Topic: Honda mower help - won't start

[Duke McDukiedook]

Hey guys,

Having troubles with my 15 or so year old Honda Harmony II mower - model HRR216K2SDAA mower that did not want to start on the last go around. It had a few stumbling issues the last couple of mows that I attributed to old gasahol from last season I was trying to use up. I changed the oil before this season and sharpened the blade, changed to spark plug since it wouldn't start and checked the engine stop switch and put ethanol free regular and no go.

I didn't know these were ground to kill switches and assumed it was an always open switch but found out different at the local shop. Checked the coil and the primary read 1.2 ohms and secondary was about 12K Ohms so that seems OK. I accidently sheared off the damned bolt holding the air filter and carburetor on so I need to back that out and replace so I guess I will check the car b body next. Any other things I should be checking in the meantime?

[Ridem32]

Is the plug firing? If it is carb is stopped up.  Need to find out if it's fire or fuel


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[Duke McDukiedook]

I will check tonight for fire, just ordered a new carburetor because it was only $15 for the whole shebang!

[Ridem32]

I will check tonight for fire, just ordered a new carburetor because it was only $15 for the whole shebang!

That's cheap enough lol


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[Duke McDukiedook]

For getting the sheared end of the bolt out of the head are there any tried and true methods you guys have found that works? The store I was at the guy recommended using a #1 Century Drill & Tool Co. Screw extractor. They recommend using a left handed 5/64" drill bit and then putting the screw extractor in a tap wrench and hopefully it will come out intact. The bolt is a flange bolt 6x85 that has threads on the last inch or so. Luckily I put anti-seize on the bolt before I sheared it so hopefully that will help. Any suggestions are appreciated.
 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Man, I thought ALL Honda mowers start on 1 pull!! I increased the rpms by adjusting the governer on mine for the tall thick grass. Other than that I installed a new blade this year. All good to go.

My guess would be the carb. On my old Briggs I would have to pull the plug and insert my lighted grill lighter to burn off the gas in the cylinder, reinstall the plug and she fired up. Got tired of doing that after 4 years or so and bought my Honda.

Please report back when you get her fixed.   

[Duke McDukiedook]

OK. The HEI spark tester I bought was defective so now I am going to narrow in on the carburetor.
I got spark by just hooking up the sprk plug and grounding it to the case. 
I ordered a new one (carb) but they held the order for a few parts on back order so I am going to crack that puppy open and see what I can do.
 

[Steve F]

Gumout Carb Cleaner and compressed air are your friends!  Spray it down over a fresh white paper towel and you'll be amazed at all the crap that gets flushed out.

[scrapvalue]

Have you drained the float bowl?
 

[madmtnmotors]

Have you considered a bigger engine? Maybe a 500 or 550cc? They've got to be good for something!     

[333]

Can't remember if the valves are adjustable, but worth a look.  I have a TroyBilt 4 stroke weed wacker that needs regular checks/adjustments.

[Duke McDukiedook]

I tried to use left-handed drill bits to get the old screw out and it didn't work so I'll just take it into the local lawn mower repair guy and see if he can clean it out and re-tap the threads.
I took the carb apart and cleaned it out and there was not a whole lot of sediment in there and nothing looked horribly gunked up.
I cleaned it out with carb spray and wires and compressed air and put it back together. The float and float needle looked fine from what I could see.
I'll have to see what the local repair guy can do about that bolt hole.
 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Looks like helicoils are in my future after talking to the repair guys. 

[northern]

My old lawnmower was not a Honda but a couple of problems and solutions that I had.

As it aged it became harder to start. I found that taking the float bowl off each spring and gently bouncing the float up and down will letting fresh gas flow through really helped. I think I would have burned it to the ground long before now if I had not been told this trick by my brother.

A couple of years ago it just would not start. It had fresh gas, plug had spark, appeared to have compression, clean air filter and every once in a while it would fire and give me hope. I was prepared to buy a new mower.  Having a beer with a friend and was telling him my mower woes....... He said, simple engine, it can't be tough, bring it over.......   So i did, he did a few simple checks and didn't find anything and sent me home with his mower to cut my lawn. It wasn't long before he called......  The shear pin on the flywheel on the top of the engine had been sheared. With the timing running off of the flywheel and the flywheel no longer connected to the crank it would not run.   A new shear pin and I was back mowing. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Does it have a low oil sensor? They go bad, but it is simple to jump them.

No, this mower is not that advanced.

[Duke McDukiedook]

My old lawnmower was not a Honda but a couple of problems and solutions that I had.

As it aged it became harder to start. I found that taking the float bowl off each spring and gently bouncing the float up and down will letting fresh gas flow through really helped. I think I would have burned it to the ground long before now if I had not been told this trick by my brother.

A couple of years ago it just would not start. It had fresh gas, plug had spark, appeared to have compression, clean air filter and every once in a while it would fire and give me hope. I was prepared to buy a new mower.  Having a beer with a friend and was telling him my mower woes....... He said, simple engine, it can't be tough, bring it over.......   So i did, he did a few simple checks and didn't find anything and sent me home with his mower to cut my lawn. It wasn't long before he called......  The shear pin on the flywheel on the top of the engine had been sheared. With the timing running off of the flywheel and the flywheel no longer connected to the crank it would not run.   A new shear pin and I was back mowing.

