Author Topic: Harley to buy Ducati?  (Read 6541 times)

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Harley to buy Ducati?
« on: June 29, 2017, 09:25:17 AM »
Any bets on how long it takes Harley to ruin the brand if they do buy it?

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/21/harley-davidson-enters-race-to-buy-italian-rival-ducati.html
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 09:44:29 AM »
The Diablo King, (leather tassels std)   ::)
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mineā€¦"

Offline Eight

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 09:45:27 AM »
 I see no reason to expect or predict the ruin of Ducati should it become part of H-D.
    J.M.O.

Offline MoMo

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,271
  • Ride like you're invisible
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 09:48:00 AM »
I wouldn't foresee any problem, Harley has come a long way. Larry

Offline BomberMann650

  • Holy Cow! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,437
  • Dr. Bovinestein iBa#80333
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 09:56:24 AM »
You know the old phrase; if you can't beat em, buy em. ;D

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,822
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 10:26:41 AM »
Ducati won't be ruined by HD if purchased, the sky is not falling, it won't be the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine).

HD owned both Aermacchi and MV Agusta (if you follow their history it's technically the same company twice), and didn't ruin either of those brands (HD Sold Aermacchi to Cagiva and then later cagiva was renamed MV Agusta).

HD can't crack the sport bike market. Aside from Buell and the XR1200X, they haven't had a competitive sporting motorcycle since the 1970's. Ducati could crack that nut for them by just being ducati and doing what ducati does best. Ducati on the other hand could use the massive amounts of HD money to improve the product quality and CSAT, and shore up their racing program and merchandising distribution.

Ducati wasn't "ruined" by being owned by Cagiva (in fact the product improved), it wasn't ruined by being owned by any private investor group, and VAG didn't ruin them either. Aside from the absolutely #$%*ty way they treat customers post sale, they are a strong brand and getting stronger - HD can make them a juggernaut.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:28:20 AM by Geeto67 »
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 12:48:57 PM »
Tell that to Buell. He might have a story or two to tell.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Bankerdanny

  • Eventually I will be old enough in reality to be
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,623
  • Endeavor to persevere
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 01:02:23 PM »
I wouldn't foresee any problem, Harley has come a long way. Larry

Tell that to Eric Buell.

Harley has consistently demonstrated that it doesn't understand the sport bike market even a little. They would ruin Ducati and end up selling it's diseased remains to someone else to save.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline NewBoots

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 01:07:32 PM »
Harley will make a fortune sell clothes to the upscale bikers.
NewBoots

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 01:12:10 PM »
We will then see DOG.    Ducati Owners Group...

 I think its a really good thing if they buy them out... Its just plain silly,how much energy from both sides goes into slamming the other brand.. Time to just Grow the Fack Up, and enjoy motorcycles...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MikeSimon

  • MotoManiac
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 770
  • Motorcycle Addict
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 01:45:40 PM »
   and then later cagiva was renamed MV Agusta

 

 ??? ??? That's an interesting titbit I haven't heard of. Considering that MV Agusta has been around for quite a while and raced bikes in 50s. They had a 6-cyl racer before Honda did.
1973 CB350F -sold
1974 CB350F -218 orig miles, sold
1976 CB750K - in restoration

Other Hondas:
3 x CBX
CB1100R
GB500
Plus Kawasakis, BMws & Ducatis

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,454
  • Central Texas
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 02:15:39 PM »
I would bet [a little bit of money] it wont happen
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 02:19:44 PM »
We will then see DOG.    Ducati Owners Group...

 I think its a really good thing if they buy them out... Its just plain silly,how much energy from both sides goes into slamming the other brand.. Time to just Grow the Fack Up, and enjoy motorcycles...

I hope they do make Ducati a better brand Frank and I am really not a Harley basher. After reading the trials and tribulations of Buell and his treatment under Harley and the idiotic Harley tax in the 80's did I lose some respect for the company. I still like a few of their bikes but they are crazy expensive for what you get.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,822
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 06:07:57 PM »
We will then see DOG.    Ducati Owners Group...

It already exists, the Desmo owners club or "DOC". They give you a membership when you buy a duc.


 
Quote
I think its a really good thing if they buy them out... Its just plain silly,how much energy from both sides goes into slamming the other brand.. Time to just Grow the Fack Up, and enjoy motorcycles...

This. So much this.
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,418
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 06:17:15 PM »
We will then see DOG.    Ducati Owners Group...

It already exists, the Desmo owners club or "DOC". They give you a membership when you buy a duc.


