Author Topic: Will your bike be banned?  (Read 13736 times)

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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2017, 05:03:38 PM »
If it happens, then I'll be an outlaw
Good point. Maybe a truly justifiable outlaw motorcycle club is in the future.


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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2017, 05:25:33 PM »
If it happens, then I'll be an outlaw
Good point. Maybe a truly justifiable outlaw motorcycle club is in the future.

I'm in a motorcycle gang.  Technically - only by liberal definition of the lawful term "gang".

Still counts don't it?



Offline 74cb750

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2017, 06:08:33 PM »
Just a thought while sitting here after reading some stories about automotive bans in inner cities....
Will our old bikes someday be banned in certain areas?

I know when I drive my S2 or KH500 and haven't gotten the right fuel/oil mixture resulting in excessive smoke or
filled the oiltank with old 2cycle oil I had lying around instead of the newer "smokeless" 2cycle oil, some
politically correct Vermonter or tourist will complain to me about being behind me and having to breathe 
that "nasty polluting smoke". etc etc

PS. my son's cb550 also smokes a bit as it needs new rings (groan, a major job that I really don't want to tackle right now)   ::)
michel

You can hide behind your "Rights & Freedoms" BS all day long but others have rights too. Sounds more to me that your just inconsiderate and a bit of a tight wad.

As a representative of the motorcycling community do your part to uphold a positive image. Fix the oil burning CB550 and invest in some new "smokeless" 2 cycle oil. How difficult is that? Same holds true of the POS oil burning F150 running around town. No reason worn out vehicles should be pumping crap into the atmosphere. Purchasing newer and/or fixing current vehicles is good for the economy as well as the environment.

BTW, just so you know. The Interceptor started burning oil last summer. It's off the road until I rebuild the top end. That will hopefully happen this year (if I ever get off my a$$). It's the right thing to do. Period.
\
EASY to say when you have money for more than one newer vehicle....just saying , some of us only have ONE vehicle that one struggles to keep running to get to work at the crappy lousy low paying jobs available in tourist areas. Just saying, not all of us are rich or middle class anymore.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2017, 06:37:11 PM »
Jim,  we  have massive deposits of lithium in Australia, no third world hands touch the stuff here...  8)
Would you have us believe somehow Australia has been promoted from a Third World Country simply because they can recycle Lithium????  ;D

And here I was thinking we hadn't found the Third World yet, Musk has Mars so that accounts for the second, unless there's something you're not telling us... ;D
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Offline Desert-SOHC

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2017, 09:35:07 PM »
If it happens, then I'll be an outlaw
Good point. Maybe a truly justifiable outlaw motorcycle club is in the future.

I'm in a motorcycle gang.  Technically - only by liberal definition of the lawful term "gang".

Still counts don't it?

Careful, don't want to wrinkle the snowflakes...... ;D
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2017, 07:16:24 PM »
I don't suffer nose bleeds James, I live too lowly a life. Your hypothesis always lack evidence for your opinions. As far as the corporations sticking it to me, hardly. I live rather comfortably thanks to them. And I still care about my fellow man; it's the way I was raised; to respect others.

You have the temerity to assail the OP without knowing a single thing about him. You've never met the guy, have no idea what his circumstances are, yet you immediately insult him with your petty little labels. You're the epitome of a disrespectful intolerant pissant. Go back to your wee little lab and live your fantasy life. You haven't the fist clue about the hypocrisies you defend.  ::)

As for that video, in its abstract, there are many plausible explanations a, as I said then, as I say now. Yet you are quick to call someone a hillbilly. Wow, how very mature and respectful of you. Pious Jim, that ought to be your new avatar. A$$hat.

Here's that clip. I case you forgot.


If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 10:01:44 PM by FunJimmy »
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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2017, 11:45:39 PM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2017, 02:52:54 AM »
I don't suffer nose bleeds James, I live too lowly a life. Your hypothesis always lack evidence for your opinions. As far as the corporations sticking it to me, hardly. I live rather comfortably thanks to them. And I still care about my fellow man; it's the way I was raised; to respect others.

