Author Topic: 1976 CB550F  (Read 17086 times)

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Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2017, 02:58:10 AM »
The K&N is a nice filter.  But, you lose protection from water ingress.  And, it can get muddied up when driving in the rain.  I have one.  It came with a bike that was modded for track-like looks.  He removed the fenders, including the inner fender, on the rear, which allowed street irrigation run off to spit directly onto the filter from the rear tire.  ::)

TT, can that filter not go inside the original airbox where it would be protected?

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2017, 07:58:18 AM »
Is there a way to certain for members on the forum? I though i messaged harisuluv but am not so sure the message went through.


Here is his email...

harisuluv@gmail.com
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline cmoses

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2017, 08:14:42 AM »
I got in touch with him! I was not expecting the price tag to be what it was. Ill have to save some money!

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Offline Smudgemo

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 08:15:50 AM »
Beautiful!   

Be very careful removing those side covers, they are very brittle and easy to crack. I put a dab of grease on em before installation
Quoted for truth.  One point at a time, no smacking them to get them popped in place.

Sweet bike.  I'm partial to the F models.
-Ryan

Thread - How to fix your starter button (for real): http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,163170.0.html

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2017, 08:36:25 AM »
TT, can that filter not go inside the original airbox where it would be protected?
In theory, I suppose so.
Not sure it's practical though.
The K&N unit has a pipe fitting for the engine breather tube.  Cut a hole in the box for that?

The mount surface of the K&N is wide enough to cover the face of the air plenum.  So is the stock airbox.  Therefore, I expect something will need custom modification.

The stock box has an engine breather/ water separator in the bottom, which is far superior than simply feeding the vapors into the intake tract, as the K&N does.

I don't think the K&N filter media has as much surface area as the stock one, (measured just by looking at it).  The only thing you might gain is the washability.  Attractive feature, but a Uni filter insert does that, as well, installed in the stock airbox.

I guess that's why my K&N is in my parts spares collection.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2017, 08:52:28 AM »
yeah ok, from what you say it seems like it's not worth the hassle. the stock paper filter actually flows better than the uni foam filter, i checked this on the dyno. i guess the K&N would also not be better than stock, then. at least not better than a new one. i don't know how the stock one flows with, for example, 10k miles on it. would need to measure that...

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2017, 09:46:07 AM »
I got in touch with him! I was not expecting the price tag to be what it was. Ill have to save some money!

I can relate.

Having the bodies fixed by one of the few people capable is always gonna cost.

Finding an intact set of 069A stamped bodies is a rare thing.  They were a single year production part.  That, and people were often very stupid when storing and disassembling them. 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2017, 09:51:42 AM »
yeah ok, from what you say it seems like it's not worth the hassle. the stock paper filter actually flows better than the uni foam filter, i checked this on the dyno.

Did you report the Dyno results somewhere I missed?

I'd like to see that.  I don't doubt you.  Just want to see the raw data and the magnitudes of difference.  Foam cell size has a big influence.

I expect it was RPM related, regarding flow?  I'd be surprised if it was significant for street driving, as I get 50 MPG using a UNI on my 76, CB550F.


I agree, pretty much all filters flow worse and provide a greater pressure drop after particle collection.  That's why they impact fuel mileage/ engine efficiency.

I read several reports on filter operation from a building HVAC perspective.  It was funny reading how they measured filter pressure drop across the membrane after a certain number of *pounds* of particulates were fed into the ducts, and then calculating system efficiency.

They can actually put sensors in the ducts to determine best time for filter replacement using the pressure drop readings.  This is pretty significant for big buildings in operating energy costs.

I wonder how many pounds of dirt our filters can take?  ;D

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:48 AM »
Finding an intact set of 069A stamped bodies is a rare thing.  They were a single year production part.  That, and people were often very stupid when storing and disassembling them.

They were a single model production part spanning 1975 to 1977 of the F model.

I have examples of all three years.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2017, 10:50:43 AM »
Flatlander and others that have or want the stock airfilter, may want to learn this: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,163071.msg1876691.html#msg1876691
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Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2017, 11:18:12 AM »
here is the dyno chart. i have posted this before.
i may do this comparison again just to confirm, next time i'm on a dyno, as i'm also interested in trying a used vs. new paper filter to see how they compare in terms of flow.



delta, the post you link states "a paper airfilter actually filters better when it gets older and is at its best, just before it clogs up". that makes sense as it lets through less, and only smaller particles. but what's the influence on air flow? i would expect that an older, more clogged up paper filter lets through less air, as well. i haven't seen anything on the effect of that, have you?

Offline cmoses

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #61 on: June 30, 2017, 11:25:08 AM »
I got in touch with him! I was not expecting the price tag to be what it was. Ill have to save some money!

I can relate.

Having the bodies fixed by one of the few people capable is always gonna cost.

Finding an intact set of 069A stamped bodies is a rare thing.  They were a single year production part.  That, and people were often very stupid when storing and disassembling them.
I have received a couple other messages from forum members, hopefully one of those works out. I want to get this thing going but dont have very much in terms of budget right now. I think i need carbs, battery, and master cylinder and she will be ready to roll.

