Author Topic: Marissa's 1972 CB500  (Read 92948 times)

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Offline PeWe

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #175 on: February 23, 2018, 01:34:07 PM »
Maybe having an extra set of wheels if you like the other style too, Marissa? Maybe you'll find a good set.
I'm working on an extra rear wheel. I found a rear hub I have had for decades.
When rear tire is flat, I'll swap wheel in an hour or 2 . No need of fighting with tire replacement or take it to the rim butcher destroying the rim when changing tire.
I can do the tire when I have time over, enough to get it ready until the other rear is flat.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #176 on: February 23, 2018, 02:48:35 PM »
You all make me feel bad: my 750's rims look a LOT worse than Marissa's! The last time I installed a new rear Avon (2009) I had to CHIP away the rust on one side of the rim because the bead would not straighten out...I ended up using a doublewide rim band, covered with duct tape, just in case the chrome slivered off during install and might try to eat my tube...It still came out round, though!

I'm about to journey into my front wheel for a new Avon there, too. Hope it's better?

The abrasive quality of the rust and flaking chrome gave me the same concerns about tubes.
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Offline 754

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #177 on: February 24, 2018, 12:34:49 PM »
I usually wire wheel or  scrape and brush the rust off, want to see how bad it is underneath  before I decide to run it.
I got quite a few wheels and rims off ebay the last few years.
Some may be drilled a bit different than what you need. Sometimes you can tweak that.
I picked up a Sun rear rim, a front  with a Kawi  hub for under 100. Make sure you know if you have 36 or 40 hole rims.
I picked up a few DID as well, ..have seen Excels too... I usually find them under dragbike or flat track stuff.
A lot safer if you know what they came off... I think the worst are the dirt bike ones where the spokes are longer on one side.
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #178 on: February 24, 2018, 02:02:55 PM »
You all make me feel bad: my 750's rims look a LOT worse than Marissa's! The last time I installed a new rear Avon (2009) I had to CHIP away the rust on one side of the rim because the bead would not straighten out...I ended up using a doublewide rim band, covered with duct tape, just in case the chrome slivered off during install and might try to eat my tube...It still came out round, though!

I'm about to journey into my front wheel for a new Avon there, too. Hope it's better?

The abrasive quality of the rust and flaking chrome gave me the same concerns about tubes.

Me, too: I watch for slivers or chips, because they are sharp and surprisingly strong. As dust, if it can be captured under the rim strip, or sliced-off old tube (as a liner) or duct tape as a liner, I have used them.

This isn't to say it must be cared for: riding on very low tire pressures makes the grit migrate, usually outward to the bead areas. Good PSI is important!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Marissa

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #179 on: February 28, 2018, 09:34:08 AM »
Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Especially thanks to MauiK3 for bringing up the POR15. I completely forgot about that and I think it'll be the way to go for me! I have a can ordered so hopefully when it gets here it'll be nice enough out to test it.

I've decided to run this wheel and hold off on Excels. I will still invest in stainless spokes, however. I just need to measure the flanges on my hub and send them to Buchanan as they said Honda had discrepancies in the thickness (potentially why my hub has abrasions from the old spokes??) I have been cleaning the rim every time I'm out in the garage so hopefully I'll have final pics of the end result soon.

That being said, I finally got around to measuring my bronze bushings and the swingarm collar. Luckily the collar doesn't seem to be too out of round but there was one low spot I measured, I think that may have been user error however and I may have had the caliper on one of the grease groves. Will measure again to be safe and post them here.



My main concern is with the bronze bushing install: I froze these suckers for days and heated up the swingarm evenly, greased to no end- the first bushing went in like butter, the other is now about 1/4" from seating. At first I was partially concerned that this set was too long (referring back to a Honduran thread long ago) but I could have sworn the bushings I removed were the same height. It won't hurt for me to go back and check (as I will) but I'm assuming I just didn't use enough force to get it to seat before the bushing warmed up. If this ends up being the case, does anyone have a recommendation for getting it to seat? I have been using the hammer and block of wood method but this isn't working for this bushing. I have been heating it up and soaking it in PB and it did not budge further. I really don't want to damage the surface of the top hat.














1984 Nissan 300zx - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - daily
1972 Honda CB500 - infinite work in progress

Instagram- marissasimos

Offline 754

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #180 on: February 28, 2018, 10:29:58 AM »
Do you have access to a lathe, or a bushing driver kit, you want to insure  you are only pushing on the bushing, not the edge of the flange, which can break.
 If you get a good driver you can now use a press or a hammer, and hit it firm and hard.use a wood block  under the other side, get something or someone to hold the swingarm straight.
 Make a felt pen mark on the bushing so you can see if it moves. , if it does keep going.