I got it Frank. ;) HOG, Harley Owners Group.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,418
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 06:21:27 PM »
the idiotic Harley tax in the 80's did I lose some respect for the company.
The tariff the Harley pushed through on Japanese bikes 750cc and up pissed me off. The price of a then new 750 Interceptor jumped $1000 overnight. >:(
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2017, 07:15:46 PM »
At the big rallies, HOG and DOG can have friendly Tug-of-Wars...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,418
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2017, 07:18:25 PM »
Ha!! I think I'd bet on the HOG; more grunt than a DOG. ;D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 07:21:24 PM by scottly »
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline MoMo

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,271
  • Ride like you're invisible
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2017, 08:35:09 PM »
the idiotic Harley tax in the 80's did I lose some respect for the company.
The tariff the Harley pushed through on Japanese bikes 750cc and up pissed me off. The price of a then new 750 Interceptor jumped $1000 overnight. >:(


I think it saved Harley from going out of business as their sales were really hurting until "someone" on Harley's board knew "someone" on Reagan's cabinet and came up with the tariff solution.  I also believe Japanese manufacturers were dumping Harley look-a-likes to drive Harley under.  I'm not a Harley fan either...Larry

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,522
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 01:32:21 AM »
Have not looked but apparently they are pushing a motorcycle tax on all 500cc and under bikes made in European Union...like 100%. AMA is reporting...smacks of false news but it is there on AMA's site...
Congress is caving to Beef Industry and the EU levying heavy tax on American Beef coming there.
If it happens it will bankrupt many bike shop owners and a few brands.
Sounds insane but if it checks out as true it is going to be some insane asylum legislation.

I think after Buell getting messed over by them it could be ugly for any company to get in bed with them...
With their sales numbers are they cash flush enough to buy a company like Ducati?
Their investors whom would benefit from this apparently are looking to cash in...
Mercedes did not stay in bed with Chrysler long...a stupid combo in my opinion.
GM did lots of damage to Lotus Engineering and Lotus Group and how well did Lambo do with Chrysler influence.

Subaru's short partnership with Volvo netted Subaru coming out much smarter on many chassis improvements and design philosophies they have leveraged during and after their split.

Lots of other examples of bad combos that were not old old news.  HD mgmt has not changed enough to help Ducati unless they stay pretty much hands off and let Ducati help them and learn from HD those things they might do well.  Never or rarely turns out that nice...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline 74cb750

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,419
    • old japanese parts and bikes
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2017, 01:45:27 AM »
Have not looked but apparently they are pushing a motorcycle tax on all 500cc and under bikes made in European Union...like 100%. AMA is reporting...smacks of false news but it is there on AMA's site...
Congress is caving to Beef Industry and the EU levying heavy tax on American Beef coming there.
If it happens it will bankrupt many bike shop owners and a few brands.
Sounds insane but if it checks out as true it is going to be some insane asylum legislation.

I think after Buell getting messed over by them it could be ugly for any company to get in bed with them...
With their sales numbers are they cash flush enough to buy a company like Ducati?
Their investors whom would benefit from this apparently are looking to cash in...
Mercedes did not stay in bed with Chrysler long...a stupid combo in my opinion.
GM did lots of damage to Lotus Engineering and Lotus Group and how well did Lambo do with Chrysler influence.

Subaru's short partnership with Volvo netted Subaru coming out much smarter on many chassis improvements and design philosophies they have leveraged during and after their split.

Lots of other examples of bad combos that were not old old news.  HD mgmt has not changed enough to help Ducati unless they stay pretty much hands off and let Ducati help them and learn from HD those things they might do well.  Never or rarely turns out that nice...
hear hear!
Laugh at least once a day.
Life  $ucks, then you die.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
God forces us to live with  non-believers to test our resolve.

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,088
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2017, 02:35:37 AM »
In theory, I like the idea of owning American, but once you look into it, how American is a modern Harley anyway?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,388
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2017, 04:18:49 AM »
Harley has owned several Italian motorcycle companies over the years, folks here shouldn't be concerned that they'll be putting Harley badges on fragile Italian sports bikes, several Italian companies have been regularly bankrupted and then saved over the years by Harley, and now China is also buying their brands, (Benelli, for instance, Bimota went under a few years ago, not sure who owns the brand nowbut I think they're still building bikes in limited numbers) so it's a good thing that HD is willing to invest in what can be a bit of a gamble.

Erik Buell did fantastic work modifying Sportster engines, and Harley owners worldwide have benefited from his hard work with modern sporties that are producing excellent power compared to the pre-Buell bikes. The problem with Buell's own bikes, was that no-one bought them, possibly because it was hard to convince sports bike riders that they should buy a modern sports bike equipped with a 60 year old pushrod engine that only made "moderate" power (for a sports bike) when they could buy a Japanese, German or Italian bike that could run rings around it for similar money or less, and even though he finally dropped the Sportster engine for modern Rotax engines for the last generation of Buell's, aesthetically, they were ugly fcukers, and just didn't sell. If they did, you'd still be able to buy one.

How American is a Harley? Well how British is a Triumph, how German is a BMW, how Italian is a Ducati, or for that matter, now that a lot of "Big Four" components are made in China, how Japanese is any Japanese bike? But then again, how many of you guys drive American cars? If driving a Japanese or European car, or owning an Asian TV, stereo, computer, tools etc don't make you feel any less patriotic, why would you be concerned about whether your Harley was 100% American? If I was at all cynical, I'd think that a tad hypocritical? ;D   
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Eight

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2017, 05:56:17 AM »
  ^  Nicely said.

Thank you.

Offline 72 yellow

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,217
Re: Harley to buy Ducati?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2017, 06:10:59 AM »
+1 to Terry.   ;D