Author Topic: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed  (Read 1874 times)

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Offline Mushu

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CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« on: May 03, 2017, 09:56:05 AM »
CB 750 K1 1971

I just finished a top end rebuild and I have been using the bike for around 1500 kms since the rebuild.

I have difficulties to get a good idle.
It is correct but not completely stable at 1400 rpm.
I can't get 1050 rpm with a reasonable idle.
Carbs 7A have been cleaned.

Idle air screws are around 1 turn out on each carb
I use Carbtune tool to synchronize.
Cylinder 2,3 and 4 give a very small vibration when reading pressure.
Cylinder one does not give this vibration.

When using throttle to rev engine at 2000 or 3000 rpm, I can see synchronization of 2,3,4 and pressure change quickly and equally.
On cylinder 1 pressure changes slowly.
I already exchanged Cartune tubes between Carb 1 and 2 to see if the problem moves. Problem stays on carb 1.

I need your help to define reason for this.
I have the feeling that it is the reason of bad idle.





 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 09:57:49 AM by Mushu »
CB750 K1 owner.

Offline flybox1

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 10:05:22 AM »
CB 750 K1 1971

I just finished a top end rebuild and I have been using the bike for around 1500 kms since the rebuild.

I have difficulties to get a good idle.
It is correct but not completely stable at 1400 rpm.
I can't get 1050 rpm with a reasonable idle.  Might be too low if the bike feels/sounds like its chugging.  bump it up to 1100-1200
Carbs 7A have been cleaned.

Idle air screws are around 1 turn out on each carb
I use Carbtune tool to synchronize.  What color are the plugs after a long idle?
Cylinder 2,3 and 4 give a very small vibration when reading pressure.
Cylinder one does not give this vibration.  Might just be the dampener valve on the gauge needs adjusting.

When using throttle to rev engine at 2000 or 3000 rpm, I can see synchronization of 2,3,4 and pressure change quickly and equally.
On cylinder 1 pressure changes slowly.
I already exchanged Cartune tubes between Carb 1 and 2 to see if the problem moves. Problem stays on carb 1.

I need your help to define reason for this.
I have the feeling that it is the reason of bad idle.
Did you do cylinders/rings on your rebuild? 
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 10:33:01 AM »

Don't let the test equipment lie to you.  Swap the entire line from gauge to port tap, to be certain there is no restriction damping the readings.

Once you are confident the tool is reporting correctly, it is probably time to do a compression test.   At the very least, check the head pipes for relatively even heating.

Also, before using a carb balance tool check all the valve clearances.  Embarassing to tweak carbs when a valve adjuster has come loose.  Guess how I know that?

Another thing to check is cam oiling/ valve rocker travel.  A rounded cam lobe will not allow a cylinder to perform correctly.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Mushu

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 12:20:31 PM »
Thanks for your answer.

For Flybox1, I changed pistons (+0.5), rings, Top of cylinder block has been flatten for 0.1 mm as well as head 0.2 mm.

Valves seats have been refurbished.

Camshaft has been changed to CX1.
Rockers have been changed to refurbished from Cycle X as well as as shaft (inlet rocker arm).

For TwotTired, Swapping lines from carb 1 to carb 2 does not change the problem. It stays on carb 1. So there is no restriction damping the reading.
I will check again valve clearance It is a good point.
Oiling on cams has been checked when installing new camshaft using method of "Hack a week" video.

On my side, I am thinking of insulator (Carb boot). Could it be a possible cause to this problem?









CB750 K1 owner.

Offline flybox1

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 12:21:57 PM »
TT was referring to calibrating your gauges.
One at a time, connect them all to the same vacuum port, and verify they all are reading the same vacuum.

yes, old cracked insulator boots can cause vacuum leaks.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline Mushu

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 02:59:10 PM »
Thanks Flybox1,

I will "calibrate my gauge". You are right, I did not understood Twotired recommendation.

CB750 K1 owner.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 05:53:19 PM »
No doubt calibrating the gauge is a good thing.  I use an aquarium manifold to connect my gauges to a common vacuum source either a vacuum pump or a single intake runner.  This way I can set all the dampers for equal needle positions.

But a lazy needle can be the result of a restriction in the test tubing path or port tap, as well as a faulty gauge.  Had a spider camp out in a tube once.

Therefore, swap all the bits between the carb throat runner as well as the gauge to eliminate any possibility of apparatus faults.

You don't want to "fix" an engine because of a test setup problem.    You want to know for sure that a vacuum issue truly exists in the runner.

I've been bitten by test equipment faults in many aspects of trouble shooting.  So when the eyebrow goes up, and "what the..." comes out of your mouth, make sure your database for problem solving is accurate.

You have to ask yourself, what can cause weak intake pulses?  Unfortunately, most answers involve some sort of mechanical issue, if it isn't a false reading.

One more thing.  All your new parts aren't new anymore, after they've been put into service.  Sometimes they have very short expiration dates due to unseen influences.
I once ruined a brand new rebuilt V8 engine because the cam bearings were installed wrong. Oil starvation doesn't take very long to muck up an engine, new or old.  The thing ate itself up with zero miles on it, because I didn't believe the only oil pressure gauge I had (a used one) was working (the needle never budged and I couldn't bleed the pressure tube).
Early hard lesson$.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Mushu

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Re: CB750 K1 Carb Synchronization Help needed
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 04:31:42 AM »
 I finally decided to buy new carb boots (Insulators) from David Silver.

Vacuum on carb 1 and all carbs are now synchronized and react to throttle  at the same time.
The carb boots were not too old (10 years) but carbs have been removed frequently during this period.

Idle become very stable.

Problem is solved.

Thanks for your help.

SOHC4 is jewel that we must take care as it provides an expertise which is unique.



CB750 K1 owner.