You have the temerity to assail the OP without knowing a single thing about him. You've never met the guy, have no idea what his circumstances are, yet you immediately insult him with your petty little labels. You're the epitome of a disrespectful intolerant pissant. Go back to your wee little lab and live your fantasy life. You haven't the fist clue about the hypocrisies you defend.  ::)

As for that video, in its abstract, there are many plausible explanations a, as I said then, as I say now. Yet you are quick to call someone a hillbilly. Wow, how very mature and respectful of you. Pious Jim, that ought to be your new avatar. A$$hat.

Here's that clip. I case you forgot.


If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado


Hahahahahahaha! Awesome! 99% of cyclists are dickheads anyway.

Around here they act like they belong on the road more than regular traffic. It's amazing the respect that they get but skaters (inline or skateboard) are treated like garbage.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2017, 02:54:56 AM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

I knew a guy who would kill his ignition on his cbr600 and crank the throttle a bunch, then throw it back on and rip flames down the road. Imagine a giant flaming turd, that was him.


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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2017, 09:27:23 AM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2017, 10:24:18 AM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

Prosecuting on what standard?  To what avail?  Who is paying for enforcement?!

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2017, 11:07:54 AM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

Prosecuting on what standard?  To what avail?  Who is paying for enforcement?!

AFAIK, just one ground for now: environmental. The switches and gear used to make those obnoxious and toxic clouds of smoke bypass emmisions equipment, and the EPA has stated it's a violation of the Clean Air Act. Illinois and Colorado have imposed fines, not sure about other states.

The second could be assault. That #$%* spewed toxic smoke in the faces of several bicyclists who were simply out for a ride, for no other reason than to be a complete #$%*. Let's say you were walking down the street, minding your own business, and I had a canister of foul smelling toxic gas and sprayed it into your face because I didn't like the t-shirt you were wearing. Kind of the same thing really, isn't it?

You're not seriously going to defend the practice as some kind of exercise of freedom, are you? Most deisel drivers are in concensus that the practice is not only #$%*ty and wasteful, but gives people who drive deisel trucks a bad reputation.

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2017, 11:32:26 AM »
That makes some sense CC.

Though any assault charges would be in the misdeanor category afaik.  A case could be made for the 4th degree.  I can't recall any other statues where "willful expulsion of exhaust fumes" would meet the definition of assault.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2017, 12:07:37 PM »
The second could be assault. That #$%* spewed toxic smoke in the faces of several bicyclists who were simply out for a ride, for no other reason than to be a complete #$%*. Let's say you were walking down the street, minding your own business, and I had a canister of foul smelling toxic gas and sprayed it into your face because I didn't like the t-shirt you were wearing. Kind of the same thing really, isn't it?

You're not seriously going to defend the practice as some kind of exercise of freedom, are you? Most deisel drivers are in concensus that the practice is not only #$%*ty and wasteful, but gives people who drive deisel trucks a bad reputation.

I subscribe to your point in general principle, Chicken. But I do see a parallel to these morons (those who would alter a vehicle intentionally to produce this exhaust) with those who burn the American flag, or march in protest to certain topics. I don't agree with either group, but one could argue that these "coal rollers" might be protesting their viewpoint that the EPA has overstepped their bounds. As absurd that notion is, it's a viable argument. Not a method or action I condone by any stretch, but certainly within their rights to do so.

As for someone to make a legitimate case of "assault" I think they would have to show document damage of physical harm. Else, I could wage charges of "assault" to all those strum pets who wear far too much, noxious perfume in public and offend my olfactory glands. Where would it end?

I say let's agree; they are behaving badly in public and with little regard for their fellow man. Perhaps social pressure is sufficient to persuade them to amend their immature ways. A good old dose of Catholic Guilt works wonders on even the most dim-witted of citizens when delivered properly. Now, where's my ruler...  8)

I suppose, although the difference between burning a flag in protest and rolling coal is that the former is a statement targeting a policy but not directly targeting an individual. The latter may be a statement, but directly targets innocent individuals (who drive Priuses (Prii?), ride bikes, walk along the side of the road, etc.). "You want to clean up the air? Oh yeah? Watch me, I'm going to pollute even more!" Sure, Prius drivers can be high and mighty but who cares? Disclosure: I've owned two hybrids, a Civic and a CMax. I imagine part of their thinking is the whole conspiratorial "the-government-is-after-me-to-takeaway-my-rights-for nefarious-reasons," but even climate change deniers should be able to accept the fact that cleaner air to breathe is a good thing.

