Topic: Dyna S on Ebay - Dumb Idea?

[Terry in Australia]

Years ago I got around for months with two 6 volt dolphin lantern batteries when my battery died

Are Dolphin batteries rechargeable John? And I have to ask, why didn't you just install another battery mate?

[Ridem32]

Had a 1953 panhead. It was a 12 volt system with points. Only used one battery 6 volts with polarity reversed. Bike ran fine. Had to unhook the generator. But it got me home. About 20 miles


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[cb400f/20yo/semi-broke.]

My dyna s1 just failed. would only go back if money was not a problem for me

[754]

Had a 1953 panhead. It was a 12 volt system with points. Only used one battery 6 volts with polarity reversed. Bike ran fine. Had to unhook the generator. But it got me home. About 20 miles


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I am pretty sure my buddy rode his 59 pan, from Vancouver to here, on a lantern battery... About 280 miles..

[Ridem32]

But you do have to reverse the battery cables.  I was using one battery not 2


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[PetesPonies]

Again people don't understand.Making claims when you don't understand something is bad for everyone. It promotes misinformation. Cars are 12V as well as motorcycles, sure. But the voltage is lowered when it goes to the ignition system. Voltage is easily changed in a series circuit with resistance. Resistance acts as a voltage divider and depending on the resistance chosen, you can have any voltage output desired up to the full voltage. This is what happens and why a 12-14V vehicle with points, has only 8-9V in the primary circuit of the ignition. This is where I get a bit uneasy and quick when I see misinformation passed along. I'm not sure why anyone here doubts the facts, except that they just don't know.

[Lostboy Steve]

Who gives a #$%* how they work? They work. There is NOTHING wrong with a properly adjusted points system. I run them in a daily driven corvair that I beat the ever-loving piss out of.


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[754]

Motorcycles are 6V and 12 V.

[PetesPonies]

Well just because you don't care doesn't mean the world doesn't have to care? Be real. They work, just not as well. If you don't give a crap, good for you. And if you don't want to learn, good for you too. But some people like to learn and understand.

[PetesPonies]

Motorcycles are 6V and 12 V.

Of course. But the point ( punny huh? ) is 12V doesn't mean 12V is going through the primary ignition circuit with a points system, because it doesn't.

[TwoTired]

Driving down the road system voltage is about 13 V.  ...What with the alternator/ regulator operating.

Bike's wiring distribution from battery to coil, if maintained, loses about 0.5 V at most.  (It can be less in un-maintained bikes.)  So, 12.5V is presented to the coil hot side primary.

Proper points present no resistance at full contact.  It's a metal to metal contact, very near zero ohms, effectively presenting a low resistance battery neg return to the coil opposite the battery supply connection to the other coil primary lead (neg).

I can't find on any SOHC4 wire diagram where there is any other resistance present in the coil primary circuit. 

Admittedly, there are battery load conditions at startup, that can lower power distribution voltage.  But, that seems a corner case, certainly for consideration, but not a normal run time case.

I'm not seeing a reason for a 3-4 volt loss that's not presented to the coil primary? 

Forgive my abject stupidity.

[seanbarney41]

TT, I think PetesPonies is referring to certain automotive systems (i.e. Chevy's and Mopar at least, I don't know about Ford) that provide full voltage to the coil only when the engine is cranking, but cut voltage to around 9 volts after the engine is running via a resistance wire(Chevy) or a ballast resistor(Mopar) to prolong breaker point life...this is totallly irrelevant in regards to SOHC4 bikes, as they do not use such circuitry.

[TwoTired]

Gold wings have a drop resistor, too, as well as many cars.  But, the thread is in the SOHC4 Bikes forum, so I assumed...

The ballast resistor is not just for breaker point life.  Many use 6V coils for extra spark at start up, which simply overheat and produce melty bits when operated consistently on 13-14 volts.

More... off topic...
I've had a Mark ten CD ignition (Radio Shack kit I assembled) in my 72 Ford truck, since the 80s.  Same set of points since then, too.
Fully loaded on the way to AZ did 95 MPH while teasing a later model Corvette on I40.  No premeditation, it just happened. 
I don't think he appreciated the original patina on my truck.  Just a guess.

