Topic: Will your bike be banned?

[carnivorous chicken]

I suppose, although the difference between burning a flag in protest and rolling coal is that the former is a statement targeting a policy but not directly targeting an individual. The latter may be a statement, but directly targets innocent individuals (who drive Priuses (Prii?), ride bikes, walk along the side of the road, etc.).

You're assertion that rolling coal is targeting individuals, not "regulations". I'm not defending what they do, not by any means. And I hope there is a deeper reason to their antics than simple to "offend". But isn't the purpose of protected rights to insure they can be exercised whatever the purpose? It's dangerous when any right is encumbered by those who are offended by it. Then, no right or person is safe long term. At some point, something you hold dear could be the target of opposition for political correctness or public good. Then what?

And who knows, maybe these lunkheads are protesting an issue they've had with cyclists, or pedestrians or regulations. I don't agree with their tactic, but I remain unwilling to infringe on their right to be a$$hats if that's what floats their boat on pristine seas. Just like the ungrateful pranks who burn flags or take a knee during the anthem. It's their right and Godspeed exercising it. Just don't ask me to support your ideals. Tolerate your actions; sure. Defend your right to do it; you bet. Support you; no chance.

I guess I'm not going to take much more time on this but it should be pretty clear that coal rollers are specifically targeting individuals -- watch their videos, it's explicitly stated that they target Prius drivers, bicyclists, joggers -- and it's not some "noble protest." And do people really "hold dear" the perceived "right" to pollute, and direct that pollution at people who are riding their bicycles? I think you're getting too wound up in hypotheticals -- what issue could they possibly have with bicyclists riding on the shoulder of a public road -- that they are asserting their right to do so? Finally, and I'll leave it at this, if they are claiming some kind of "noble protest" against environmental law, if they break existing laws in an effort to change them they should be prepared to pay the price -- get a ticket and pay the fine, go to jail, etc.

I'll stick to what I asserted earlier -- these guys are just a$$holes being a$$holes.

[calj737]

Each of us has the right to live as we see fit without the intrusion of assaults on our liberties - SO LONG AS our actions do not impeded the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit.

That's the catch - also the hard part.

Well, that's not quite right actually. The lawful exercise of your rights can not be infringed, regardless of whether that exercise "impedes" others from living their life as they see fit. One is a right, the other is a choice. Rights trump choices and preferences. As they should.

Case in point: there is a portion of the population opposed to Same Sex marriage because they believe it impedes them living their life as they see fit. The Supreme Court ruled (rightly or wrongly in your opinion) that it was a Constituitional right and thus protected from infringement by other's choices. You have no Constitutional protection from being "offended" or "assaulted".

[calj737]

I'll stick to what I asserted earlier -- these guys are just a$$holes being a$$holes.

We are much more like minded than differently on this topic. Sometimes, you gotta tolerate the a$$hats to insure the freedoms you cherish too.

[Gene]

Each of us has the right to live as we see fit without the intrusion of assaults on our liberties - SO LONG AS our actions do not impeded the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit.

That's the catch - also the hard part.

Well, that's not quite right actually. The lawful exercise of your rights can not be infringed, regardless of whether that exercise "impedes" others from living their life as they see fit. One is a right, the other is a choice. Rights trump choices and preferences. As they should.

Case in point: there is a portion of the population opposed to Same Sex marriage because they believe it impedes them living their life as they see fit. The Supreme Court ruled (rightly or wrongly in your opinion) that it was a Constituitional right and thus protected from infringement by other's choices. You have no Constitutional protection from being "offended" or "assaulted".

Thank you - you made my point, more or less.  The follow up is - this is why we have to create laws. Often laws that protect rights.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

I had some little dicked puke do that to me on a bike ride a couple of weeks ago. If I would have caught up with that little-handed #$%* I would have beat that puke senseless and shoved his stupid fukcing rolling tailpipe up his ass. 

[BomberMann650]

Apparently guys are modding their diesels to belch black with the flip of a switch.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/10/smoke-responsibly-and-roll-coal-the-right-way-with-these-truck-modification-options/

Yep, and they're called "complete #$%*ing #$%*s." Some states are prosecuting people for doing it, as they should.

I had some little dicked puke do that to me on a bike ride a couple of weeks ago. If I would have caught up with that little-handed #$%* I would have beat that puke senseless and shoved his stupid fukcing rolling tailpipe up his ass.

Man what a jerk.  Unprovoked?  Double-jerk.

