Author Topic: New tire questions 130-70-18  (Read 1264 times)

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Offline schu3507

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New tire questions 130-70-18
« on: May 20, 2017, 03:12:23 PM »
So I'm going wt rubber. Michelin Pilot tires.
130-70-18 rear and 110-80-18. I'm pretty see I told dude to order 130-80-18 for rear. Y'all see massive problem wt the one that arrived? I know about handling will be best closer to stock.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2017, 04:08:37 PM »
What rim are you going to use with that tire?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline schu3507

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 04:14:40 PM »
The stock comstar on the 77 cb750 super sport. I've read it's the most you can as far as 130 width. It will prob wear in the middle quickly. Question I'm really concerned wt is the profile being 70, not 90 like stock. Tire will have a significant smaller sidewall and diameter so concerned.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 04:30:23 PM »
The stock comstar on the 77 cb750 super sport. I've read it's the most you can as far as 130 width. It will prob wear in the middle quickly. Question I'm really concerned wt is the profile being 70, not 90 like stock. Tire will have a significant smaller sidewall and diameter so concerned.
Isn't that rim width 2.15 inches?  That's like a 55mm rim base with a 130 mm tread umbrella over it.   Held in place by a sidewall 91mm tall and very angled.  What tire manufacturer recommended that combination?

FYI: The middle number is the aspect ratio in percentage of tread width.
  And the stock tire 4.00 x 18 had near to 98 or 100 % aspect ratio.  Translates to 102mm and about 100mm tall, over a 55mm rim width.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline schu3507

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2017, 04:39:54 PM »
Bad idea size huh lol. I'll be straighting this Monday first thing. I'll go 130/90/18

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 04:42:43 PM »
On that rim, I wouldn't go larger than 120. 

...And it will still wear out the center tread quickly.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline schu3507

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2017, 04:53:16 PM »
Ok. So 120 rear and 120 front it will be

Offline schu3507

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 05:35:03 PM »
CORRECTION. 110 front

Offline PeWe

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2017, 03:59:16 AM »
I think my bike (CB750-k6) has entered the consequence of a flat rear tire. The bike had really good handling when tires were new. Reacted very quick and stable in corners.

This year the bike has a "snaky" behaviour when riding on curvy country roads with some bumbs. Maybe the now flatter rear tire? I have higher pressure now, 37-40 PSI, before what Honda wrote on the label as highway speed.
Dunlop StreetSmart 100/90-19, 120/90-18.
Since I have read more about this as TT explain, I've inspected the rear tire and it is really flat and  std 2.15 slim rim. Tire had a much higher curved shape before.

- Which tire to use with the rim?
My engine produce some power, more than ever this year so a rear tire will become flat really soon. ;)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BobbyR

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 08:43:44 AM »
I think my bike (CB750-k6) has entered the consequence of a flat rear tire. The bike had really good handling when tires were new. Reacted very quick and stable in corners.

This year the bike has a "snaky" behaviour when riding on curvy country roads with some bumbs. Maybe the now flatter rear tire? I have higher pressure now, 37-40 PSI, before what Honda wrote on the label as highway speed.
Dunlop StreetSmart 100/90-19, 120/90-18.
Since I have read more about this as TT explain, I've inspected the rear tire and it is really flat and  std 2.15 slim rim. Tire had a much higher curved shape before.

- Which tire to use with the rim?
My engine produce some power, more than ever this year so a rear tire will become flat really soon. ;)

What is happening is that you now have a have shoulder formed between the flat center and the sidewall tread. When you lean into a turn you now have to go over that shoulder to get to the sidewall. It is like going over a step. It is no longer a smooth transition.   
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 10:45:19 AM »
The unworn 120 tire had a nice curved crown.  When leaned over, the contact patch moves a bit off center relative to the wheel rim.   This makes the rear of the bike "wiggle" when any side loads are present.  The popular way to reduce this trait is to raise the tire pressure, essentially adding side loads to both walls and thus stiffen them.  This reduces the crown's off center movement (for a while).  However, increased pressures also raise the tire crown, making that part of the tire wear faster, and squaring off the nice rounded crown the tire originally had, and making replacement frequency more often.

Rubber actually fatigues with bending, making it less rigid.  Important when considering sidewall stiffness.  So, you either add more air pressure as the sidewall gets softer, live with the squirmy handling, or buy replacement tires.  Of course, a new tire will feel better than the old worn tires, even if they are misfits.  ... for just long enough to, implant fond memories, and generate repeat praises of the new tire brand via testimonials.

Putting oversize tires on narrow rims is great for tire salesmen.  They get to sell you a more expensive tire at shorter intervals.  Good for business.  And bigger tires are an easy sell because all the newer bikes have that.  Leading to the belief that putting bigger tires on their old bike's narrow rims is "upgrading".

A tire that is designed for the rim will perform better over the life of the tire, as well as extend the tire's useful life.

All the tire manufacturer's have a fitment chart, and most state the allowable rim width the tire was designed to fit.  But beyond that, the bike manufacturer states what tires the bike was set up to perform as new.  The confusing thing is that the tire manufacturer's have all changed their sizing criteria.  New bike's have kept pace with current availability and supply parts that work with them.  And in part, because tire marketeers and salesmen are pushing new tire "styles" as a fashion statement under the guise of promised performance, the demand for proper sized tires for older machines is low, leading manufacturer's to limit production of tires for the old bikes.

So, in part the reason for the limited choice in availability, is caused by buyers making choices based on faulty information.  I don't think this will ever be "fixed".
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline PeWe

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 11:24:45 AM »
Wider tire is only the "tougher" choice from my side. I can use a less masculine tire next time if the handling will improve/be maintained ;)
Will 4.0-18 do a big difference compared to 120/90-18?   I guess I can use the tire longer, as it is now I want to replace it.
No problem to get tires here with dim 3.25-19 and 4.0-18

My last rear tire in the 80's was a Metzeler ME99 130/80-18. It ended up real flat too.

I have seen other forums where they have got the conlusion that old original tire sizes get best handling. BMW and Moto-Guzzi forums as I recal now.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 11:44:11 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline TwoTired

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 11:36:59 AM »
When I went back to stock size tires on my SOHC4s, I could still scrape pegs and bits of bike in aggressive corners, and still have plenty of traction.  I suppose I could use more traction if I made the springs stiffer.  But, my bones are too precious to me to constantly ride on the edge, anymore.  Particularly on roads with unknown debris on them.  Certainly no "wider" tire is going to save you on graveled pavement.

Perhaps if I was 25, I'd tempt that edge again.  :-\

It's your choice.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline PeWe

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 11:46:23 AM »
No problem to be 25, I  made 25 for the 2:nd time some years ago ;)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BobbyR

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 12:53:25 PM »
+1
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline schu3507

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Re: New tire questions 130-70-18
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 04:12:25 PM »
Ha!!! 25 twice...that's where it's at..cheers!!!