I guess I could check that but when I spun the flywheel I felt compression build up in the plug hole. That makes me think things are mostly ok in the mechanical area.

[BomberMann650]

Have you tried screaming threats at it?   

[Duke McDukiedook]

I think that is the next step in the escalation chart if this helicoil doesn't work.

[Steve F]

My old lawnmower was not a Honda but a couple of problems and solutions that I had.

As it aged it became harder to start. I found that taking the float bowl off each spring and gently bouncing the float up and down will letting fresh gas flow through really helped. I think I would have burned it to the ground long before now if I had not been told this trick by my brother.

A couple of years ago it just would not start. It had fresh gas, plug had spark, appeared to have compression, clean air filter and every once in a while it would fire and give me hope. I was prepared to buy a new mower.  Having a beer with a friend and was telling him my mower woes....... He said, simple engine, it can't be tough, bring it over.......   So i did, he did a few simple checks and didn't find anything and sent me home with his mower to cut my lawn. It wasn't long before he called......  The shear pin on the flywheel on the top of the engine had been sheared. With the timing running off of the flywheel and the flywheel no longer connected to the crank it would not run.   A new shear pin and I was back mowing.

I guess I could check that but when I spun the flywheel I felt compression build up in the plug hole. That makes me think things are mostly ok in the mechanical area.

Having compression and the flywheel in the right place have nothing to do with each other.  Pull the flywheel and check.

[northern]

My old lawnmower was not a Honda but a couple of problems and solutions that I had.

As it aged it became harder to start. I found that taking the float bowl off each spring and gently bouncing the float up and down will letting fresh gas flow through really helped. I think I would have burned it to the ground long before now if I had not been told this trick by my brother.

A couple of years ago it just would not start. It had fresh gas, plug had spark, appeared to have compression, clean air filter and every once in a while it would fire and give me hope. I was prepared to buy a new mower.  Having a beer with a friend and was telling him my mower woes....... He said, simple engine, it can't be tough, bring it over.......   So i did, he did a few simple checks and didn't find anything and sent me home with his mower to cut my lawn. It wasn't long before he called......  The shear pin on the flywheel on the top of the engine had been sheared. With the timing running off of the flywheel and the flywheel no longer connected to the crank it would not run.   A new shear pin and I was back mowing.

I guess I could check that but when I spun the flywheel I felt compression build up in the plug hole. That makes me think things are mostly ok in the mechanical area.

Compression is not going to change if the shear pin is gone on the fly wheel.



Once the shear pin has broken the flywheel is no longer attached to the crankshaft. The ignition is timed by the flywheel. Therefore if the flywheel is not timed to the crank your plug will fire at the incorrect time.

Probably not your issue, but something to take a quick look and see.

[jaytee-nz]

Honda mowers are cold blooded (just like their SOHC bikes) so one thing to check (in addition to all the good advice already received) is the choke operation.
I owned a mower shop a few years back and the only issue we regularly had with these engines was the choke not operating correctly.
Check that when you push the throttle lever all the way down that it is activating the choke flap tab all the way. If you can push that tab further even with the throttle fully depressed, you need to move the throttle cable clamp beside the carb so that the cable pushes that tab all the way and therefore fully activates the choke.

[RAFster122s]

Shear pin may shear if you hit something rather than bend the shaft of the mower. Mower may work after that and then later the flywheel slips causing running problems.
So, a broken sheer pin can happen and it can vary everytime you start it or run it or it could not move for months. 
You never know something minor can fracture it and then another bump and it shears...
Seen some crazy stuff with small motors used on mowers and weedeaters.
At least it is a Honda, they generally last a good long time.  My brother has terrible luck with push mowers but he has a wooded lot and they have several rocks.  They have a good friend who maintains them for them...Donnie is working on or fixing one for them a couple times every year. They don't hit rocks or the like...
David

[jaytee-nz]

Most modern mowers (in our part of the world anyhow) are fitted with large circular discs bolted to the crankshaft end to which small blades are bolted around the outside edge, rather than the old "bar" blade design (one piece blade). The idea being if the blades hit a solid object like a tree stump or root, the blades will flick to the side and the force is not transmitted up the crankshaft. This prevents bent crankshafts and / or broken crank pins.

[RAFster122s]

That's too logical and so many mowers here are designed with limited life to ensure sales, greedy companies and it so many owners do not spend much on a push mower, so the $150-175 or $125 US mower is very basic and not designed to last long.  The John Deere and Honda and several other brands are made to last and probably now have the breakaway designs.  The mowers I use are a John Deere 5hp push mower and Simplicity riding mower.  The push mower is over 10 years old now, the Simplicity is over 14 years.  The later will probably be un-repairable if something major happens as there are many parts which now are no longer available.  It tends to eat the transmission pulleys for the drive belt about every 2-3 years.  It is around $125 for the pulley and the belt was $45 the last time it needed this 2 years ago.  The yard I maintain is 32,855 square feet (43550 sq ft in an acre).
David

[Duke McDukiedook]

43,560 and some change sqft. in an acre actually. I will check those things also because I have to take the engine off to correctly drill this old bolt out on my drill press- keeps wanting to wander on me with a hand drill.