It will likely need to be reamed, it will not be loose.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #181 on: February 28, 2018, 01:55:26 PM »
I’d use a length of all-thread and press it in that way.

Offline 754

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #182 on: February 28, 2018, 05:53:35 PM »
If you do use that method, use fine thread. And lube the threads.
Seeing as it stuck, I think it needs impact to get it going again.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline DaveBarbier

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Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #183 on: February 28, 2018, 06:49:29 PM »
754 is probably right, but thought I’d give another method.

If you do need to reduce the OD of the bushing, I’ll throw it in my lathe.

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #184 on: February 28, 2018, 07:54:37 PM »
I vote for all thread and a thick washer that puts the load on the bushing center and keeps it off the flange. Maybe light heating of the swing arm.
Here is a trick I learned back when I was a marine machinist building submarines.
When installing such bushings get enough isopropyl alcohol to submerge the bushing. Get some dry ice and put it in the alcohol and wait until the alcohol "boils" and looks like clear honey. Put the bushing in and let it get cold.
Get everything ready, heat the swing arm and drop in the cold bushing, have some way to hold it in place so it doesn't walk while it heats up.
Don't touch the liquid or the bushing, you'll get instant frost bite. I forget the temperature but it's way sub zero. Ventilate the area well.
Thank you for the shout out.

Be sure to use their topcoat on the POR15 to block uv.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #185 on: February 28, 2018, 07:56:21 PM »
One more thing
The spoke marks on the hub are pretty common, they also help with re-spoking by pointing the way.
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Offline Marissa

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #186 on: March 02, 2018, 07:03:33 PM »
So.

I just realized as I grabbed my micrometer tonight that both my caliper and my micrometer read in a .001" graduation, not a .0001" graduation like Hondaman specifies. I'm not totally comfortable relying on these measurements for something as important as the stability of the swingarm, not to mention the visual surface of it tells me it's pretty worn for what it is.

While I should invest in finer reading tools at some point, I'm considering just buying a NOS collar off eBay and installing that. I think it's cheap insurance and a worthy investment for a stable ride for a newbie! I am wondering if there could be potential issues with that fitting inside my current bushings though.

After soaking that bronze bushing in PB overnight and heating it up again, I was able to get it to sit flush after knocking some sense into it with a plastic dead blow mallet from harbor freight. I nicked the surface of the hat a bit but I don't think it will be an issue considering the faces are covered with the metal dust caps which are compressed by the frame.



I also decided it's a good idea to change out the zerk fittings for threaded ones with a more common bit so for future use it will be a breeze. I'm pretty sure I can drill and tap these at work so tomorrow I'm gonna look to see if the local hardware store has what I need and hopefully next week I can get that done.

Also, I started cleaning and sanding some of the aluminum bits for the rear when I noticed what looks like 91 written on the inside of the brake cover. Potentially the last time the brakes were done? so potentially this bike has been sitting since 91 or a little after that? Neat.



David Silver Spares appears to have gotten my old chain in the mail today, so hopefully Monday they'll be sending my new replacement out. Still waiting for my engine cases to come back from powder coat, I haven't heard anything this week. ETA is next week though so I can only hope I'll have everything by next Friday. But, even still, I want to finish the swingarm assembly and the frame before I move on to anything else. It's the only way I still feel organized and on budget.
1984 Nissan 300zx - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - daily
1972 Honda CB500 - infinite work in progress

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #187 on: March 02, 2018, 07:33:19 PM »
Make sure that in the end, the collar sticks out of the bushings (lengthwise) by at least 0.0004" minimum. I set one side flush, then measure the opposite end to see how far it sticks out.  The 25 ft-lbs torque on the bolt will reduce this length to 0. The original spec for this is 0.0004"-0.0012", but I have found that it takes more than the 40 ft-lb max to shrink the higher number to 0 when in the frame!

If it is already 0.0000" over those flanges, you will have to plane/sand/file/mill/something one of the flanges down a bit to get some clearance, or the arm will jam when you torque it in place.
;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline NobleHops

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #188 on: March 06, 2018, 08:07:41 PM »
Make sure that in the end, the collar sticks out of the bushings (lengthwise) by at least 0.0004" minimum. I set one side flush, then measure the opposite end to see how far it sticks out.  The 25 ft-lbs torque on the bolt will reduce this length to 0. The original spec for this is 0.0004"-0.0012", but I have found that it takes more than the 40 ft-lb max to shrink the higher number to 0 when in the frame!

