Author Topic: Oil Cooler Thread (Read 157409 times)

CBNJ74 · « **Reply #875 on:** August 18, 2011, 06:33:53 AM »

Boy I really stirred the pot here. Any who last night I removed the filter cover and was greeted by a very large nut which I assume is holder the adapter plate in place. If I get the adapter plate off will I be able to just screw the filter and cover back on? If this gives me anymore trouble I'll probably just run off to Pep Boys and get some new lines and put it back the way I got it from the privious owner.

MCRider · « **Reply #876 on:** August 18, 2011, 06:38:20 AM »

Quote from: CBNJ74 on August 18, 2011, 06:33:53 AM

Boy I really stirred the pot here. Any who last night I removed the filter cover and was greeted by a very large nut which I assume is holder the adapter plate in place. If I get the adapter plate off will I be able to just screw the filter and cover back on? If this gives me anymore trouble I'll probably just run off to Pep Boys and get some new lines and put it back the way I got it from the privious owner.

That's my memory. The big nut is the extension needed for the stock bolt. The stock bolt is retained with or without the cooler adapter.

OCICBW

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #877 on:** August 19, 2011, 09:54:03 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on August 17, 2011, 10:48:46 PM

Quote from: Terry in Australia on August 17, 2011, 07:58:17 PM
If that's right Lloyd, then why did Honda offer a factory oil cooler kit for the SOHC CB750's as an optional extra, along with steering dampers, dual disc conversions, etc, and why did all of the (aircooled) DOHC 750's, 900's and 1100's built after the first SOHC4's all come with oil coolers as standard?
Maybe the same reason why some auto manufacturers offer a police option as well as many other options not included with the base model.
And to placate those who get it in their tiny brains that things found on special purpose race machines also belong on ordinary street machines.
Many of the auto manufacturers made options available, in order to run cars competitively in a production class. These options aren't required to drive across country or around town. They were for winning races, and available as bragging rights for wanna be racers with more money than practical sense.
Weren't the CB750's in a factory race class during those days? As I said, if you run at peak power and in hot weather all the time taxing the air cooling system, oil coolers can help the oil live longer. Do you think an oil cooler would be of primary benefit in an arctic setting?

Regarding the DOHC4 diversional rathole BS. The extra geegaws were a sales device. It's called marketing toward competitor offerings or what the consumer demands, rather than what they actually need. Joe Cool see a Yamaha with an oil cooler on it. Gee, Yamaha's must be SO powerful that they need an oil cooler just like the race bikes have. What? Honda does have one? Well, it must be inferior or underpowered, then.
Can you explain why SUVs become so popular? Or, bikes capable of 200MPH driven off the showroom floor? Was there a crying need for that on the urban highways? As for modern bikes, if I were an engineer and the marketing guys told me I had to include an oil cooler, I'd make use of it the best way I could. What you fail to realize is that whatever production machine you choose, it was made as a total package, and not some piecemeal parts assemblage that was contrived in some backwater garage. A part or subsystem necessary for a modern machine can easily be superfluous on and older one. Imagine fuel injection and a turbocharger in a model T Ford. If the engine survived the hop up, would the rest of the drive train?

Ya know, I've seen weight lifters who can lift 500 lbs wearing those cool weight belts. If I put on a cool belt like that, I can lift 500lbs, too?

Anyway, you've presented no real information about why oil coolers should be included other than:
- "why not, if it is possible put one on,
- because somebody else did it in a different application,
- or some other orthogonal rationale."
It's kinda like bucket seats, ape hangers, oversize tires, pod filters, drag pipes, clubman bars, solo seat, or anything else that fits the "style" image foisted upon the subject bike. What real data do you have that shows adding an oil cooler to a stock SOHC4, in any way extends its longevity?
We have example bikes without oil coolers that have lasted beyond 100K miles. Do you have evidence showing benefit with an oil cooler in an A/B comparison with the only variable being an oil cooler? Or, are you just selling a dream, wish, or hope, as so much of today's marketing does?

As and oil cooler manufacturer//provider, I would expect you would have done laboratory testing to prove the benefits of your offered device. Will you share that data/evidence with us please?

Cheers, Lloyd

Oh dear, another rambling, long winded diatribe from an angry old man with no first hand subject knowledge, just your usual over inflated self opinion. Short on any real information, and long on insulting invective.

I asked you why you believed that CB750's don't, in your opinion need an oil cooler, considering that Honda DID offer a factory oil cooler kit for the CB750, and you went around and around, but didn't actually answer the question. It was a simple question Lloyd, if Honda didn't think them necessary, why did they go to the trouble of designing, manufacturing and selling them?

