Author Topic: 125cc Benly Touring  (Read 3980 times)

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Offline CR125Honda

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125cc Benly Touring
« on: April 27, 2017, 04:25:24 PM »
Hi all,
Found what I think is another little classic a couple days ago.

Purchased this unique little scoot locally yesterday to add to the collection.
After sitting for who knows how long, it's in need of a few parts and a lot of TLC.
Was advertised as a 1962 Honda Benly Touring model, 125cc.

I could use a bit of help identifying exactly what I have.

Searched a few places but my engine serial number (C92E-812110) didn't fit in the range of any data I was able to find.
Could not find any stamped numbers on the frame (like Honda usually does), but did find a tag with Japanese Numbers/lettering on the right side of the frame near the rear brake (pic below).

Also noticed the speedometer is calibrated in Km/h instead of Mph.

Posted this message on the HondaTwins site.
A member there thought it may be an Asian version brought back by one of our service men after the war.
Making this a C92 vs CA92.

After I get it running, I want to put plates on it and occasionally scoot around town.
I purchased with Bill of sale only and will be getting a title.
Before filling out that paperwork, I want to  be sure and apply with the correct date of manufacture correct.

Anyone here read Japanese or know how to date this ?

Regards, Ken












« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 07:36:47 PM by CR125Honda »
1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline 02z06dave

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 05:28:51 PM »
Check on the lower left side rear of the engine for the frame number. I don't know for sure on this particular model, but that's where it is on other similar models

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2017, 05:36:58 PM »
Check on the lower left side rear of the engine for the frame number. I don't know for sure on this particular model, but that's where it is on other similar models

Thanks Dave,
Yep..  Looked on lower left frame the best I could.
Found that sticker in the last pic on the lower right frame (directly across from the lower left - where they usually are).
Guessing it's a serial number in Japanese.
I've yet to find any data that references an engine serial number starting with an 8. Mine is C92E-812110.

Ken
1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline Steve_K

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 05:39:13 AM »
Peter Egan of Cycle World has several books of his columns and he has one on a Benly Touring.  He and a friend (on a bicycle) rode from his home to Pikes Peak State Park in Iowa.  (Cool park with view of two rivers)  Southern Wisconsin on the western side has very good riding for a motorcycle.  The bike and the Benly were evenly matched for the ride.  He had a good time on the trip.
Peter Egan's writing is always a good read.  Writes about cars, too.  I think he is retired, like me.
Steve
Steve_K

76 CB 550, 73CB750, 86 GSX-R750, 16 Slingshot
Old rides:305 Honda, CL350, 74 CB550
 05 SV1000S, 88 CBR600,92 VFR, 88 Hawk GT, 96 Ducati 900SS, 98 Kaw ZX6R, SV650

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 07:20:29 AM »
Congrats, nice find.  I'd guess it was a JDM too.

FYI - you cannot get a title from Vermont, only a registration. I prefer not to go into details on a public forum but there are many threads out there, easy process.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 07:42:12 PM »
Made some progress today..

Found the frame serial number (Yay!) and also found an extra digit (hiding under the dirt) on the engine serial number..





1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 10:45:42 PM »
Yep, The C92 was a precursor to the C95 (154cc) Benly Touring 150 and we saw Benly Touring 150s in the US market (CA95s)  The C92 and C95 has a few differences... but many many common parts.
The swoopy fenders were there before they created the big CA305s so while many will refer to the CA bikes as Dream bikes they came before the 250 and 305 Dreams and the CB variants with a frame...

www.motorera.com/honda has some information, very basic but it is a decent start.
In the Other bikes section I believe Cliff has his C95 rebuilds, he has done a couple. Cliff is in Canada on Vancouver Island (beautiful place) and he goes by the Magpie handle on the forums.
The C92 and CB92 and CA92 all can accept the CA95 or C95 cylinders to bump up the displacement.
The CA95 and CA92 were a higher compression motor if I recall correctly. The CA95 had a powerjet style Keihin carb that was pretty good for its time.
The late CA95s had the option for a Tachometer which required a new side plate with tach gear take off on the upper side of the head. The bikes did not create a ton of horse power but the CB92 was a potent race bike and could have lots of power coaxed out of it in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing.
Be careful on disassembly of course and lots of PB blaster like you are using and heat to help free stuck fasteners.
JIS fasteners everywhere on the bike, so don't try to replace them with the hardware store ISO metric fasteners.

