Topic: Terry Bob's redneck F-ing K2 bitsa project!

[PeWe]

Good news Terry!
One question though... Who did what with an ape?

Ha ha, yeah, all those old sayings will probably get you in trouble nowadays, "Goes like a scalded cat" comes to mind too, I'll have to come up with something less offensive in this new "sensitive" world..........

I like that expression!
For me a bike eager to run again, hard!
It goes like an Aped bike can be true too!

[PeWe]

Here about fake plugs and how they can look like.
http://ngk.sr/technical-information/fake-spark-plug/

Per.... watched the video! They showed D8EA’s as the fakes!! Explains a lot.....

I have seen reports before about fake plugs. Bad when they use completely wrong plugs, not working at all.

In that report factories in China. Either something I've read on Internet or TV.

I use Denso plugs I found cheap in UK. I ordered D8EA too just fore sure

[CaseyH]

I had an issue with my car a 1972 240Z Datsun
I accidentally flooded it a while ago and could not get it to fire up. Cleaned and dried the NGK plugs and they looked good and got a spark. Nothing would make it more than fire intermittently.
My wifes brother used to be a Datsun mechanic in the 70's and I asked him if he had any idea what was wrong.
He told me to replace the plugs and it started on the first crank.
He told me that this was a common thing to do with the NGK plugs.
I still use them because the 240 is not happy with other brands for some reason.
I always have a spare set waiting on the shelf.

Casey

[ofreen]

I'll have to come up with something less offensive in this new "sensitive" world..........

Naw, "fook 'em if they can't take a joke" is more apt now than ever.

[grcamna2]

Good news Terry!
One question though... Who did what with an ape?

Ha ha, yeah, all those old sayings will probably get you in trouble nowadays, "Goes like a scalded cat" comes to mind too, I'll have to come up with something less offensive in this new "sensitive" world..........

I like that expression!
For me a bike eager to run again, hard!
It goes like an Aped bike can be true too!

I remember a few people back East who used to say about a Fast ride: "it goes like a raped-ape" ! 

[Terry in Australia]

I had an issue with my car a 1972 240Z Datsun
I accidentally flooded it a while ago and could not get it to fire up. Cleaned and dried the NGK plugs and they looked good and got a spark. Nothing would make it more than fire intermittently.
My wifes brother used to be a Datsun mechanic in the 70's and I asked him if he had any idea what was wrong.
He told me to replace the plugs and it started on the first crank.
He told me that this was a common thing to do with the NGK plugs.
I still use them because the 240 is not happy with other brands for some reason.
I always have a spare set waiting on the shelf.

Casey

Yeah mate, I’ve always used NGK’s with no issues, so that’s what confused me? The plugs that were in the engine when I bought it were new and hadn’t fired a shot, and the bike ran great on it’s first fire up in the video, so I assumed that the 50 year old coils might have gone to God.

Good thing is I can install them in the “Fake K0” as someone’s installed later Honda coils and two of the leads are so short they dont quite reach the plug boots. I watched with interest as one plug lead was arcing off the cam cover as the engine was missing and farting on 2 cylinders.

So much for a bike that “Runs Good”........ according to the seller.

[Terry in Australia]

So another beautiful day today and of course, I'm chained to my computer down the bottom of the ol' virtual saltmine and I can just see that blue sky teasing me at the top of the pit. At midday I crawled out and couldn't help myself, I fired the K2 up and took it for a lap around the block, and was happy that it went well. No missing or farting, and the gearbox was buttery smooth.

Only problem was, the oil leak underneath the sump pan was still there. Well while I was gonna drop the pan anyway, I thought I might put another oil pump together, as I wasn't 100% sure about the one in it. I pulled a pump apart, put it in the ol' ultrasonic cleaner and gave it a good clean. The pump had been apart before because the gasket between the pump and the base was missing, as was a couple of screws. No biggie, I had plenty of pumps out in the garage, so I removed the parts I needed to make a good pump, and measured the gap in the rotors and they were well within spec.

K2 Bitsa 17 Mar 2021 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I'd had a wonderful idea of recycling the oil that had done a whole 20 miles, by using one of those special oil pans that are also containers.

K2 Bitsa 17 Mar 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

It turns out it was a stupid idea, I think more oil went on the driveway than into the can, and anyway, little bits of grit underneath the engine dropped into the pan, so I gave up. Once I'd installed the refurbed pump I replaced the sump pan gasket, and used a new copper gasket on the sump plug.