Offline Gene

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2017, 12:58:25 PM »
I suppose, although the difference between burning a flag in protest and rolling coal is that the former is a statement targeting a policy but not directly targeting an individual. The latter may be a statement, but directly targets innocent individuals (who drive Priuses (Prii?), ride bikes, walk along the side of the road, etc.).
You're assertion that rolling coal is targeting individuals, not "regulations". I'm not defending what they do, not by any means. And I hope there is a deeper reason to their antics than simple to "offend". But isn't the purpose of protected rights to insure they can be exercised whatever the purpose? It's dangerous when any right is encumbered by those who are offended by it. Then, no right or person is safe long term. At some point, something you hold dear could be the target of opposition for political correctness or public good. Then what?

And who knows, maybe these lunkheads are protesting an issue they've had with cyclists, or pedestrians or regulations. I don't agree with their tactic, but I remain unwilling to infringe on their right to be a$$hats if that's what floats their boat on pristine seas. Just like the ungrateful pranks who burn flags or take a knee during the anthem. It's their right and Godspeed exercising it. Just don't ask me to support your ideals. Tolerate your actions; sure. Defend your right to do it; you bet. Support you; no chance.

Each of us has the right to live as we see fit without the intrusion of assaults on our liberties - SO LONG AS our actions do not impede the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit.

That's the catch - also the hard part.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:58:07 PM by Gene »
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2017, 01:25:06 PM »
I suppose, although the difference between burning a flag in protest and rolling coal is that the former is a statement targeting a policy but not directly targeting an individual. The latter may be a statement, but directly targets innocent individuals (who drive Priuses (Prii?), ride bikes, walk along the side of the road, etc.).
You're assertion that rolling coal is targeting individuals, not "regulations". I'm not defending what they do, not by any means. And I hope there is a deeper reason to their antics than simple to "offend". But isn't the purpose of protected rights to insure they can be exercised whatever the purpose? It's dangerous when any right is encumbered by those who are offended by it. Then, no right or person is safe long term. At some point, something you hold dear could be the target of opposition for political correctness or public good. Then what?

And who knows, maybe these lunkheads are protesting an issue they've had with cyclists, or pedestrians or regulations. I don't agree with their tactic, but I remain unwilling to infringe on their right to be a$$hats if that's what floats their boat on pristine seas. Just like the ungrateful pranks who burn flags or take a knee during the anthem. It's their right and Godspeed exercising it. Just don't ask me to support your ideals. Tolerate your actions; sure. Defend your right to do it; you bet. Support you; no chance.

I guess I'm not going to take much more time on this but it should be pretty clear that coal rollers are specifically targeting individuals -- watch their videos, it's explicitly stated that they target Prius drivers, bicyclists, joggers -- and it's not some "noble protest." And do people really "hold dear" the perceived "right" to pollute, and direct that pollution at people who are riding their bicycles? I think you're getting too wound up in hypotheticals -- what issue could they possibly have with bicyclists riding on the shoulder of a public road -- that they are asserting their right to do so? Finally, and I'll leave it at this, if they are claiming some kind of "noble protest" against environmental law, if they break existing laws in an effort to change them they should be prepared to pay the price -- get a ticket and pay the fine, go to jail, etc.

I'll stick to what I asserted earlier -- these guys are just a$$holes being a$$holes.

Offline Gene

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2017, 01:59:40 PM »
Each of us has the right to live as we see fit without the intrusion of assaults on our liberties - SO LONG AS our actions do not impeded the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit.

That's the catch - also the hard part.
Well, that's not quite right actually. The lawful exercise of your rights can not be infringed, regardless of whether that exercise "impedes" others from living their life as they see fit. One is a right, the other is a choice. Rights trump choices and preferences. As they should.