You have something to start with that is rough but pretty much there.

Opt to build it with the higher compression, you will be happier in the long run and bumping up to CA95 specs would be pretty easy for slight bump in power. The CA95 has about 15 bhp and of course that is a pittance... They were good for 55-60mph and maybe 65 with a light rider laying on the tank.  The CB175 was a 20hp bike that could do 70 without too much trouble...so for a back road leisurely ride it is a fun bike. The leading link brakes where they stand up when stopping is very different and most who have never dealt with one will find it odd to get used to. The C70 passport had that same design.

Ohio Cycle probably has several OEM and aftermarket stuff for the 92 and 95 models...
Download their list and drop it into an Excel chart and then you can strip out rows that do not apply and then sort it based on other criteria.
Lots of ebay sellers in the far east a well...depends on if you want a nice bike to ride or a restored bike to ride... that will determine what you want to source parts from...

Ask questions and keep plodding along...sooner or later you will arrive where you want to go with the build.

Cliff is one of the more knowledgeable guys on these forums for the bikes. The VJMC email list (separate thing from the VJMC club and website) has several VJMC and non VJMC members who know these bikes very well. Worth looking at...
There are facebook groups for the C92/CA/CB92 you should look into as well. The CB92 bike's motor would be what I would build if I were going to stay with the 125cc displacement.
Some parts are very expensive...

BTW, the Cloud Silver paint used on these bikes is still available from the Honda Powersports shops in a large spray can that goes for $15-20.  Probably a cheaper route than some of the paint suppliers out there.  Having a can of that sprayed out and then getting a local paint shop to color match it might work but you run the chance of the metallic particle size being wrong along with all the other little things.  Shouldn't need more than 2 cans for all the silver painted things on the bike.  But, as you know...95% of a good paint job is prep...so do the prep right with good materials and it will come out nice...just test for compatibility when using different brands on a test panel to ensure they play together nicely. Better to find out before that happens and you have the expense in time and materials to redo it.
You just might be able to clean that paint up very nice and not need to repaint it and just wax it well to keep the original patina...Motor, different story.

Oxalic Acid is a great thing to use to remove rust... you buy it in crystals and mix with hot water...
does not harm paint but removes the rust...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 07:34:12 AM »
Hey Ken....sounds like you made some progress identifying the bike.

So what is the plan for restoration?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 12:41:07 PM »
Yep, The C92 was a precursor to the C95 (154cc) Benly Touring 150 and we saw Benly Touring 150s in the US market (CA95s)  The C92 and C95 has a few differences... but many many common parts.
The swoopy fenders .....................

Wow RAF...   So much great information in that post.
Thanks so much for taking the time to type/relay all of that.
Lots of references and information I'll be able to use. VERY much appreciated.

Hey Ken....sounds like you made some progress identifying the bike.

So what is the plan for restoration?

Stev-o
Plan right now is to clean up what is there, obtain the parts that are missing, and overhaul the engine.
Pretty sure the wheels are past saving so a wheel / spoke replacement will be in order.

Once I get a better idea of it's date of mfg, I'll be making the title application.
Got a few sources out there that are trying to help with that.
One source thought the serial number starting with 8 would make it at the end of the production run, possibly manufactured in 1965.
Still working on that.

The Mini Trail's and QA50's are the only bikes I have that don't need titles.
Had a soft spot for this one when I saw it for sale here locally, it needs to able to go back on the street.

Ken
1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 12:48:47 PM »
BTW - Found what probably took this scoot off the road.
Clutch push rod in this pic (above the shift rod, below the wire) has a pretty good bend on it.
Guessing a piece of clothes, a rag or something got bound in the chain while it was moving.
The rod is bent but there aren't any marring marks on it or on any of the casing in the area.
Hopefully, it will straighten out or I can find a replacement.

1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 01:03:39 PM »
Hey Ken...just noticed in your sig you have a H2, what shape is that in, got a pic?  That is my current project...
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 01:24:23 PM »
Hey Ken...just noticed in your sig you have a H2, what shape is that in, got a pic?  That is my current project...

Last tagged in 79, this might be the year. My Fav, 1970 Triumph, is on the list too.