K2 Bitsa 17 Mar 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I bolted the pan back on, cleaned the mess under the bike, then filled the oil tank with nice fresh new oil. I fired it up and was immediately impressed that the oil pump was reading 70 psi, 10 more than last time, and everything sounded good. Hopefully this is it, it's now finished, and I can move on to my next CB750 project. If I was paying someone else to do all the mechanical work on this bike at the going rate of $90 per hour, without the parts I've bought, I probably could have bought a good running bike. Oh well as long as it's a nice riding bike, I'll be a happy boy.

 

[Alan F.]

Yep, between inventory, equipment and pure familiarity you've got the edge. Glad to hear your K2 is in your good graces!

[grcamna2]

This K2 going to be the 'keeper' Terry ?

[BenelliSEI]

More plug info. I spoke with the website where I buy my NGK plugs. They state they only stock plugs sent directly from the Canadian NGK Distributor.

Yet..... the last set of plugs I had from them treated me exactly as did Terry’s. Ran great for 15 minutes and them dropped two cylinders. Seems like there can be issues with real NGK’s too? After these experiences, it seems a plug change is the first “test” after any sudden performance drops!

[grcamna2]

More plug info. I spoke with the website where I buy my NGK plugs. They state they only stock plugs sent directly from the Canadian NGK Distributor.

Yet..... the last set of plugs I had from them treated me exactly as did Terry’s. Ran great for 15 minutes and them dropped two cylinders. Seems like there can be issues with real NGK’s too? After these experiences, it seems a plug change is the first “test” after any sudden performance drops!

I see some poor zinc plating on some of these:my guess is that stuff is flaking-off and getting bonded to the electrodes/porcelain.I think I'll start scraping that cheap plating off the grounds,etc. anywhere it looks loose.
I like the NOS ND X24ES-U which were made out of solid,good quality metal(nickle?)and 'stood the test of time' 

Where can any of us purchase the NOS ND plugs ?

[Terry in Australia]

I like Bosch plugs, I don’t know if they do a version of NGK’s D8EA? The plugs that came out of one of my BMW K Series bikes after 50,000 Km (30,000 miles) had 3 ground electrodes, but looked very similar to the D8EA’s? I did think about trying some, but I don’t know enough about spark plugs to risk possibly melting holes in my pistons if the heat range was out of this world?

I won a set of Denso or ND Iridium plugs for a CB750 after I won “letter of the month” in a bike magazine, but they’re sh1t, each bike I tried them in ran like sh1t, so I haven’t had any desire to buy anything but NGK’s ever since.

I did buy some fancy American “pulstar” spark plugs for my Sportster to replace the then 21 year old Champions (it had done less than 3 thousand miles when I bought it) and the plugs I bought got a really good rap in a bike mag I was reading, and I haven’t had any problems with them, but I’ve only done another 3 or 4 thousand miles since I installed them, so no idea if they were worth the money or not, but my Sporty is my most reliable bike, it always fires right up after months of disuse, so they might have some bearing? Who knows?

Maybe I should see if Pulstar make plugs for CB750’s? It really is disconcerting to know that the NGK’s I buy might be fakes? Fake spark plugs piss me off! Ok, I better wander out and see if that oil leak has gone away.

[grcamna2]

I like Bosch plugs, I don’t know if they do a version of NGK’s D8EA? The plugs that came out of one of my BMW K Series bikes after 50,000 Km (30,000 miles) had 3 ground electrodes, but looked very similar to the D8EA’s? I did think about trying some, but I don’t know enough about spark plugs to risk possibly melting holes in my pistons if the heat range was out of this world?

I won a set of Denso or ND Iridium plugs for a CB750 after I won “letter of the month” in a bike magazine, but they’re sh1t, each bike I tried them in ran like sh1t, so I haven’t had any desire to buy anything but NGK’s ever since.

I did buy some fancy American “pulstar” spark plugs for my Sportster to replace the then 21 year old Champions (it had done less than 3 thousand miles when I bought it) and the plugs I bought got a really good rap in a bike mag I was reading, and I haven’t had any problems with them, but I’ve only done another 3 or 4 thousand miles since I installed them, so no idea if they were worth the money or not, but my Sporty is my most reliable bike, it always fires right up after months of disuse, so they might have some bearing? Who knows?

