Author Topic: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?  (Read 8576 times)

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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« on: June 10, 2017, 04:34:39 AM »
I had a set of PD46c's on this bike and it ran perfect but they were old and needed a rebuild. The float bowls were leaking. After the rebuild there is a slight hang in idle about 1000-1500rpms for a few seconds. Idle is also somewhat inconsistent. I set the floats, I am using the same jets, nothing really changed. I am using the stock idle screw setting. I don't remember and didn't bother to check how I set them before the rebuild. The bike rides great and has perfect power across the range, but this slight hang in idle is driving me crazy. Could it just be these idle (air) screws? Thanks guys. I have a long trip to take on this thing tomorrow and am trying to straighten this out before I leave.

I should add that it smells rich at idle, and didn't before.


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« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 05:16:14 AM by Lostboy Steve »
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2017, 04:50:36 AM »
PD46C has what they call an IMS (Idle Mixture Screw) this one controls fuel because it's located after the slide.

To me it sounds like you need a sync or have a minor air leak in the rubber insulators or possibly where the manifolds attach to the head. There's an o-ring between those two parts.

If you changed nothing but only cleaned them, it seems reasonable that an air leak is the issue. Check with carb cleaner or propane gas as it's running for a change in RPM. I like the propane because it doesn't eat paint :)

Did you remove the slide needles or do anything to necessitate a sync?


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2017, 05:39:58 AM »
PD46C has what they call an IMS (Idle Mixture Screw) this one controls fuel because it's located after the slide.

To me it sounds like you need a sync or have a minor air leak in the rubber insulators or possibly where the manifolds attach to the head. There's an o-ring between those two parts.

If you changed nothing but only cleaned them, it seems reasonable that an air leak is the issue. Check with carb cleaner or propane gas as it's running for a change in RPM. I like the propane because it doesn't eat paint :)

Did you remove the slide needles or do anything to necessitate a sync?


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Yes I did sync them and then rechecked my sync a day later because of this issue. I didn't remove the manifolds. It smells rich at idle. I will check the boots, but I was using the #$%* old clamps before and now am using new hose clamps.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2017, 06:40:23 AM »
Is this the set for the bike with modified pipes?

What if your set the float level and things are a little off for the mods?

Offline uksparky

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2017, 07:09:45 AM »
Did you pull out the idle jets when you had the bowls off, it will cause poor idle...you should use the clear hose check to see the height of the fuel in the bowl should be 3mm below the gasket








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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 08:09:40 AM »
If the spark advancer isn't sticking...
Recheck the spark timing.
If that is all good, then it is back to mixture.

It's supposed to idle on the rich side.  So one or more cylinders is too lean just when the throttle is return to idle position.  An air leak could certainly cause this.

The 77-78 stock exhaust was higher pressure than any aftermarket.  This helped to settle the engine back to idle speed without a lot of mixture enrichment.  This was EPA influence in the drive to reduce idle emissions. 

Anyway, a low pressure pipe changeover makes the 77-78 550 run leaner across the whole throttle range, and hotter, too.  Returning to idle, which should be over rich on theses bikes, would take a tad longer to stabilize and cause the hanging you describe.
If you can't find any problems mentioned above, you may have open the ims more to gain back idle enrichment.  Corroborating a lean mixture diagnosis, would be snap throttle operation.  A too lean mixture won't allow 1/2 throttle snap under load from idle rpm without engine wheeze/stumble.

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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 08:31:58 AM »


Yeah it has great snap acceleration from any point.

Yes cow, both of my bikes have pretty free flowing exhausts.

I did have the idle jets out to clean them. If it were a jetting issue it wouldn't have run well before. I have stock idle jets and always have.

I'm going to try unscrewing the screws another half turn each.


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2017, 09:19:44 AM »
Before you do that, I would check for air leaks where the manifolds meet the head. Easy check and it'll give you piece of mind. If you do need new ones, they're the same size as the ones for the tappet covers.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2017, 11:26:34 AM »
Before you do that, I would check for air leaks where the manifolds meet the head. Easy check and it'll give you piece of mind. If you do need new ones, they're the same size as the ones for the tappet covers.


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Alright, will do.
Thanks.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 03:51:12 AM »

I checked for air leaks and everything is sealed. I tried adjusting the idle screws out, but that didn't do anything. On my way home the engine started to make a lot of noise and I noticed a significant loss of power up top. Like to the point of having to downshift to keep up cruising on the highway at 70. The timing chain sounds like a chainsaw. I put he sync gauges on and everything is out of whack now. Time to rip it apart. Just in time for riding season.


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« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 03:53:11 AM by Lostboy Steve »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 11:52:19 AM »
I hope your timing chain tensioner and guide are in good shape.  Lest they cause things to skip a beat and blow like bloo did 😓.