Case in point: there is a portion of the population opposed to Same Sex marriage because they believe it impedes them living their life as they see fit. The Supreme Court ruled (rightly or wrongly in your opinion) that it was a Constituitional right and thus protected from infringement by other's choices. You have no Constitutional protection from being "offended" or "assaulted".

Thank you - you made my point, more or less.  The follow up is - this is why we have to create laws. Often laws that protect rights.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2017, 02:01:41 PM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

I had some little dicked puke do that to me on a bike ride a couple of weeks ago. If I would have caught up with that little-handed #$%* I would have beat that puke senseless and shoved his stupid fukcing rolling tailpipe up his ass. 
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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2017, 02:48:43 PM »
Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

I had some little dicked puke do that to me on a bike ride a couple of weeks ago. If I would have caught up with that little-handed #$%* I would have beat that puke senseless and shoved his stupid fukcing rolling tailpipe up his ass.

Man what a jerk.  Unprovoked?  Double-jerk.

Only time I've seen someone get rolled (first hand).  Was sitting in freeway traffic.  Someone in their old work truck pullin a trailer was getting dicked about by a couple in their fancy new sedan.  After being encroached upon and honked at, cut off, and generally cat n moused by this self-important sedan.  The two ended up side by side eventually, the tail pipe on the truck lined up with the passengers OPEN window.

As you can guess, revenge was swift and stinky.


Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2017, 06:28:02 AM »
Absolutely unprovoked. It was a 4 lane road going around the speedway with little to no traffic in our direction and the little #$%* went from the passing lane into my lane to roll me. I flipped him the bird long and hard with a few choice expletives to hope he was stupid enough to come back and confront me. Of course being a typical little penised man in a big diesel pickup there was no way in hell he was going do that.
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Offline Dunk

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2017, 07:43:09 AM »
If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado

Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft. My tow pig and daily driver through the winter is a diesel, mechanically injected and no emissions anything to modify. From the factory these trucks are smelly and smokey as they didn't come with a turbo, but usually won't "roll coal" in the large black cloud sense. Lacking a turbo means to pull any load you're always into the pump pretty far to not get run down and harassed by unsafe self centered drivers, more fuel means more smoke. So a production truck that's generally underpowered and smokey, especially pulling grades at high elevation (less oxygen).

In any event the lack of power and generally smokeyness doesn't cut it for me, so I installed a turbo, bigger pump, and shimmed the injectors to pop a few hundred psi higher for better atomization. Result is the engine gets more fuel and more air, less smokey all around but it will "roll coal" at any time. Anything more than a haze or a brief puff is a waste of fuel that's not making power and can rapidly melt pistons as EGT can skyrocket over 1200* in 1-2 seconds, melting pistons. It's operator error for calling for more fuel than the engine can reasonably burn at the moment, and something to be avoided. So my truck will blow a puff of black smoke here and there and a haze when working hard pulling a load up a grade. I'm mindful of this of course, and will ensure no smoke is blown at cyclists, even if it means I lose momentum and it's down to 25 MPH up the rest of the hill. Eventually I'd like to swap to a bigger turbo to increase power and decrease smoke, but these things are expensive and time consuming (custom) and require other upgrades as well. Some people in this thread seem to think everyone has a huge pile of disposable income. Good on them for doing so well for themselves, but that's not the reality for everyone and some of us have different financial priorities.

Now I need to be worried about harassment from the law for minding my own business and harming nobody. The hilarity is because of environmental laws I now drive a smokey old underpowered diesel pickup rather than the clean burning (no visible exhaust) powerful big block truck I previously drove. My big block truck was illegal here because it was originally a small block. I built a torquey and fuel efficient big block specifically to tow and maximize MPG, using an engine I pulled from the same year and model of truck that the original owner ticked a different box when ordering it. That engine swap was illegal here. I was going to build it emissions compliant as I had all the factory equipment but everyone from the government I talked to said it's an automatic fail for inspection so I built it without emissions equipment which allowed even more power and MPG. I bought stickers but eventually ran out of sources after the government heavily fine and shut down a bunch of shops, so got an old smokey pre-emissions diesel instead. Maybe not the intended effect of their law, but this is an example of what actually happens when government distorts the market and people make decisions based on artificially imposed externalities.