There's a bypass switch on the unit, in case of EMP. 

But, the unit did fail one day, 10 or 20 years ago.  Had to use that bypass switch.   Problem was a transistor switch inside.  I replaced that and it still works to this day.

I should probably check the points setting next tune up...

[Terry in Australia]

Who gives a #$%* how they work? They work. There is NOTHING wrong with a properly adjusted points system. I run them in a daily driven corvair that I beat the ever-loving piss out of.


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Wow, you drive a Corvair Steve? Well in that case your ignition is the least of your problems!

[jonda500]

Years ago I got around for months with two 6 volt dolphin lantern batteries when my battery died

Are Dolphin batteries rechargeable John? And I have to ask, why didn't you just install another battery mate?

Carbon zinc dry cells aren't meant to be rechargeable- but I have found they will accept a small amount of charge, and didn't explode like they're meant to when I've done it.

I couldn't afford a new battery at the time, 2 cheap lantern batteries at the time only cost me $4.70 
John 

[Lostboy Steve]

Well just because you don't care doesn't mean the world doesn't have to care? Be real. They work, just not as well. If you don't give a crap, good for you. And if you don't want to learn, good for you too. But some people like to learn and understand.

Oh no, I know exactly how, I also know how the others work, I'm just saying this is a dumb argument. I would love to see a dyno chart showing an improvement. Significant, not 2% because that's just a waste anyway.

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[Lostboy Steve]

Who gives a #$%* how they work? They work. There is NOTHING wrong with a properly adjusted points system. I run them in a daily driven corvair that I beat the ever-loving piss out of.


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Wow, you drive a Corvair Steve? Well in that case your ignition is the least of your problems!

I love it. Probably one of the safer cars ive owned. Has a gasoline heater too!

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[Terry in Australia]

Geez, if a Corvair ("Unsafe at any speed") is one of your safer cars Steve, what the hell were you driving before it? A Fred Flinstone car?

[754]

Stop bugging him about his Pinto and Fiero....
 You just envious , as they wouldnt sell them to your bunch...

[Terry in Australia]

That's BS Frank, I'm the proud owner of a Ford Exploder, way more upmarket than a Corvair, but just as dangerous!

[scottly]

TT, I think PetesPonies is referring to certain automotive systems (i.e. Chevy's and Mopar at least, I don't know about Ford) that provide full voltage to the coil only when the engine is cranking, but cut voltage to around 9 volts after the engine is running via a resistance wire(Chevy) or a ballast resistor(Mopar) to prolong breaker point life...this is totallly irrelevant in regards to SOHC4 bikes, as they do not use such circuitry.

Ford does the same thing; the starter solenoid has a terminal marked "I" that bypasses the resistance when the starter is operating. I have a Ford Motorcraft coil that came with the 289 I originally installed in my Cobra kit-car that is marked "12V use external resistor". A V-8 coil must produce 4 sparks every revolution of the crank, while our coils only produce 1 each. In order to due this, the car coil has a much lower primary resistance, like 1.5 ohms compared to 5 ohms, which greatly increases the current through the points. With a 1.5 ohm resistor, the running current is cut in half, to allow longer point life. BTW, I traded the "kit-car from hell" for the dyno.

[PetesPonies]

Most all points systems provide full voltage to the primary system during starting. But as soon as the starter is disengaged, the system reverts back to 8-9V.

[scottly]

Not on our bikes.

[PetesPonies]

Ah . . but you have something else . .you have twin coils.They have their own resistance . You put two in series and you effectively cut the power in half to each primary circuit. So even though the operating voltage may be 13-14V, each primary circuit is seeing only 6-7V.

[scottly]

Ah . . but you have something else . .you have twin coils.They have their own resistance . You put two in series and you effectively cut the power in half to each primary circuit. So even though the operating voltage may be 13-14V, each primary circuit is seeing only 6-7V.

The coils on our bikes are not in series...