Only time I've seen someone get rolled (first hand).  Was sitting in freeway traffic.  Someone in their old work truck pullin a trailer was getting dicked about by a couple in their fancy new sedan.  After being encroached upon and honked at, cut off, and generally cat n moused by this self-important sedan.  The two ended up side by side eventually, the tail pipe on the truck lined up with the passengers OPEN window.

As you can guess, revenge was swift and stinky.

[calj737]

The two ended up side by side eventually, the tail pipe on the truck lined up with the passengers OPEN window.

As you can guess, revenge was swift and stinky.

I resemble that remark  But the dork deserved it. Now, my truck isn't equipped with any aftermarket shenanigans, but still, a convertible sitting adjacent to a diesel in stopped traffic on a summer highway in the South, well, he learned his lesson. And I didn't even need to rap his knuckles with a ruler...

I did allow him to move forward and in front of me after he waived "an apology" as if to say, "I've learned my lesson, I'm sorry".

[Duke McDukiedook]

Absolutely unprovoked. It was a 4 lane road going around the speedway with little to no traffic in our direction and the little #$%* went from the passing lane into my lane to roll me. I flipped him the bird long and hard with a few choice expletives to hope he was stupid enough to come back and confront me. Of course being a typical little penised man in a big diesel pickup there was no way in hell he was going do that.

[Dunk]

If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado

Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft. My tow pig and daily driver through the winter is a diesel, mechanically injected and no emissions anything to modify. From the factory these trucks are smelly and smokey as they didn't come with a turbo, but usually won't "roll coal" in the large black cloud sense. Lacking a turbo means to pull any load you're always into the pump pretty far to not get run down and harassed by unsafe self centered drivers, more fuel means more smoke. So a production truck that's generally underpowered and smokey, especially pulling grades at high elevation (less oxygen).

In any event the lack of power and generally smokeyness doesn't cut it for me, so I installed a turbo, bigger pump, and shimmed the injectors to pop a few hundred psi higher for better atomization. Result is the engine gets more fuel and more air, less smokey all around but it will "roll coal" at any time. Anything more than a haze or a brief puff is a waste of fuel that's not making power and can rapidly melt pistons as EGT can skyrocket over 1200* in 1-2 seconds, melting pistons. It's operator error for calling for more fuel than the engine can reasonably burn at the moment, and something to be avoided. So my truck will blow a puff of black smoke here and there and a haze when working hard pulling a load up a grade. I'm mindful of this of course, and will ensure no smoke is blown at cyclists, even if it means I lose momentum and it's down to 25 MPH up the rest of the hill. Eventually I'd like to swap to a bigger turbo to increase power and decrease smoke, but these things are expensive and time consuming (custom) and require other upgrades as well. Some people in this thread seem to think everyone has a huge pile of disposable income. Good on them for doing so well for themselves, but that's not the reality for everyone and some of us have different financial priorities.

Now I need to be worried about harassment from the law for minding my own business and harming nobody. The hilarity is because of environmental laws I now drive a smokey old underpowered diesel pickup rather than the clean burning (no visible exhaust) powerful big block truck I previously drove. My big block truck was illegal here because it was originally a small block. I built a torquey and fuel efficient big block specifically to tow and maximize MPG, using an engine I pulled from the same year and model of truck that the original owner ticked a different box when ordering it. That engine swap was illegal here. I was going to build it emissions compliant as I had all the factory equipment but everyone from the government I talked to said it's an automatic fail for inspection so I built it without emissions equipment which allowed even more power and MPG. I bought stickers but eventually ran out of sources after the government heavily fine and shut down a bunch of shops, so got an old smokey pre-emissions diesel instead. Maybe not the intended effect of their law, but this is an example of what actually happens when government distorts the market and people make decisions based on artificially imposed externalities.

[FunJimmy]

Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft. My tow pig and daily driver through the winter is a diesel, mechanically injected and no emissions anything to modify. From the factory these trucks are smelly and smokey as they didn't come with a turbo, but usually won't "roll coal" in the large black cloud sense. Lacking a turbo means to pull any load you're always into the pump pretty far to not get run down and harassed by unsafe self centered drivers, more fuel means more smoke. So a production truck that's generally underpowered and smokey, especially pulling grades at high elevation (less oxygen).