Maybe I should see if Pulstar make plugs for CB750’s? It really is disconcerting to know that the NGK’s I buy might be fakes? Fake spark plugs piss me off! Ok, I better wander out and see if that oil leak has gone away.

Terry,the plugs(ND)you said you installed in your bikes,which version ND were they ? Did they say Nippon Denso or ND Made in Japan ? or just 'denso' ?

[Terry in Australia]

I'll go and see if I can find the boxes Bill, I think I know where I put them.

[Terry in Australia]

Well there you go, it's an "Old Timers" problem, they aren't ND, they're NGK Iridiums!

K2 bitsa 18 Mar 2021 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

K2 bitsa 18 Mar 2021 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

Oh well. Good news is there is no fresh oil drips under the engine (ignore that big stain, that was where I dumped around a litre on it yesterday and need to pressure wash it once the bikes are out of the way) so my replacing the gasket with a new one must have done the trick.

K2 bitsa 18 Mar 2021 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I might have to go for another quick lap at lunchtime just to confirm that all's well, the worst part about rebuilding an engine is that you start hearing things that probably aren't there......... (I hope)

[BenelliSEI]

The Bosch equivalent to an NGK D8EA is: X4CS. Anybody ever tried them? Seems like an interesting option.

[Don R]

 I just found 4 D8EA's in a farm store cheap. Bingo! assuming they aren't fakes.

[BenelliSEI]

I just found 4 D8EA's in a farm store cheap. Bingo! assuming they aren't fakes.

Don.... apparently the most common indicator of a “fake” is if the compression washer moves up and down the threaded portion. On a “real” NGK, they are well and truly stuck, up against the base.

[grcamna2]

Terry,I'm going to go out on a limb to say those NGK 'Iridium' may have been counterfeit NGK's.
I like how your centerstand on the Bitsa has that un-painted natural look to it:is it clear coated ?

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Bill, no, the Iridiums that were supplied by "Australian Motorcycle Trader" magazine (now defunct after Covid-19 killed the industry here) were supplied to them by NGK Australia, so definitely not fakes, just sh1t. They also gave me a new Ipod mini, which is still in it's box, and some other stuff from their suppliers, but all genuine. The centrestand was chromed, back in the day, so I've left it.  

[grcamna2]

The Bosch equivalent to an NGK D8EA is: X4CS. Anybody ever tried them? Seems like an interesting option.

John,I did a tune-up on a BMW K75 back in the 90's and it had those same Bosch plugs in it:I installed a set of NGK D8EA's into it.Have you ever tried the Bosch in your Honda ?

[Terry in Australia]

I think I'll order some, but is there an NGK D7EA equivalent? I'm only running the D8's because I haven't installed an electronic ignition yet?

[grcamna2]

I think I'll order some, but is there an NGK D7EA equivalent? I'm only running the D8's because I haven't installed an electronic ignition yet?

Terry,will the electronic ignition you're about to install make the plugs run cooler? The D7EA is a one step hotter plug than the D8EA.

[Terry in Australia]

I think I'll order some, but is there an NGK D7EA equivalent? I'm only running the D8's because I haven't installed an electronic ignition yet?

Terry,will the electronic ignition you're about to install make the plugs run cooler? The D7EA is a one step hotter plug than the D8EA.

Thanks Bill, Hondaman recommends D7EA's with a 1mm gap for bikes with electronic ignitions, and the F2 and K0 run like sexually assaulted Orangutans with Kokusan EI's, Dyna coils and D7EA's.

[PeWe]

Denso X24ES-U work fine.
I ordered some boxes from UK before BREXIT.
https://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-denso-standard-spark-plugs-x24es-u-x24esu-067800-1700-0678004130-4099.html

I match plug with head plug threads. Make sure that plug gap face IN valve when tightened.
I noticed it improved the throttle roll-on/off. Like synching the carbs but in the entire rpm area.

It runs smoother than if unlucky, a few plugs can be 180 degrees wrong.
This can be the explanation when people has noticed bike runs smoother after a plug change. Not the plug, orientation that did it. If lucky all are ok orientated.

Instead of using indexing washers, test plugs and find 4 that match the head.
I mark plug at top where the gap opening is. That mark in the middle of the curved area of the CB750 head cavity for plug when tightened.

Good to have some plugs to test for a good setup. Avoid the worst orientation might be enough. Gap facing inwards the chamber must be much better than  facing the wall.

I have tested Iridium plugs. They acted like a colder plug. Both Denso and NGK.