I asked why Honda have fitted oil coolers as standard to just about all of their air cooled multi cylinder bikes since, and you answered that they (and every other motorcycle manufacturer apparently) did it just to make them look nice? What the hell?

Oh, and you asked me why I hadn't done any laboratory testing during the development of my cooler adapters? Well I'll let you into a little secret Lloyd, they are VERY similar to just about every other oil cooler adapter ever built, and all they actually do is divert oil from the engine, through a radiator and back into the engine again. Simple, but extremely effective. I do test them though, but unlike you, I don't ride my bikes like a little old lady, so for me, the road is my "Laboratory".

No need to reply either thanks Lloyd, I still want back the 10 minutes of my life I wasted reading your previous load of horse shiit..............

BobbyR · « **Reply #878 on:** August 19, 2011, 11:01:41 AM »

The burning question that has haunted me throughout this is. What brand of Oil cools best?

Patrick · « **Reply #879 on:** August 19, 2011, 11:05:26 AM »

NO brand of oil cools properly without the right tires.....

wrenchmuch · « **Reply #880 on:** August 19, 2011, 12:05:36 PM »

This thread is like a good friend who lives in another country who you might see once a year . Welcome back friend . : Whale oil cools best .

BobbyR · « **Reply #881 on:** August 19, 2011, 12:14:06 PM »

Quote from: Patrick on August 19, 2011, 11:05:26 AM

NO brand of oil cools properly without the right tires.....

Thank you. I still have the original tires from 1978 and they have some tread, and the duct tape I put on the tube seems to be holding. I have been trying to pull the Ton all week. I will pack the oil tank side cover full of ice and see if I can save some $$$.

wrenchmuch · « **Reply #882 on:** August 19, 2011, 12:32:17 PM »

Dry ice will work better and last longer .

CBNJ74 · « **Reply #883 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:11:29 PM »

Well it's off and the bike has yet to explode. I'll tag this one up as a success.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #884 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:31:27 PM »

Quote from: CBNJ74 on August 24, 2011, 07:11:29 PM

Well it's off and the bike has yet to explode. I'll tag this one up as a success.

If you don't want it anymore mate, sell it to me? I'm serious, I'm so busy making kits for other members here at the moment I don't have time to make one up for my BOTM winning K2, "Goldie", and summer is fast approaching, so I'd like to fit one before we start getting 100+ degree days again, Goldie's engine was recently rebuilt, so a cooler will be cheap insurance against another mega-dollar rebuild. Cheers, Terry.

CBNJ74 · « **Reply #885 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:25:09 AM »

Quote from: Terry in Australia on August 24, 2011, 07:31:27 PM

Quote from: CBNJ74 on August 24, 2011, 07:11:29 PM
Well it's off and the bike has yet to explode. I'll tag this one up as a success.

If you don't want it anymore mate, sell it to me?

I think I'm going to hold onto it for a while. I'm new to this CB game so my opinions on this topic may change later on down the line.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #886 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:42:30 PM »

Quote from: CBNJ74 on August 25, 2011, 06:25:09 AM

I think I'm going to hold onto it for a while. I'm new to this CB game so my opinions on this topic may change later on down the line.

Good for you mate, I'm surprised that you have any suspicions regarding the benefits of oil coolers on SOHC4's considering that your Triumph and your BMW have them fitted as standard? Cheers, Terry.

BobbyR · « **Reply #887 on:** August 25, 2011, 07:14:33 PM »

The ice in the sidecover did not work out well. It blew water down my leg and made me look like I went in my pants.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #888 on:** August 25, 2011, 07:18:40 PM »

Quote from: BobbyR on August 25, 2011, 07:14:33 PM

The ice in the sidecover did not work out well. It blew water down my leg and made me look like I went in my pants.

C'mon Bobby, tell the truth old fella, incontinence is common for you "Senior citizens"!

BobbyR · « **Reply #889 on:** August 26, 2011, 06:03:05 AM »

OK OK, I confess.

Seriously, I may actually consider a cooler since the summer temps have been getting much higher around here lately. The volume of oil Honda is fairly high considering the size of the motor. Everything on my motor is finned and if you look at it, there is a relatively small amount of oil in the lower sump, a larger amount in the finned filter housing and the majority seems to be in the oil tank. I suspect they send the oil back up to the oil tank where is slightly cooled and send it back into the engine. I see that Honda is using water water cooling on their 650 twins which are thumpy slow turning motor. Time and testing must have told them the motors were running too hot.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #890 on:** August 26, 2011, 08:42:02 PM »

I know what you're saying Bobby, but the problem that I see with the "finned engine" theory is that it's not just the combustion process that heats the oil, it's the friction caused by the whole engine/clutch/transmission deal, but the only decent finning is on the cylinder head and cylinder block, the rest of the "finning" is marginal at best.