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2017, 08:00:39 AM »
Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft. My tow pig and daily driver through the winter is a diesel, mechanically injected and no emissions anything to modify. From the factory these trucks are smelly and smokey as they didn't come with a turbo, but usually won't "roll coal" in the large black cloud sense. Lacking a turbo means to pull any load you're always into the pump pretty far to not get run down and harassed by unsafe self centered drivers, more fuel means more smoke. So a production truck that's generally underpowered and smokey, especially pulling grades at high elevation (less oxygen).

In any event the lack of power and generally smokeyness doesn't cut it for me, so I installed a turbo, bigger pump, and shimmed the injectors to pop a few hundred psi higher for better atomization. Result is the engine gets more fuel and more air, less smokey all around but it will "roll coal" at any time. Anything more than a haze or a brief puff is a waste of fuel that's not making power and can rapidly melt pistons as EGT can skyrocket over 1200* in 1-2 seconds, melting pistons. It's operator error for calling for more fuel than the engine can reasonably burn at the moment, and something to be avoided. So my truck will blow a puff of black smoke here and there and a haze when working hard pulling a load up a grade. I'm mindful of this of course, and will ensure no smoke is blown at cyclists, even if it means I lose momentum and it's down to 25 MPH up the rest of the hill. Eventually I'd like to swap to a bigger turbo to increase power and decrease smoke, but these things are expensive and time consuming (custom) and require other upgrades as well. Some people in this thread seem to think everyone has a huge pile of disposable income. Good on them for doing so well for themselves, but that's not the reality for everyone and some of us have different financial priorities.

Sounds like you make every effort build and operate your diesel in a responsible manner and with consideration for others. Not everyone can claim the same. Some even relish the memory of it.

 
I resemble that remark  :-[ ;D But the dork deserved it. Now, my truck isn't equipped with any aftermarket shenanigans, but still, a convertible sitting adjacent to a diesel in stopped traffic on a summer highway in the South, well, he learned his lesson. And I didn't even need to rap his knuckles with a ruler...

I did allow him to move forward and in front of me after he waived "an apology" as if to say, "I've learned my lesson, I'm sorry".
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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2017, 02:21:07 PM »
I think what you guys are missing is that for the majority of the time, these "punks" are exactly that.... kids. No different than tping a house or throwing eggs. Kids will be kids. When we were younger my friend had a 6.5 manual and that thing would roll black smoke easily without mods. Horn blasting is more fun and I am guilty of that several times over.
Have any of you been in a brand new Cummins? How about during regen? Maybe no visible smoke but the smell is second to none.


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1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Dunk

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2017, 04:22:14 PM »
Indeed it sounds like calj was just keeping up with traffic, in a diesel that may mean some smoke until the turbo lights off. I believe even in CA, the most oppressive state I'm aware of for automotive enthusiasts who enjoy performance and fuel economy improvements, there is a law making visible smoke for more than some number of seconds illegal, such as when towing up a grade. This law is of course inherently unsafe as it requires the drivers attention be in the mirrors timing any visible smoke output and timing smoke/no smoke (power and maintaining speed vs no power and losing speed) to avoid a surprise road tax, rather than staying focused on the road, traffic, and gauges. The bottom line is any diesel is going to emit visible smoke during operation, there is a huge difference between a puff of smoke or a haze while accelerating and blackout darkness rolling coal, particularly intentionally engulfing people in a blackout dark sooty cloud. The law does not differentiate, just allows for maximum surprise road tax while minimizing safety.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Will your bike be banned?
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2017, 07:00:25 PM »
If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado

Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft.

From what you wrote, it doesn't seem like you have anything to worry about. But without "government intrusion" "inconsiderate pricks" would just belch smoke at bicyclists, joggers, Prius drivers, etc. Obviously you can't compel everyone by law not to be an inconsiderate prick (although laws against road rage do this, as do others), but you can fine them for environmental violations. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I see it as theft. You fine someone, they either stop doing it or they keep paying fines. I'm OK with that.