If it is already 0.0000" over those flanges, you will have to plane/sand/file/mill/something one of the flanges down a bit to get some clearance, or the arm will jam when you torque it in place.
;)

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Offline Marissa

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #189 on: March 13, 2018, 11:09:54 AM »
I haven't gotten as much done in the past two weeks with these Nor'easters. I lost power for 3 days, and even now on my spring break I'm in the middle of a blizzard. This even put my powdercoater behind, so I still don't have my engine cases back.

I picked up some new zerk fittings to convert from press in to threaded.







I sanded down the rust on my rim further, and I was looking for evaporust everywhere and couldn't find it where I bought it previously, so I tried out Rustoleums Rust Reformer. It kinda sucks.











It looks like instead of actually converting the rust into anything, it just coats it and is supposed to turn black. This stuff turned black on everything that wasn't metal, and still stayed a mint color after days of curing on the rust. I sanded most of it off. I also got Zinc primer which apparently helps resist rust from emerging.



It wasn't much more than normal primer so I figured why not. I put one coat on but I haven't done anymore since as it's been too cold for paint.

I finally got my new primary chain in the mail. This one looks really great. I'm incredibly excited to start reassembly once my cases are back.





And my order came in for my engine seals, wheel bearings, and brake shoes. Unfortunately opened so I'm missing bits from the shoe kit and the bearings altogether from the damage. Luckily the seals are bagged together so I don't *think* I'm missing any. It looks complete. 4 into 1 is being great and sending me more, no questions asked.

1984 Nissan 300zx - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - daily
1972 Honda CB500 - infinite work in progress

Instagram- marissasimos

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #190 on: March 13, 2018, 04:39:37 PM »
Looks great.
I've used Ospho on rust to good effect. I got mine at Napa Auto.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Marissa

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #191 on: March 22, 2018, 01:04:56 PM »
Still slow progress,

I finally got the cases back from the powder coater. They came out decent, I paid $250 for the media blast with 2 base coats of Bengal Silver and a clear coat, the finish was pretty good (and you can see it's not too thick as the vin and bearing codes are still visible) my only complaint is the masking job. Some areas were pretty well taped off and others were just half assed. It's fine with me because it seems like this is the execution of every powder coater in CT and that you won't get a perfect finish, but at the same time it almost makes me wonder if I would be better off in the long run investing in a cheaper powder coating kit myself. Seems like no one puts in the prep work that you would want. But it's okay since this isn't going to be a show bike! I just have to spend more time cleaning it up for the gasket areas. And I'll likely have to chase most of the threads.

















Once I picked the cases up on my lunch break, I showed my coworker (the fabricator at the shop) my dilemma with the seized stud. He looked at it, and instantly he was able to weld a nut perfectly to what was left of the stud. I definitely need to brush up on my welding skills and likely invest in different tips/cups. I'm jealous of his skill!







So now the next part is a 3 step process to cleaning the cases. I started with Q tips and nail polish remover (convenient for me haha (just kidding, I haven't painted my nails in forever) ) to start. It's a bit more time consuming especially when covering the larger areas, but I want to make sure I'm not getting any alcohol near any area I don't want to. Precision > laziness here because this is a critically important step for the longevity of this engine. This step is not done until I scrub over every crevice of the engine internals and it does not stain the Q tip. Warning, you will feel like you are wasting a lot of Q tips, but I think it's probably worth it. Buy a box of 300 or so. Essentially this means the cases are free of any particles left over from the blasting and baking process. This is crucial because even though this dust is incredibly small, if left in the cases, oil will grab onto it and could carry it throughout the engine for multiple cycles. I am not risking "sanding" down the internals of the engine after doing this rebuild. Quite frankly I really hope I don't have to do this again for a very long time.

The next step is to chase all the threads to ensure no threads have left over blasting material or powder in them. Technically, most powder coaters should do a well enough job in this area, but in my case I have found some left over stuff already. It's good practice to never assume and just take either a tap or a bolt with vertical slots cut into it (use a dremel bit to it) and blast them out, then go into the threads with alcohol on a Q tip. Here is where I will install the ARP studs with blue loctite, you want to ensure no liquid is left on the threads anywhere because liquid can't really be compressed, and so if you torque anything down with fluid at the bottom, it could back out on you over time. Hence why if you blast them out, you want to chase them with alcohol (in case you don't have an air/oil separator on your air hose like me :) ) After all of this, I'll likely go over everything with a light coat of WD40 on a microfiber towel, mostly because I would feel weird assembling the case completely dry. This is just a plan I've come up with based on information I've found, so there could easily be some errors or better techniques so feel free to chime in!