So you've got a great big aluminum box full of metal parts spinning and whirring away at blinding speed with a small quantity of very hot oil (water boils at 212 deg F, and oil commonly runs at 270 deg +) being splashed around trying to lubricate everything, with no cooling at all, apart from wind pressure while you're on the move. The wind pressure will cool the front of the engine's cases slightly, and wick the heat away from the finned "heatsinks" around the head and cylinders, but not sufficently to cool the oil as it circulates.

By circulating the oil outside of the engine thru a radiator that is sitting out in the cool air forward of the engine, you effectively reduce the oil temperature, which helps the oil maintain it's viscosity, reducing internal friction and lowering the temperature of the internal components. By increasing the viscosity of the oil, it also increases the oil pressure.

I often hear the argument that oil coolers are for high performance bikes only and are wasted on stock bikes. That is absolute bullshiit, any bike will benefit from cooler oil, and most folks don't realise that riding "two up", particularly if you're carrying a bit of weight, (like a fair bit of luggage, or you're into fat chicks) or you're commuting in city traffic in summer, or you're "canyon racing" on your favourite mountain roads with your mates, (or you simply want to see if your bike will do the ton) this will increase the heat of your engine/clutch/transmission exponentially.

This isn't "science" or "snake oil", it's just common sense. If it wasn't, why would your local auto parts store sell engine and transmission oil coolers for already water cooled cars and trucks that are used for hauling trailers and caravans etc? Because they work, and are cheap insurance against catastrophic mechanical failure. Cheers, Terry.

BobbyR · « **Reply #891 on:** August 27, 2011, 10:22:16 AM »

I agree Mate. We tend to put too much credence in engineering. I work now for a railcar manufacturer and as far as 10 years down the road they find an 'oops" whic has to be fixed. Cooling the oil makes sense. Honda probably would have used one if they were widely available for mass production.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #892 on:** August 27, 2011, 05:12:09 PM »

Ha ha, that's where the "Lloyd-ian theory" that "If Honda thought they needed one they would have fitted one as standard" comes in Bobby, as previously mentioned, Honda DID design, manufacture and sell oil coolers for the CB750's as optional extra's, but (I believe) determined that it would be too cost prohibitive to fit them as standard.

At the time the CB750 was reasonably priced for the technology that came with it, but I'm sure that Honda executives were mindful of the need to keep the price competetive. They did realise the errors of their ways with the introduction of the DOHC CB's though, and fitted oil coolers as standard. Cheers, Terry.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #893 on:** August 27, 2011, 08:56:21 PM »

They never came out with wind shields either but guess who has one?

Whoa...not stock equipment!!! I guess thats OK though since it suits CERTAIN people!!!!!

City Boy · « **Reply #894 on:** August 27, 2011, 10:45:47 PM »

Hi gang.I was unaware that there was an OEM cooler available for our CB's.Does anyone perchance have any photos of said item and I'm wondering too if it was piped to the feed or scavenge side of the system.Inquiring minds want to know.

heffay · « **Reply #895 on:** September 21, 2011, 10:16:00 AM »

36 pages?? Holy Begeezus!

No Terry, I still have not fit my cooler set up you built for me onto a bike. I'm enjoying the plethora of Aussie stamps plastered to the box too much.

I use cooking oil... it cools the best!

Patrick · « **Reply #896 on:** September 21, 2011, 10:22:25 AM »

This freaking thread is immortal. We may have to take its head to make it go away....

bikerbart · « **Reply #897 on:** September 21, 2011, 12:32:04 PM »

.I love this thread,I have to go make popcorn.

CBNJ74 · « **Reply #898 on:** September 21, 2011, 12:36:23 PM »

I'll post a pic soon of the amputated adapter plate and radiator.

Gearheadgreg · « **Reply #899 on:** September 21, 2011, 02:56:39 PM »

My CB 750F came stock with a OIL Cooler? did someone say Honda street bikes did not need them? ............................................CB750E-2600014 and CB750GE-1000014 F2
new cylinder head with bigger valves (34/31mm i/o 32/28mm), larger combustion chamber, larger carb mount rubbers, stronger cam chain, new camshaft, harder valve springs, new retainers, cotters, new pistons compression ratio 9/1. New rod big end bolts and bearings, harder clutch springs, additional fins on crankcase, larger fins on oil pan, "oil cooler" - finned plate between oil filter case and engine. Final drive 15/43 or 14/43.
CB750E-3100001 F3 http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/engine_mods/modifications.html

B&M Oil cooler brought down my Temp from 230* to 195* and helped with some detonation issues under Boost i was having, I made this setup myself and does not leak or sweat a drop in 7 years ! COOL IT BABY!!!

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Author Topic: Oil Cooler Thread (Read 157409 times)