In any event the lack of power and generally smokeyness doesn't cut it for me, so I installed a turbo, bigger pump, and shimmed the injectors to pop a few hundred psi higher for better atomization. Result is the engine gets more fuel and more air, less smokey all around but it will "roll coal" at any time. Anything more than a haze or a brief puff is a waste of fuel that's not making power and can rapidly melt pistons as EGT can skyrocket over 1200* in 1-2 seconds, melting pistons. It's operator error for calling for more fuel than the engine can reasonably burn at the moment, and something to be avoided. So my truck will blow a puff of black smoke here and there and a haze when working hard pulling a load up a grade. I'm mindful of this of course, and will ensure no smoke is blown at cyclists, even if it means I lose momentum and it's down to 25 MPH up the rest of the hill. Eventually I'd like to swap to a bigger turbo to increase power and decrease smoke, but these things are expensive and time consuming (custom) and require other upgrades as well. Some people in this thread seem to think everyone has a huge pile of disposable income. Good on them for doing so well for themselves, but that's not the reality for everyone and some of us have different financial priorities.

Sounds like you make every effort build and operate your diesel in a responsible manner and with consideration for others. Not everyone can claim the same. Some even relish the memory of it.

 

I resemble that remark  But the dork deserved it. Now, my truck isn't equipped with any aftermarket shenanigans, but still, a convertible sitting adjacent to a diesel in stopped traffic on a summer highway in the South, well, he learned his lesson. And I didn't even need to rap his knuckles with a ruler...

I did allow him to move forward and in front of me after he waived "an apology" as if to say, "I've learned my lesson, I'm sorry".

[calj737]

Not everyone can claim the same. Some even relish the memory of it.

 

I resemble that remark  But the dork deserved it. Now, my truck isn't equipped with any aftermarket shenanigans, but still, a convertible sitting adjacent to a diesel in stopped traffic on a summer highway in the South, well, he learned his lesson. And I didn't even need to rap his knuckles with a ruler...

I did allow him to move forward and in front of me after he waived "an apology" as if to say, "I've learned my lesson, I'm sorry".

Well, Your Highness, I didn't "roll coal" at him, I simply dealt with heavily congested traffic and kept my place in line. Whereas, this dork, attempted to bob and weave his way through traffic endangering lives of others simply because he had no consideration for others. I always allow other motorists ample room and space in which to drive. This dork, I simply didn't allow to cut me off and pop back into my lane so that I could mash my brakes to avoid hitting him. He got stuck, right the F where he belonged.

So pull your head out of your a$$hat helmet and read what was written, PiousJames.

[Lostboy Steve]

I think what you guys are missing is that for the majority of the time, these "punks" are exactly that.... kids. No different than tping a house or throwing eggs. Kids will be kids. When we were younger my friend had a 6.5 manual and that thing would roll black smoke easily without mods. Horn blasting is more fun and I am guilty of that several times over.
Have any of you been in a brand new Cummins? How about during regen? Maybe no visible smoke but the smell is second to none.


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[Dunk]

Indeed it sounds like calj was just keeping up with traffic, in a diesel that may mean some smoke until the turbo lights off. I believe even in CA, the most oppressive state I'm aware of for automotive enthusiasts who enjoy performance and fuel economy improvements, there is a law making visible smoke for more than some number of seconds illegal, such as when towing up a grade. This law is of course inherently unsafe as it requires the drivers attention be in the mirrors timing any visible smoke output and timing smoke/no smoke (power and maintaining speed vs no power and losing speed) to avoid a surprise road tax, rather than staying focused on the road, traffic, and gauges. The bottom line is any diesel is going to emit visible smoke during operation, there is a huge difference between a puff of smoke or a haze while accelerating and blackout darkness rolling coal, particularly intentionally engulfing people in a blackout dark sooty cloud. The law does not differentiate, just allows for maximum surprise road tax while minimizing safety.

[calj737]

Nah, Dunk, no smoke from my truck, just the fumes of diesel on a hot summer day wafting over that inconsiderate prick. It was short-lived and a lesson well learned I suspect on his part.

[carnivorous chicken]

If your Coal Rolling in Colorado while heading to the SOHC4 Reunion, be careful.
They don't put up with no BS. Let's hope other jurisdictions follow suit.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/coal-rolling-made-illegal-in-colorado

Firstly, the people filming that video are inconsiderate pricks... But this is just more government intrusion into people's lives and another excuse for theft.

