Topic: Help with locating CB550 Exhaust Valve Guides

[TwoTired]

Since this is a pretty resourceful group, I thought I would ask here.
Anyone have a good source for Exhaust valve guides?  P/N is 12023-323-300  Honda code 0317651 according to the Fiche. 
I don't know if that number has been superseded, though.

My 78 CB550 has worn the exhaust valve guides.  Annoyed withe blue exhaust smoke, went in to replace the seals, during which I noticed valve stem wobble only on the exhaust side.  So, the project went to the back burner for when I have time...like in the middle of my move to AZ.   

I asked my MC shop guy to find some guides since he has all the tools needed for the job, and his best source was ebay.  Bought, 4 guides and one was longer by about 1/8" than the other three.  The shorter ones also have a bevel where the seal goes.  The longer one has squared edges.  We think the shorter ones are actually intake guides.  Just can't compare to genuine Honda since they are NLA from Honda.

Anyone have a good source, that does not include shipping from Europe?  Seems Germany has a stockpile.   But, we already have three that are suspicious, and shipping costs are higher than part cost.

Thanks!

[Duanob]

Made from unobtanium these days. I got lucky a couple of years ago and got a set from another member here, used but in great shape. I think they get all bought up because so many people fcuk up putting the cam cover on and not only bend valve but shatter the guides as well. That's what one of my PO's did.

I'll check my big box of parts and see if there is one lying around but don't hold your breath. I got rid of a lot of old parts a while ago.

[calj737]

TT - I've used the Kibblewhites and had excellent results with them. They are shipped to you ready to be installed, no honing required. You can obtain them from dynoman.net rather easily:

Scroll down-

http://dynoman.net/engine/cam-followers.html

DP VALVE GUIDESValve Guides for Honda CB550 at Dynoman
   


 For CB500/550
     Ampco 45, the best material
     available for guides!
     Pre-honed, ready to install
     (Intake and exhaust are the same guides)
     Manufactured in the USA by
     KPMI for Dynoman

     $139.90 for set of (
     $79.95 for set of (4)

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

+1 -- the OEM ones are difficult to come by.  The Kibblewhite ones price out to about $15-16 each.

[Stev-o]

I believe this ebay seller may have some NOS guides, but is in process of a move, so there may be a delay in response or ordering...


http://stores.ebay.com/Nippon-Dream-Machines?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[grcamna2]

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[TwoTired]

TT - I've used the Kibblewhites and had excellent results with them. They are shipped to you ready to be installed, no honing required.

I want to reuse my old valves.  If they aren't honed or reamed to fit, how would they know what clearance is correct for used parts?  Or, do they expect one to buy their valve sets, too?

Anyway, I'm leary of "race parts", just because of the ideology involved.  Race engines are routinely overhauled and aren't expected to go great distances, leading to frequent replacement/attention.

Can you, or anyone, attest to the durability of these aftermarket guides?

No doubt they will work fine on initial installation.  What about after 30-50K miles?


Yes I know, the stock ones didn't last that long in this particular bike.  I reckon the P.O. didn't use the proper oil to cope with the higher temps the 78 model endures.   But, the guides have lasted on all the others I have.

I just want to know what to expect, and make a conscious trade off if required.

Cheers,

[calj737]

TT - I think your "objection" to these aftermarket guides would be consistent with stock guides. Will new guides fit used valves? Probably as well as aftermarket as they are teamed based upon the same original spec.

As for durability, I haven't put 30-50k miles on them, but they are designed to withstand the stress of much higher demand motors so that imbues a confidence that metallurgically they can withstand a 38 bhp motor to me.

That's the extent of my advice 

[TwoTired]

TT - I think your "objection" to these aftermarket guides would be consistent with stock guides. Will new guides fit used valves?

My "shop guy" was a Honda mechanic in the 70s.  Then started his own shop. And, in fact, bought the Honda shop's tools when they closed doors a few years ago.
He told me the stock guides had to be reemed to accept the valves beening used, as they are undersize as stocked. He has the tools for this.

I probably am being too picky with this, as the bike will likely outlive me with whatever guides get installed.

Cheers,

[MRieck]

The OEM intake guides are shorter but work on the exhaust side......I have done it many, many times. If the guides are shot the valve faces have been beat up from excessive movement. I would replace the valves as you need a valve job after replacing the guides. The Kibblewhite 550 valves are good. Do not grind the OEM valve faces. You need the valve job because the valve center changes with the new guides. Also....I'd use the Kibblewhite Viton guide seals over the OEM pieces.

[754]

Ampco 45 is tougher, lees prone to  getting stuck when hot.
 I used them in a hopped up CB 350..
 I sold and installed many Rowe Ampco 45 guides in street harleys, they work good.

One note about reaming, even if they are pre fit, they often close up from the install tool if its not under cut. However Ampco 45 can be unkind to reamers that were made for stock guides. A lot of engine shops use carbide reamers. So just be aware.

[TwoTired]

The OEM intake guides are shorter but work on the exhaust side......I have done it many, many times. If the guides are shot the valve faces have been beat up from excessive movement. I would replace the valves as you need a valve job after replacing the guides. The Kibblewhite 550 valves are good. Do not grind the OEM valve faces. You need the valve job because the valve center changes with the new guides. Also....I'd use the Kibblewhite Viton guide seals over the OEM pieces.

