom tank and seat, and I'm in business!

Although, with 5 super hawks (four of which are somewhat rough), I'm leaning more towards doing up a Superhawk with this look.  Although despite the 130cc deficit, the 5-speed CL175 sloper isn't really that much slower than a Superhawk.

[02z06dave]

Oh, then definitely check out this one built by none other than Mr. Honda himself, Bill Silver!
It was built on a CB160 with a CL175 sloper engine that brings more displace and a 5 speed transmission to the table.

I like this method of getting a tach on it:
"CB160s were not originally equipped with a tach, or a provision for a tachometer drive on the engine. Thanks to the CL175 engine swap and the use of a late K3-model tach drive, the seller was able to use a late CB77/305 Super Hawk instrument binnacle in the stock CB160 headlight shell."



https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-honda-cb160-cr93-clone/

Hmmm, I've got two CB160's, three '68 CL175 (sloper motor), a spare vertical-cylinder CB175 cylinder head that can donate the tachometer drive, and a CB77/305 Superhawk that can donate the speed/tach instrument.    All I need is the custom tank and seat, and I'm in business!

Although, with 5 super hawks (four of which are somewhat rough), I'm leaning more towards doing up a Superhawk with this look.  Although despite the 130cc deficit, the 5-speed CL175 sloper isn't really that much slower than a Superhawk.

I sold the 160 engine planning to put in a 175, but haven't found one yet. If you want to unload one of your 175 engines, let me know

[jas67]

If you think you want to do a full rebuild on one, I've got one that is stuck that I'll let you have reasonably cheaply.

I've got carbs too, though, I plan to sell them ultrasonically cleaned and fully setup to bolt on and run (to get more $$ for my projects, of course).

I've got extra CB160 and CL175 sloper parts too, (including some nice NOS tanks if you ever want to build a stock one).

[Stev-o]

You guys are making me want one of these!  But I'm trying to hold out for a Bomber...

[jas67]

You guys are making me want one of these!  But I'm trying to hold out for a Bomber...

What you really need is a Bomber, AND a Superhawk.
And to really make the collection completely a CB160 and an S90, all in black.

[Stev-o]

You guys are making me want one of these!  But I'm trying to hold out for a Bomber...

What you really need is a Bomber, AND a Superhawk.
And to really make the collection completely a CB160 and an S90, all in black.

So true!  I do like the look of those S90's....

[02z06dave]

You guys are making me want one of these!  But I'm trying to hold out for a Bomber...

What you really need is a Bomber, AND a Superhawk.
And to really make the collection completely a CB160 and an S90, all in black.

So true!  I do like the look of those S90's....

You'd get bored on an s90. They're too slow

[02z06dave]

If you think you want to do a full rebuild on one, I've got one that is stuck that I'll let you have reasonably cheaply.

I've got carbs too, though, I plan to sell them ultrasonically cleaned and fully setup to bolt on and run (to get more $$ for my projects, of course).

I've got extra CB160 and CL175 sloper parts too, (including some nice NOS tanks if you ever want to build a stock one).

I would like to bore it out and maybe put a 200 head on it, so I'd take a stuck one. I don't need the carbs, I want to get a set of mikunis or something to go with the engine work.

[jas67]

Is the 200 head an improvement?
The 200 was actually down on power from the 175.   It had smaller carbs, so, it likely also had a milder cam profile, smaller valves or both.

[02z06dave]

Is the 200 head an improvement?
The 200 was actually down on power from the 175.   It had smaller carbs, so, it likely also had a milder cam profile, smaller valves or both.

I've heard that with porting it is an improvement

[jas67]

http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/40-engine-discussion/20538-cb-cl-200-cylinders-cb-cl-175-engine-175-head.html

Re: CB/CL 200 Cylinders on a CB/CL 175 engine (with 175 head

    I am in the process of using the vertical 175 top end (cylinder and head for better "breathing") on a 175 sloper engine.....
    There are oil passage/oiling changes in the 200 that would need to be considered during such a swap.....
    But some f-160 racers have used 200 components, so it's possible.....
    Study up on the engines, and we'll discuss further soon......

I'd never heard that the vertical 175 top end was any better than the sloper 175.

Re: CB/CL 200 Cylinders on a CB/CL 175 engine (with 175 head

    Ok so cb175-200 conversion this is what I did…….

    The cb175 pistons take a smaller pin than the cb 200, so unless your planning on boring the con rods, or pulling the cranks apart and swapping the con rods, Then your also going to need to swap to cb200 cranks to fit cb 200 pistons. The cb200 barrels have a larger diameter so the 175 top case will need modification to fit. The cb 200 top ends has larger fins so better cooling, it only uses one oiling channel so if you’re going to use the cb175 top case (and engine number) and cb 200 barrels the easier option is to use a cb200 head to get the right shaped expansion chamber. If you do this you’ll need to put 2 o rings on when you assemble the head to barrels and also drill a new hole in the head so oil passes into both cam bearing surfaces. The 1969 cl175 and the 1974 cb 200 that I used for my conversion both have the same head intake port diameter so go with the cb175 carbs. The new crank will require a cb200 cam sprocket, and modification to the cam chain tensioner to fit the cb175 case. The tach and points housings from the cb175 will fit the cb200 head. The clutches on the cb/cl175 are push the cb200 are pull and the basket gearing is different, in that its two sets gears offset on the 175s and single teeth on the 200’s. This means that the primary gears are different, which wouldn’t be a problem except the crank splines are different. So you’ll need the clutch basket from a late model CD 175 to bridge that gap. Use the cb200 oil pump ( its bigger) The Trans are similar except for way the neutral light switch works and the clutch articulation. The bottom case are identical.

    If you wanted to do this the easy way and aren’t concerned about the engine number saying cb200e not cb175e then use a cb200 top case, barrels, head ,cam ,cam tensioner and oil pump, cd 175 clutch basket and cb175 points, tach housings, engine covers and carbs .

    Or the really easy way cb200 engine complete then use cb175 tach and points housing and cb175 carbs

Obviously, this second post, the guy has a vertical-engine CL175, so, things are a little different, but, it does point out all the differences with the 200.   

[02z06dave]

I'll have a bit more research to do. I would like to punch it out to around 225 or more if I can. I don't really know yet what all has been done or can be done