From what you wrote, it doesn't seem like you have anything to worry about. But without "government intrusion" "inconsiderate pricks" would just belch smoke at bicyclists, joggers, Prius drivers, etc. Obviously you can't compel everyone by law not to be an inconsiderate prick (although laws against road rage do this, as do others), but you can fine them for environmental violations. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I see it as theft. You fine someone, they either stop doing it or they keep paying fines. I'm OK with that.

[BomberMann650]

I think what you guys are missing is that for the majority of the time, these "punks" are exactly that.... kids. No different than tping a house or throwing eggs. Kids will be kids. When we were younger my friend had a 6.5 manual and that thing would roll black smoke easily without mods. Horn blasting is more fun and I am guilty of that several times over.
Have any of you been in a brand new Cummins? How about during regen? Maybe no visible smoke but the smell is second to none.

Brand new diesels have that damn Exhaust Fluid canister.

While its great for keeping particulates out of the atmosphere.  It increases cost of ownership of the vehicle.  In addition to rendering the vehicle useless when it runs out. 

[calj737]

Brand new diesels have that damn Exhaust Fluid canister.

While its great for keeping particulates out of the atmosphere.  It increases cost of ownership of the vehicle.  In addition to rendering the vehicle useless when it runs out.

I personally don't have an issue with DEF-based motors. It certainly makes them smell less. To me though, its absolutely idiotic to require passenger cars to have it though. These vehicles are less than 1/10% of the diesel-based vehicles on the planet. Its like asking all the left handed, blue-eyed, native Swahili speaking twins with an IQ over 170 who are also taller than 6'4" to pay a higher tax rate. You simply aren't effecting enough of the "population" to make a difference. Know what I mean?

As for "fining" people for environmental infractions with a car, well, what becomes of that money? The EPA/DOJ fined all sorts of auto manufacturers recently, and lo and behold that money never went to the victims or to environmental concerns. So I am not in support of our Gov't levying fines that they in turn are eligible for dispensation of.

[Dunk]

but you can fine them for environmental violations. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I see it as theft. You fine someone, they either stop doing it or they keep paying fines. I'm OK with that.

You may be ok with it, but it is a violation of people's rights and absolutely theft. Why is the accused paying government (predominantly a gang of corrupt thugs) rather than the victim? Where is the victim? How are damages to person or property quantified?

[Lostboy Steve]

but you can fine them for environmental violations. I don't see anything wrong with that, nor do I see it as theft. You fine someone, they either stop doing it or they keep paying fines. I'm OK with that.

You may be ok with it, but it is a violation of people's rights and absolutely theft. Why is the accused paying government (predominantly a gang of corrupt thugs) rather than the victim? Where is the victim? How are damages to person or property quantified?

And again, where does it end? It has been previously stated that most diesels smoke a bit. Are we leaving that up to officers judgement? That always works out well.


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[calj737]

What I love, in the most ironic sense of regulation horse hockey, is the VW diesel fines. $17BILLION dollars!

My understanding of the story from all that I've read: VW engineers in a search to quiet their diesel engines at idle, stop lights, etc, found a tweak in the software to accomplish this. So they implemented it. It also demonstrated that it improved fuel mileage. Consequently, under "test" conditions, it also passed this emissions tests, but did not maintain the same "settings" during normal driving (apparently it had a sensor to detect the presence of test equipment and manipulated to running configuration).

So this software actually improved mileage (used LESS fuel, polluted LESS as a result) ran quieter (more environmentally sensitive to neighboring drivers, who likes a clacking diesel next to them?) and passed the test. But somehow, the US EPA determines that an intentional work around is criminal. So let's tack a $17B fine on them. And do what with that money?

Someone please prove who was injured, who died, or how many polar bears left as a result. Not a single human being can tie their health issues directly to these vehicles. You can not provide a scintilla of evidence that the environment was damaged (other than theory and hypothesis) or that passing a test means "always" ON. If I were VW, I'd tell the DOJ/EPA to stuff it. Good thing I don't run the zoo 

On the other hand, let's look at GM. Their ignition switch which was directly tied to 56 deaths and 87 injuries. The penalty from the Feds? $750Million. Yep, lives are worth more than trees and polar bears. And of the 87 injured or 56 dead, they can sue independently or receive a single $1Million and waive their right to compensation otherwise. Lovely. FCUK the EPA and the DOJ when it comes to environmental fines.

[FunJimmy]

Volkwagen is in violation of US EPA emissions regulations. They willingly installed software to alter the emissions of their diesel passenger vehicles when sensing testing equiptment. Volkswagen sold diesel vehicles at a significant premium to gas vehicles under the guise of "Clean Diesel". It's my understanding that the heafty settlement is mainly to compensate purchasers for the devaluation or buy back of their vehicles.

