Topic: Marissa's 1972 CB500

[Marissa]

Hondaman,

If you have no use for them and they are just sitting, I’ll take them off your hands! I’d rather those than use the ones that came out of this bike.

[DaveBarbier]

Looks good Marissa! I don’t think I’d worry about the con-rod wrist pin bore. If there aren’t any high spots and the wrist pin slides in smoothly then that scratch will just hold more oil.

[Marissa]

Finally back!

Progress has been made but it certainly feels like an uphill battle from here on out.

I was able to paint the frame with POR Top Coat which came out rather well. I had it cure for a week, then I went to put the engine in the frame. I had someone help me lay the engine on it's side on some blankets and pillows, but when it came time to place the frame onto the engine I was alone. I ended up scratching the new paint in numerous spots and will have to touch up the frame later.









Finally got around to lacing up the wheel with the Buchanan spokes... It took a few tries mostly because I had to remove the inners to place in other inners, but once I figured that out it was fairly straight forward. Really high quality stuff, wish I could be running some Excel's with them, but maybe next season!

Wanted to see if anyone thought this was concerning on some new Avons I just got?? It didn't feel like dry rot but I don't like the look of it. I think it's fine but if anyone feels otherwise let me know!



Here's a look of the rear set up... It was quite a battle fitting a tube in a tubeless tire on this wheel, especially in the humidity we've been having here. When it came time to finally put the air in the tire up to spec, the tube sprang a leak and I'll have to do it all over again. I was careful not to pinch it and I did fill it with air lightly beforehand, but perhaps it caught on something. I'm thinking there's a chance a piece of the chrome was starting to flake after working the tire iron around and that maybe that's the culprit. Either way, I'm glad the tube is only about $15, but this is where the project is starting to get frustrating.



I now have to create a new sub harness, as I got a new harness from 4into1 which uses different style connectors.

So as of current, I'm stuck not knowing what step to take next. I can't buy any parts for a while aside from the tube. I'm thinking of working from rear to front, so once I correct the tire issue, I can then install everything else on the back end. From there, either I begin tackling wiring, or I finish rebuilding the front forks. After those, I can order Buchanans for the front and do the front tire and wheel.

With school around the corner and funds low, I'm worried I won't complete this by fall. If such is the case, then I'm disappointed in myself for rushing on a few things. Everything which is polished could be a lot better. The paint could have came out better, etc. etc. etc.

I'm just antsy to see this complete I guess. Here's how it was mocked up earlier today:

[calj737]

Did you apply rim tape to the backside between the tube and the rim? If not, the spokes will tear that tube perpetually.

You can simply swap the connectors on both ends with new, mating types - www.vintageconnections.com. Pretty inexpensive to do and easy enough.

[Gurp]

Quality build!!!

[MauiK3]

Marissa
Fear not, these things take time and each time you get better. Learning always has a price. Great job.
Steve

[RAFster122s]

You will know where any blemishes in paint, etc exist, few if any others will unless you tell them. So, just keep the secrets to yourself and improve on them next go around. You are rebuilding a nice looking bike. It is just under 50 years old after all...so relax about any small stuff. It is well put together and looks great. Take pride in it. 

You are not alone on pinches for the tubes... They are a pain to avoid. Baby powder can help along with rim savers so you do not chew up any chrome with tire spoons. It is a learning curve and I opted to just pay a local dealer to mount mine as it would be on them if they did a pinch flat. Sometimes you can talk them down on the price a bit...
Finding guys in a local club can yield cheaper places that will do the work. I paid $40 to have a front and rear mounted and balanced and I got to watch them do it.

[RAFster122s]

Rear tire is mocked up 180 degrees out...backwards.


Avon had problems with a batch or tires cracking sidewalls a few years ago. What is the four digit date code on the tires?  Do not accept tires not built this year. Take more photos and call up Avon regional reps and talk with them about it.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Marissa,

It's difficult to discern what's going on with that tire..  As RAF122S said, call AVON (you can also call their customer service line) and see if your tire was subject to any recall). 

When you inflate your tire to riding pressure, does that "line" appear to separate?  Or if you deflate the tube to zero, can you deform the sidewall to see if it separates as a crack?  If there's any real question, replace it (the seller should exchange it).  Your skin is worth more than a tire.

[Marissa]

Marissa,

It's difficult to discern what's going on with that tire..  As RAF122S said, call AVON (you can also call their customer service line) and see if your tire was subject to any recall). 

When you inflate your tire to riding pressure, does that "line" appear to separate?  Or if you deflate the tube to zero, can you deform the sidewall to see if it separates as a crack?  If there's any real question, replace it (the seller should exchange it).  Your skin is worth more than a tire.