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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #62 on: June 30, 2017, 11:33:34 AM »
Dont forget tires

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #63 on: June 30, 2017, 12:49:49 PM »
Quote
delta, the post you link states "a paper airfilter actually filters better when it gets older and is at its best, just before it clogs up". that makes sense as it lets through less, and only smaller particles. but what's the influence on air flow? i would expect that an older, more clogged up paper filter lets through less air, as well. i haven't seen anything on the effect of that, have you?
Gee, I do not know much about flow, except that back then in their advertisement material K&N made a big thing about it (but so did Dyna about their 36.000 Volts ;)). Anyway, I took a dive in my archives and if you're interested, I can scan K&N's (actually Efka's, who was the importer) 4 page folder for you about the K&N filter program that lists what models were available for what bikes. It's a looong time ago, but I remember only their oval model R 82 (R 83 for the CB550) would have had the benefit of my doubt. Glad I didn't do it, because I would have had a lot more intake noise under my butt.
The standard filter I run, has been in there for I don't know how many years and is still good. My test is simple: at various rpm I remove it to check if rpm changes. So far no changes and if my bike still does 170 km/h on the road (180+ km/h on the Dyno) there's no worry, is there? Now that I've found K&N's old folder again, I read something interesting:
K&N only need to be cleaned when there's on the outside a really thick layer of dirt. Recommended interval for cleaning: 1. road use: every 50.000 - 60.000 km, 2, dusty roads: 30.000 - 40.000 km. [my translation]. I've always been very prudent about the lifetime of the standard paper filter by saying: it does easily 18.000 kms but now having read what K&N says (and after what I've learned from airfilter specialists), I don't see why my standard paper filter element couldn't serve 50.000 km. I have planned to put mine to the test. In a box in the basement I still have several that I can use thereafter. BTW, I've never changed a filter element because it was clogged. I always did it before I went for a holiday, simply because I didn't know how many kms I would ride. The longest holiday ride I did, was over 10.000 kms in six weeks.
I can't understand why people would choose an inferior foam filter that can tear (and it will), needs oil (how much?/how little?) is inferior in its filtering from the start, where a genuine filter, if needed, can be replaced within 12 seconds and this includes opening the seat, removing the tooltray, the cover, the clip etc. and yes I've timed this). The only thing CB550 owners have to watch is that their filter is not fouled by the breatherfilter/separator that's notorious for fouling/wettening airfilters on a wide variety of motorcycles. Shall I scan that K&N folder for you?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 03:37:13 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2017, 01:02:11 PM »
Flatlander, what exhaust system do you have on your bike?

Thanks, for the Dyno post.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2017, 01:18:45 PM »
at the time, it was the stock 4-1 of the 550F.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2017, 01:23:14 PM »
delta, i see no hard evidence at this time that justifies ditching the stock paper filter, at least not for street use. but all these rumours of how great foam and k&n filters are... i'd be interested to find out the truth and might do another test next time, on the dyno.
if you have that old k&n folder: sure, would be nice to see!

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2017, 01:51:47 PM »
I'll scan it for you... tomorrow  :).
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2017, 02:25:39 PM »
harisuluv's work is top notch.  You carburetors will come back functioning like new with all new brass, gaskets, etc.
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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2017, 02:59:29 PM »
harisuluv's work is top notch.  You carburetors will come back functioning like new with all new brass, gaskets, etc.

+1 but believe OP's rack may be beyond repair. 

Sticker shock may have been for the price of a ready-to-go rack.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2017, 04:33:19 PM »
at the time, it was the stock 4-1 of the 550F.

Thanks for the info.

I'll note that my switch to the Uni was in response to my local Honda dealer charging $50-$60 per air filter back in the early 90s.  The Uni was just WAY more economical.  I didn't notice any power change on the butt dyno during my commutes.  I always use very little oil on the foam.  And with 50 mpg, I had no reason to complain.

I will say that my 78 CB550k did not run well with Uni filter. But did with the paper one.  Its my only 550 that wasn't happy with the Uni.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline cmoses

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2017, 04:37:59 PM »
harisuluv's work is top notch.  You carburetors will come back functioning like new with all new brass, gaskets, etc.

+1 but believe OP's rack may be beyond repair. 

Sticker shock may have been for the price of a ready-to-go rack.
Yeah mine are not salvageable. Price was for all new everything. Will keep him in mind but that will have to be down the road a bit. Right now i am working on a set to get in the bike to get it to start.... And go from there.

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1975 CB550 Super Sport

My 1970 CB750 K0 project

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2017, 11:32:50 PM »
at the time, it was the stock 4-1 of the 550F.

Thanks for the info.

I'll note that my switch to the Uni was in response to my local Honda dealer charging $50-$60 per air filter back in the early 90s.  The Uni was just WAY more economical.  I didn't notice any power change on the butt dyno during my commutes.  I always use very little oil on the foam.  And with 50 mpg, I had no reason to complain.

I will say that my 78 CB550k did not run well with Uni filter. But did with the paper one.  Its my only 550 that wasn't happy with the Uni.

Cheers,

interesting observation with the 550k. i should try the uni again on the dyno, now that i made other changes as well, such as replaced exhaust with a 4-4, just to see what i get. i like the idea of a re-usable filter but not if it's as much more restrictive as in my old dyno chart.

that price for an air filter is just crazy. even using coffee filters and changing them daily probably would have been cheaper!

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2017, 12:38:57 AM »
Flatlander, I'd love to see a pic of your 4-4. Not many fit a 4-4 to an F model. The price of a genuine Honda airfilter for a CB550F, F1 or F2 is € 22,50. http://www.japparts.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3365 Here's that K&N folder.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1976 CB550F
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2017, 12:51:43 AM »
The 17210-404-670 (for CB550K models) also seems to be available for € 22.50 (as repro). http://www.japparts.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3083 If no longer available, do a search. Germany used to still have them. CMS has repro's for € 37,50. These are reasonable prices for a filter that lasts incredibly long.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 12:53:19 AM by Deltarider »
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