According to Car & Driver.

What happened?
Volkswagen installed emissions software on more than a half-million diesel cars in the U.S.—and roughly 10.5 million more worldwide—that allows them to sense the unique parameters of an emissions drive cycle set by the Environmental Protection Agency. According to the EPA and the California Air Resources Board, which were tipped off by researchers in 2014, these so-called “defeat devices” detect steering, throttle, and other inputs used in the test to switch between two distinct operating modes. In the test mode, the cars are fully compliant with all federal emissions levels. But when driving normally, the computer switches to a separate mode—significantly changing the fuel pressure, injection timing, exhaust-gas recirculation, and, in models with AdBlue, the amount of urea fluid sprayed into the exhaust. While this mode likely delivers higher mileage and power, it also permits heavier nitrogen-oxide emissions (NOx)—a smog-forming pollutant linked to lung cancer—up to 40 times higher than the federal limit. That doesn’t mean every TDI is pumping 40 times as much NOx as it should. Some cars may emit just a few times over the limit, depending on driving style and load.

Complete article: http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/

[calj737]

Volkwagen is in violation of US EPA emissions regulations. They willingly installed software to alter the emissions of their diesel passenger vehicles when sensing testing equiptment. Volkswagen sold diesel vehicles at a significant premium to gas vehicles under the guise of "Clean Diesel". It's my understanding that the heafty settlement is mainly to compensate purchasers for the devaluation or buy back of their vehicles.

According to Car & Driver.

What happened?
Volkswagen installed emissions software on more than a half-million diesel cars in the U.S.—and roughly 10.5 million more worldwide—that allows them to sense the unique parameters of an emissions drive cycle set by the Environmental Protection Agency. According to the EPA and the California Air Resources Board, which were tipped off by researchers in 2014, these so-called “defeat devices” detect steering, throttle, and other inputs used in the test to switch between two distinct operating modes. In the test mode, the cars are fully compliant with all federal emissions levels. But when driving normally, the computer switches to a separate mode—significantly changing the fuel pressure, injection timing, exhaust-gas recirculation, and, in models with AdBlue, the amount of urea fluid sprayed into the exhaust. While this mode likely delivers higher mileage and power, it also permits heavier nitrogen-oxide emissions (NOx)—a smog-forming pollutant linked to lung cancer—up to 40 times higher than the federal limit. That doesn’t mean every TDI is pumping 40 times as much NOx as it should. Some cars may emit just a few times over the limit, depending on driving style and load.

Complete article: http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/

Basically what I wrote. The "devaluation" is perceived. VW has offered to repair the software on all models possible, or, buy back the vehicle. But the $17B fine is still being ransomed by the DOJ. For what purpose is the real question... I surely don't see them retro-fitting Federal buildings with more energy efficient systems, or environmental implementations.

[FunJimmy]

Basically what I wrote. The "devaluation" is perceived. VW has offered to repair the software on all models possible, or, buy back the vehicle. But the $17B fine is still being ransomed by the DOJ. For what purpose is the real question... I surely don't see them retro-fitting Federal buildings with more energy efficient systems, or environmental implementations.

The "devaluation" won't necessarily be known until the owner of these fraudulent emissions vehicles decides to sell them. Remember, purchasers paid a premium for "Clean Diesel" vehicles and Volkswagen profited handsomely from them. Volkswagen has not been able to come up with a compliance repair for all of these vehicles either and probably never will.

[calj737]

Personally, I'd rather have one that gets better mileage than one that doesn't. I'd pay more-

[BomberMann650]

The news I read about volkswagens software was a bit different.
The part about switching into test mode was true.
What happened without the test mode was part of vw's attempt to maintaince the enjoyable performance driving experience their customers demanded.  Which was somehow not possible to deliver when the engine is castrated by testing standards.

Sadly, i know a few folks with old vw rabbit pickup trucks that net 60mpg.  There aint no fancy def tanks or cylinder shut off systems.  I think the most electronic thing about the truck is the stereo.  But 60mpg!  From a really old volkswagen! 

I don't much appreciate the government fines myself.  "Where does the money go?" Is a damn good question!  The epa made $3billion off its lawsuits in 2015.  Which is why Mr Trump decided they didn't need taxpayer money to operate anymore.  Seems they figured out how to generate enough revenue on their own!