I took that photo when I first unwrapped the tires. I could feel the pattern with my fingers, but it kinda felt like it could be extra material on the sidewall rather than a crack. I can try finding it again and keeping the tire inflated and watching what it does. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is concerned by it. In general, these tires had a lot of excess strips of rubber on the sidewall that came off like string when I unwrapped them. Gonna take a look at the date and update you guys when I have more stuff to add.

You will know where any blemishes in paint, etc exist, few if any others will unless you tell them. So, just keep the secrets to yourself and improve on them next go around. You are rebuilding a nice looking bike. It is just under 50 years old after all...so relax about any small stuff. It is well put together and looks great. Take pride in it. 

You are not alone on pinches for the tubes... They are a pain to avoid. Baby powder can help along with rim savers so you do not chew up any chrome with tire spoons. It is a learning curve and I opted to just pay a local dealer to mount mine as it would be on them if they did a pinch flat. Sometimes you can talk them down on the price a bit...
Finding guys in a local club can yield cheaper places that will do the work. I paid $40 to have a front and rear mounted and balanced and I got to watch them do it.

You bring up good points, thanks RAF. I'm going to call a local place and see if they quote me anything near that. It will be easier and time effective, since I can probably drop it off during the work week. For $40 it may be worth it.

Marissa
Fear not, these things take time and each time you get better. Learning always has a price. Great job.
Steve

Thank you for the words of encouragement, Steve!

Did you apply rim tape to the backside between the tube and the rim? If not, the spokes will tear that tube perpetually.

You can simply swap the connectors on both ends with new, mating types - www.vintageconnections.com. Pretty inexpensive to do and easy enough.

Calj, rim tape/strip is on! Thanks for the website link, gonna check it out after this post.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Chance are that the tire is okay, but there's no downside to making sure!

[seanbarney41]

I remember a few years ago, there was a common rash of Avon's with that flaw.  I never heard about it ever causing anyone any real problems.  Maybe just note the date code/batch number and contact Avon directly.

[MauiK3]

Marissa
Of course there is a cost for everything. The cost for all this help here on the site is we all want to see and hear it run when you are done!
It will be great to see it running.
No pressure, take your time.

[Stev-o]

I remember a few years ago, there was a common rash of Avon's with that flaw. 

The issue a few years back was premature dry rot and cracking, her tire does not appear to have cracks.

I bought Avons for my Z1 back in '14, great tire and luckily no issues  [just checked 'em!]

Wont hurt to contact Avon customer service and send 'em that photo.

[seanbarney41]

I remember a few years ago, there was a common rash of Avon's with that flaw. 

The issue a few years back was premature dry rot and cracking, her tire does not appear to have cracks.

I bought Avons for my Z1 back in '14, great tire and luckily no issues  [just checked 'em!]

Wont hurt to contact Avon customer service and send 'em that photo.

well, get some miles, dust, and wear on that flaw and it is gonna look just like dry rot/cracking

[piefairy]

For this being your first bike, with you having just a bit of riding in the wind, you have the patience of a saint.

Your build is looking great so far. When you are out and running, just make sure to keep the rubber side down.

Keep posting up, I would love to see the final product!

[Marissa]

Hi all,

Back at school, which ironically means I free up time to post, since I'm stuck between classes and can't go home until later.

I ended up bringing the wheel and tire to another local shop, who mounted and balanced for $40 and did it while I was on my lunch break. All in all, can't beat that speed and the price is a fair trade off for how frustrating it was. They were not concerned about the "cracking" appearance on the sidewall so I'll give it a go and see what happens.

So I started to button up the rear end. I was struggling a bit since I didn't photograph this part nearly as much as the engine. I just realized now that I had tried to install the OEM fiber top hats with the felt rings that are assembled in the swingarm, into the rear wheel assembly, and while I'm glad I realized what it was after about a week, I feel quite silly for thinking those went there. So, for any of you following this build, take pictures of all the parts, even when it feels overly easy, because sometimes (I find that I second guess every washer or o ring that I see in the parts diagrams because they are really hard to read/see) you'll end up flustered and wasting time on a part as small as a washer. I ended up breaking one of the fiber dust cover/top hat things too and had a moment where I was simply done with myself, when if I just took a step back I probably would have realized I didn't even need those pieces anymore.

Nonetheless! Here's some photos. As we get closer to it reassembling a motorcycle, the more I will be getting ready to double check all components and testing them however I can before I try starting it or bringing it on the road.




Pretty annoyed just how much better the brake shield looks in comparison to the hub. When I was polishing the hub, I guess I wasn't holding it to the same standard, yet again due to rushing!



The sprocket shield is held down by new hardware and blue loctite. I didn't want to reuse the old zinc washers that were already pretty chewed up, and I couldn't find any good replacements. I currently have all the nuts torqued down and the text on the faces pointing outwards, so if they for some reason back down, I'll be able to see it. The joker chain adjusters look great, and once this bike is road worthy I'll be swapping out the shock hardware for new ones. The chain will compliment it pretty well also.