The motor sounded like an old typewriter when that happened.  The loss of power was like hitting a wall.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 12:33:35 PM »
I hope your timing chain tensioner and guide are in good shape.  Lest they cause things to skip a beat and blow like bloo did .

The motor sounded like an old typewriter when that happened.  The loss of power was like hitting a wall.

Basically what happened. I've been waiting for it as it started to make a little sound a few weeks ago but yesterday it just got Loud as hell out of nowhere. I've only got 5k on a new top end but I reused the chain and tensioner which only had 5k on them. It wasn't like hitting a wall and down low it still felt ok, but on the highway on the way home last night I couldn't maintain 70mph in 5th which usually I can accelerate from 70 in 5th. Then when I went to hook up the gauges everything was in sync but read in late valve timing. I'm assuming it loosened up and slipped a tooth or something.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 02:14:22 PM »

Yuuuuuuup.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 02:57:54 PM »
Nice song selection  ;D

Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 

Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2017, 04:19:40 PM »
Nice song selection  ;D

Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 

Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!
lol it's not the sprocket. It's the chain slack. The tensioner isn't tensioning.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2017, 04:30:53 PM »
Nice song selection  ;D
Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 
Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!
lol it's not the sprocket. It's the chain slack. The tensioner isn't tensioning.

Fark!  There isn't much to the tensioner mechanism.  A post with a few gear teeth.  Limited range of motion yadayadayada.  Was it kosher during the install?

Did you check the cam sprocket for wear?

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2017, 04:54:41 PM »
Nice song selection  ;D
Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 
Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!
lol it's not the sprocket. It's the chain slack. The tensioner isn't tensioning.

Fark!  There isn't much to the tensioner mechanism.  A post with a few gear teeth.  Limited range of motion yadayadayada.  Was it kosher during the install?

Did you check the cam sprocket for wear?

I haven't yet checked anything further. It was originally ok 3 or 4 years ago when I initially put it all back together and checked the timing. Like I said the noise started feint, and all of the sudden yesterday got real loud so I'm sure that's when it loosened up or let go or whatever it's doing. I'll pull the cam sometime this week and check out the tensioner. Maybe check the chain for stretching, if there is even a way to do so. Anyway, like Lloyd said, my timing was acting like a sticking advancer and that's why the idle was hanging. It was probably just a coincidence that this all happened after a carb servicing. It's my bad that I didn't check the timing yesterday, but I was trying to get it on the road for today. Which ended up me cancelling the ride for obvious reasons.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2017, 06:09:40 AM »
Nice song selection  ;D
Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 
Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!
lol it's not the sprocket. It's the chain slack. The tensioner isn't tensioning.

Fark!  There isn't much to the tensioner mechanism.  A post with a few gear teeth.  Limited range of motion yadayadayada.  Was it kosher during the install?

Did you check the cam sprocket for wear?
Hey cow where's that link to the tensioner that you posted elsewhere?


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2017, 09:12:46 AM »
Nice song selection  ;D
Are you still lined up on the tdc marks? 
Guess I'll be using loctite on my cam sprocket installs from now on!
lol it's not the sprocket. It's the chain slack. The tensioner isn't tensioning.

Fark!  There isn't much to the tensioner mechanism.  A post with a few gear teeth.  Limited range of motion yadayadayada.  Was it kosher during the install?

Did you check the cam sprocket for wear?
Hey cow where's that link to the tensioner that you posted elsewhere?
Moo ;D

www.4into1.com has the tensioner bows.  Guides too iirc.

There was/is an nos tensioner assembly for 250-sum bucks on Ebay.  Good deals on the bows and guides sometimes too.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2017, 05:38:33 PM »
Alright. Here's what I got.









How does this look?


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2017, 05:48:06 PM »
Also can someone verify that this is #$%*ed?





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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2017, 06:00:02 PM »
Cam has lost a fair amount of its bearing surface.

That tensioner tho.  Hard to say.  The adjuster stud wasn't very stable when you tried to work the mechanism.
Since you have it that far out, can you just do a video with it on the bench and check for proper rotation at the stud?

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2017, 07:14:06 PM »
Cam has lost a fair amount of its bearing surface.

That tensioner tho.  Hard to say.  The adjuster stud wasn't very stable when you tried to work the mechanism.
Since you have it that far out, can you just do a video with it on the bench and check for proper rotation at the stud?
I can't get it out. I have to pull the head. I thought for sure I could get it out without pulling the head but apparently I can't. It's been a while since I've had one of these apart. I know that camshaft worries the #$%* out of me. Idk what to do there. I'll wait for cal to chime in.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2017, 07:16:18 PM »
When in doubt, upgrade!  8)


Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2017, 07:17:31 PM »
When in doubt, upgrade!  8)
Lol oh man... I know but then I have to do valve springs and possibly hard weld rockers... ugh I'm broke dude. I can't be doing this right now.


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