Thanks for the info .
I didn't budget for new valves.  And, forgot about the surface hardening of the valve faces.  I did know about regrinding the valve seats.

This may end up being the most expensive 550 I own. 

[TwoTired]

Ampco 45 is tougher, lees prone to  getting stuck when hot.

Are you saying they are tougher than the stock guides?
  Do you know what the material differences are?

Cheers,

[754]

Cast will work with stock valves but not stainless valves.
When guys have the putting cover on issues the stock guides crack or break chunks off, bronze would probably bend with the guide.
 Cast iron is generally soft, with high machinability.
Bronze does not cut as easy, and tries to resist cutting, that is why uts harder to ream.
 Check if Kibblewhite has them.

[TwoTired]

Is it possible to examine/determine if my original valves are "beat up" and can't be reused?

My thoughts:
The bike is in one piece now, and will actually run well, if I put the cylinder cover back on.  One piece machine is way easier to move to AZ.
Head off means exhaust, carbs and other bits are scattered about with ample opportunity for damage and loss of little bits.

Starting to consider just selling the bike off as is, and putting my energy elsewhere.  Hate to see this nice stocker mis-mashed into yet another specialty purpose cafe racer.  The exhaust is pretty well preserved what with the oil smoke at idle.


Bouncing ideas off the forum.  Someone out there has a brilliant "answer", right?   

[grcamna2]

Is it possible to examine/determine if my original valves are "beat up" and can't be reused?

My thoughts:
The bike is in one piece now, and will actually run well, if I put the cylinder cover back on.  One piece machine is way easier to move to AZ.
Head off means exhaust, carbs and other bits are scattered about with ample opportunity for damage and loss of little bits.

Starting to consider just selling the bike off as is, and putting my energy elsewhere.  Hate to see this nice stocker mis-mashed into yet another specialty purpose cafe racer.  The exhaust is pretty well preserved what with the oil smoke at idle.


Bouncing ideas off the forum.  Someone out there has a brilliant "answer", right?   

I suggest taking it to AZ. w/ you TT 

[calj737]

I suggest taking it to AZ. w/ you TT  and fixing it when you unpack.

FTFY.

Lord knows, Lloyd, once you get there you won't have anything to do in the winter months 

[Tews19]

TT, how long have you owned this machine? I remember you were one of the first people to help me out on this site and if memory is correct you have owned this machine forever! Why give up on it if you have all this history with it?

Im with Cal and wait until you move there to work on it. Btw, how is life treating ya?  Congrats on the move as well!

[RAFster122s]

A nice bike is really starting to become harder to find, occurs less frequently.  I would hang onto it and either reassemble it for the move or slather up a good oxidation preventive coating on the parts and gather them all into one crate or container, bagging them up after an oil spray helps.  Then you label that crate to ID it and you can find it when you need to do so...  moving it with head attached even loosely allows you to have the exhaust fitted so you do not have that challenge to add to your moving issues.

I would keep it unless you simply do not need or want another 550.  You did buy it, so you wanted it previously.  Dissassembled it will not sell well or for as much.  I would rather save one from the cafe/brat/tracker hackers who take a great or very good original bike and turn it into a cut up mess that they never finish or that is poorly done.
A nice Restomod or original or restored bike I prefer and I do like many cafe bikes but have no use for trackers and brats.
David

[TwoTired]

TT, how long have you owned this machine? I remember you were one of the first people to help me out on this site and if memory is correct you have owned this machine forever! Why give up on it if you have all this history with it?

Im with Cal and wait until you move there to work on it. Btw, how is life treating ya?  Congrats on the move as well!

I've had it since the early 90's, I think.
I used to see it in the parking lot at work.  Then there was an internal ad asking for help moving it from a tow company.  It had been stolen and stripped of gauges, seat Battery, turn sigs, and most anything that could be removed easily.  The police found it and had a tow company collect it.   I had a truck and offered to help him move it.  Sad to see it in the shape it was in.  I told him it could be put back together, and he was undecided and pretty discouraged about the whole situation, including the "storage fees" the tow company charged him.  I asked to give me a shot if he decided to sell instead of fix.  About a year later he called me and said I could have the remains for $150.  He hadn't done anything with it since parked and was moving.  I bought it and took home another project!  These things find me.  I swear I didn't look for any of them in my collection.
Anyway, I frequented the local yards and eventually found the correct missing pieces to make it whole again, including the correct seat.  Cleaned the carbs, did the brakes, replaced the chain and the rear wheel bearings, and it was a good runner, but it made blue smoke when idling, the exhaust valve guide seals, worn out by the guides.  I still drove it rotation to work and back with the six other running bikes, but it went into storage when other projects found me and I didn't need any mosquito abatement.  Probably have to clean the carbs and brakes again, now.  I moved the Quicksilver fairing to my 76-550F. I do like that fairing.
The 78 was a very nice bike to ride as long as the wind wasn't at your back at stop lights.

I'm going to wait until I hear from my local mechanic to see if/when he can do it or help me do it, as he has the tools to complete the job.  But, it seems likely that I won't get it done before my move to AZ is nearly done.  Maybe I'll bring the head back from AZ to do it here or I'll send it off.  I will miss that shop and the owner.
Still undecided.

Life is good.  So far, my aging issues are better than the alternative of not aging at all.

Cheers,