Awful photo, I know. But can anyone confirm the fork seal orientation for new seals that DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT HAVE TEXT/NUMBERS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE SEAL? I bought reproduction seals off 4into1.com which do not say which orientation the seal goes in. I could have sworn I found on this forum that the smaller inner diameter of the two sides is the one that goes on top, but I've also found threads that say otherwise.



A really bad cross cut sketch of how I have installed them:

Also, for someone who likely isn't going to be a WOT racer all the time, is there still value in drilling out the front rotor?

I see value in it for whisking away water/debris from where the rotor and pad contact, but I'm not sure how often I'll get caught in rain. I prefer not to bring the bike out in that kind of weather after all of this, at least not until next season. I'm not sure how prone these rotors are to warping, and if they are tough + me not heating them up to an extreme extent, it might be better off to leave it blank. I will say though that if I did drill them, that I would try to chamfer the edges to resist cracking. 



Also, I'm caught on a crossroad with the top of the triple tree. So far every other part of the frame and triple tree is painted in POR Top Coat. I really love the patina where the wiring harness and cables worn down the paint to metal, but the black paint is more like a charcoal grey in comparison to the fresh new paint everywhere else. This will definitely bother me down the line, and while I've thought about tire shine and spray detailer to keep the old patina paint a darker hue, I don't see that working for a longer span of time. I don't think I can bring myself to repaint it. Anyone have thoughts/recommendations?

[MauiK3]

Marissa
Great to see you are still at it, looks good.
I think the fork seal is upside down but I don’t have a drawing for the 500 (550?).
I did POR 15 on all black parts and it’s really holding up well, although my K3 750 is very pampered, I admit.
As for brake rotors.. I sent mine to Tru Disc ( I may have the spelling wrong) for surfacing and drilling. The stainless is pretty notorious for being difficult to drill and work with. They came back perfect. I went with drilling to help hold off brake squeal, water shedding, if it ever became necessary, and last but most, it looks great. The weight loss is a minor improvement, especially with dual discs.

When you get to setting up the float bowls, do the clear tube method.

Best of luck
Steve

[calj737]

Tom @Trudisk blanchard grinds the rotors. No better treatment for them. Makes them perfectly flat on both sides. If you were decided to drill them, I used a mill and put about the same pattern you posted. A very slight chamfer was all that was necessary afterwards. But I think I'd stay stock as you "explained" if it were me...

[jgger]

For that top triple, you might try some clay bar. It won't hurt the coating but may cut through the oxidation.  Check out car detailers, they could probably fix you right up. Or just  buy some at Walmart.

[Marissa]

Tested the forks, and while I don’t have oil splashing out of them (success?) I noticed one of them wasn’t rebounding right. Drained the oil, noticed it was slightly dirty for brand new oil, and took the assembly apart to find that the damper rod assembly keeps seizing. There’s score marks on the damper rod in a couple of areas where it goes into the damper, and specifically where it gets stuck occasionally.

How does one go about finding a solution to this? I can only find the typical rebuilds which just go into cleaning them and replacing seals. I haven’t seen anything that says the damper and damper rod can be taken apart further and rebuilt. Do I need to retrofit something? Do I just have to have luck on my side and find a good used one?

The most information I’ve found with my searches is that some will soak them in wd40 and pump them until they eventually sort themselves out. I’ve been soaking this in ATF and pumping it but it will still get caught if you compress it more than halfway. The other fork acts nothing like this.

[DurangoCB]

calj77 advised me to soak the damper carts in diesel fuel, which I did for about 48 hours and it helped. The carts were still not completely smooth but we’re acceptable. I will upgrade the fork internals next year.

[seanbarney41]

sounds kinda like a bent fork tube...did you roll it around on perfectly flat surface to check?

[Marissa]

Turns out someone had drilled out one of the holes in the damper and didn’t clean metal shavings out from their sloppy work. I cleaned the damper for hours and I got it to stop seizing and catching thankfully.

One thing I recently noticed is that I’m having issues with my kick start: the spring functions and I get it to turn about 45 degrees to be level with the floor, but the problem is that there’s no resistance. I don’t have the bike set up yet to run but shouldn’t the kickstart be moving the crankshaft regardless if there is electrical set up yet? The engine is in neutral and the clutch line is set up correctly and the lever is not engaged. I assume the only way to confirm what is happening is to either drop the oil pan or split the cases again, neither of which I want to do but I’m guessing the kick start gear isn’t lining up where it should.

[ntapdave@yahoo.com]

Marissa, 
Nice post!  I to am starting a complete rebuild. However my bike is in horrible shape.
I just finished pulling the engine and carbs out of the frame. Then breaking it down to the frame.
I've already gotten good info and tricks from this thread.
I'll probably start my own project thread in a couple days.
More to come.