1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2017, 09:22:18 PM »
DSS in US may have a new clutch pushrod... the clutch pushrods seem to be a failure point on some bikes, not keeping them greased can cause them or even the lever design used on cb550 or 750, etc to fail. 
I think you are going to need to use 92 or 95 in your searches on David Silver Spares lookup tool, not the 125 or 150 cc displacement as the tool recommends.
If you have to, you can probably find more parts for it at CMSNL but, shipping tends to be very pricey and their prices are not low. DSS's US site will save you shipping costs so, order from there instead of the DSS UK site.
DSS has a good selection of reproduction stuff and it is generally good quality.  Check their prices as it appears many ebay sellers are reselling their brands at higher prices than buying from DSS and since DSS is making money they either are getting a better deal with higher profits if they can buy direct from Union Cycle for their rims, case in point. An OK aftermarket chromed steel rim,  they sell a front at DSS for about $68 but same Union Cycle (when seller revealed manufacturer) rim on ebay is 89-99....
So, shop around on prices...they can vary.
A CB92 is worth some pretty good price but I doubt the C92 will bring anything like that.  If you want to have some brackets machined and a little custom work you can get the aftermarket cb92 windscreen for your C92 to give it a bit sportier look and actually a bit of wind off you at speed like a small flyscreen would provide.
Just a thought...

I wonder is a 3D scanned and printed bracket could be strong enough.  Finding someone with a set of original brackets who would scan them or loan them for a scan would be ideal.  Having them scanned could serve as the basis for a set to be CNC milled with the right software packages to import and massage the scanned source files into a source to generate a CNC cutting instructions.  Not a small bit of work but might save time over developing it in CAD.
But that is dreaming...
David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2017, 09:37:13 PM »
Hey Ken...just noticed in your sig you have a H2, what shape is that in, got a pic?  That is my current project...

Last tagged in 79, this might be the year. My Fav, 1970 Triumph, is on the list too.




Looks nice and complete.  You sure that's a '74?  The fork ears, oil tank and rear reflector are signs that it's a '72. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline KayOne

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2017, 12:29:06 PM »
Chrome front fender indicates 1973 model. 72's had a painted front fender.
CB750 K1 restored
1979 CB750Fz - original except for exhaust, 14000km
1984 VF45F Interceptor - all original, 12000 km
1968 S90 - all original, 2100 miles
1973 H2a, Restored
1973 H1D, next project
CB750K1 (sold)
1976 KZ900 (sold)
1981 CB900F (under restoration)
2015 Yamaha FJ09, my appliance rider

Offline CR125Honda

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Re: 125cc Benly Touring
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2017, 03:00:51 PM »
Chrome front fender indicates 1973 model. 72's had a painted front fender.

Wow, I'm not sure why but I've thought it 74 for.... ever. Your correct, it's 1973.
Checked my Title and the sticker on the goose neck (5/73). Thanks for noticing guys!

DSS in US may have a new clutch pushrod... the clutch pushrods seem to be a failure point on some bikes, not keeping them greased can cause them or even the lever design used on cb550 or 750, etc to fail. 
I think you are going to need to use 92 or 95 in your searches on David Silver Spares .........................................

David

Again, Great info David. Thanks so much.
Checked DSS, push rod in stock. Also need wheels/spokes and laundry list of other items I'm sure.
Pulled the head & cylinder(s) today. Pistons were froze. Going to need a bore.
Anyone know a good machine shop in the Cincinnati area?

Everything else looks fine (crank spins free, no rod slop, tranny shifts through all gears, shafts all spin smooth, etc..
Speedo reads 8435 Km, about 5200 miles. Heck, it's still a virgin.
Was going to split the cases but don't really see a need.

Crossing my fingers but hope to keep this project under a grand.
I usually keep my projects for the long haul but who knows.
This one's just different enough and has a neat history to be pretty cool to me.
I see the CB92's are pretty expensive and rightly so.
Hope this one's value will at least be what I have in to it but really have no idea what it might bring.

Ken







1974 CB750K4
1974 Kawasaki H2
1970 Triumph 650
1961 Pan/Shovel
Honda Benly 125 Touring
2003 BMW K1200LT
2005 Yamaha R1 Raven
1975 CR125
Ct70's, QA50's