Also, I've been told to never touch the bearing surfaces with your bare fingers as the oil in your hands could mess with the surfaces. I have no idea if it's really that drastic but I guess play it safe rather than sorry.

Buchanan spokes came in, I really love the subtle touch of the "B" on the face of the spoke. I started lacing them out of excitement and realized I shouldn't go further as I need to finish polishing the hub. (Not actually pictured because I forgot  :P )





Also, sad but true, when I was installing the rear wheel bearings (All Balls kit) I used the old bearing trick and somehow, the double seal faces got damaged even though everything was clean, likely I wasn't holding them stable enough if I had to guess. So this time around I went on Amazon and got the cheapest 11 piece bearing driver set ($15) which has drivers that fit perfectly with our bearings. I was quite upset to ruin brand new bearings and take them back out again, but another trick I did was take 2 of those plastic ice packs (the bag kind that are flexible) and once I had to pull the bearings out of the freezer to bring them in the garage, I stored them in the 2 frozen ice packs (like a sandwich) to keep them cool while I was heating up the hub. I don't know how much this helped but I know I certainly heated up the hub longer this time around because I knew the bearings were staying cool. Might be useful for anyone who is too cheap to buy dry ice or doesn't know where to get it.



Also, question for those who polish their aluminum pieces. What is the tried and true way to protect the surface here on SOHC? Has anyone here had experience in ceramic coating these pieces, if so what ceramic coating do you use?

I might be traveling to Italy this summer to study abroad. So I'm cutting off buying any other parts for now. Luckily, I have a horde of parts (and everything needed to reassemble the engine) so I'll be good for a while. But I still need to buy tires, a rebuild kit for the front end, likely a new repro wiring harness, and probably some more tools, also likely an exhaust now since I only have the Kooks X 4-2 system which was on the 500 engine.
1984 Nissan 300zx - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - daily
1972 Honda CB500 - infinite work in progress

Instagram- marissasimos

Offline flatlander

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #192 on: March 22, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »
you're doing some pretty thorough work there. can't comment on the alu coating because i like to just leave it bare, it polishes up easy enough.
and most importantly... i think i have the same water kettle  8)

Offline PeWe

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #193 on: March 22, 2018, 01:55:52 PM »
Good write-up. Might become a book later on!
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline DurangoCB

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #194 on: March 22, 2018, 02:00:34 PM »
So much respect for your skill and meticulousness, Marissa. Thanks for the detailed write-ups, too, so people like me can learn.
1971 CB500 Four- current project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170622.0.html
1978 CX500- next in line

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #195 on: March 22, 2018, 02:25:57 PM »
+1...I leave polished aluminum bare.

You will love Italia, I've been there 3 times and my parents are from there.  Great food, great wine and beware, the men will be chasing you!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #196 on: March 22, 2018, 02:36:26 PM »
yes italy is good. i think i like the south best, especially sicily for all the variety it has.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #197 on: March 22, 2018, 03:09:50 PM »
yes italy is good. i think i like the south best, especially sicily for all the variety it has.

Havent been that far South but loved Positano.  Had a religious experience there - saw a pack of Ferrari's on a rally!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #198 on: March 22, 2018, 06:04:25 PM »
Be sure to soak the new primary chain in oil for a while. I usually do overnight, and wiggle it around once in a while. They are poorly lubed out of the bag!

The polished cases: the act of polishing this aluminum alloy seems to seal it well. I did some of my engine cases and my front forks about 35 years ago, and since then I have only had to use some Simichrome twice to make them look new again.

When in Italy, see if you can find a Benelli Six (750cc) from the 1970s somewhere there. They copied the CB500 Honda almost to the bolt, adding to more 125cc cylinders either side, to make the first inline 6 bike! It's not a hotrod, nor does it handle very well, but being a Six it doesn't have to?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 06:10:01 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline calj737

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Re: Marissa's 1972 CB500
« Reply #199 on: March 22, 2018, 06:35:20 PM »
I’ve used silver ceramic on my hubs numerous times. A bit hard to see, but perhaps will give you an idea
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis