Author Topic: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.  (Read 2055 times)

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Offline GardenGnome

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Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« on: July 11, 2017, 08:50:38 PM »
So I am out of ideas at this point on trying to find a solid state reg/rec, one that will work with a lithium ion battery (antigravity 8cell). I have contacted Ricks Motorsport Electrics they sent me a link to an OEM style reg/rec part number 10-100. Yesterday I spoke to tech support over at Antigravity batteries the gentleman seemed to think that the reg/rec set point from Ricks was a little high at 14.87DCV, but he did recommend checking out cycleelectricinc.com. Upon visiting their site I was unable to find what I needed. Lastly, I have also contacted the guys at Revival Cycles they replied with this

"The charging system on your bike is a field excited system and that means there are two types of reg/recs for that style of charging system. There is a type A and a type B, the type A have one of the field coil brushes connected to +12V and then the regulator controls the field coil with the ground connection, and type B has one filed coil brush connected to ground, and the regulator controls the power supply to the coil. I have looked up a diagram for your bike, but this detail is not clear. It appears to be a type B in which case you would need a ricks motorsport electrics 10-504 reg/rec. But, my recollection is that the hondas were typically type A charging systems which use the ricks part number 10-503.

If you can find a more detailed diagram I can take another look, but this information is probably well discussed on the forums. Alternatively you could test the setup on your bike, if both wires for the field coil are isolated from ground, then you could connect it to work with either style. But if you check and one of the field coil wires has a path to ground then you will need to go with the Type B.

The reg/rec just needs to keep the voltage between 6V and 15V and that isn't too difficult. But its the battery that you choose that really affects the reg/rec requirements. If you want to use a modern LiFePO4 battery then the only ones we've found that work with the new style batteries are the reg/rec's from Ricks.

If you are using standard lead acid batteries, then you can use any reg/rec that is specified for your bike, and you shouldn't have any problems."

While that's a very detailed and precise reply, I'm not that savvy when it comes to this kind of lingo. Essentially I'm more lost now than I was when I started my quest for a new solid state reg/rec. it would be great if you fine folks could shed some light on the subject. Basically where can I buy what I need? This is the last bit I need to complete my electric part of the rebuild. Thank you for taking time to read and help.


« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:53:44 PM by GardenGnome »
If I've learned anything about building a motorcycle, it's check and re-check your work before you put it all back together. Although you do gain more experience by doing it twice.

Offline scottly

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 09:08:27 PM »
What bike do you have?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 04:37:54 AM »
Think he has a 550F.

I have used two reg/recs from Rick's. One for my 550 build and another for my 650 build. They both work fine with my Shorai LFX14A2.

Offline lrutt

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 04:38:57 AM »
I use a Ricks RR on my CB550 with a Shorai battery. Has been working just fine.
06 Harley Sporster 1200C, 06 Triumph Scrambler, 01 Ducati Chromo 900, 01 Honda XR650L, 94 Harley Heritage, 88 Honda Hawk GT, 84 Yamaha Virago 1000, 78 Honda 750K w/sidecar, 77 Moto Guzzi Lemans 850, 76 Honda CB750K, 73 Norton 850, 73 Honda Z50, 70 & 65 Honda Trail 90, 70 & 71 Triumph 650s, 65 Honda 305 Dream, 81 Honda 70 Passport, 70 Suzuki T250II, 71 Yamaha 360 RT1B, 77 BMW R75/7, 75 Honda CB550K, 70 Honda CT70

Offline calj737

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 04:43:13 AM »
Ricks 10-100 if you have a 550/650/750 SOHC
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Bodi

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 04:53:48 AM »
Your bike has what they call "Type B" - one field coil wire directly grounded. Honda switched to "Type A" with the DOHC4 bikes, and current HM bikes mostly have PM alternators with a shunt regulator - field controlled alternators get heavy when you need enough output for a fuel pump and ECM... modern permanent magnets are astoundingly powerful and lightweight.
You can easily rewire your alternator to be the other "type" but sticking with a stock harness is easiest (and less confusing to anyone working on the bike).
The Rick's 10-100 has wire terminal connectors and should just plug into your stock harness (with a bit of fiddling). The 10-504 is the same unit with bare wires, as far as I can tell.

Offline strynboen

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    • http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=q94gd1qd2d5ism5kmc73f9oda3&/topic,60973.0.html
Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 06:24:05 AM »
yes its easy to thange.the stator magenet is isolated from frame..so its just to thange the 2 vires..so the ground is the kontroling vire..and the positive is konstant hot.. but it can give some problems for others mecanics to service..as it not are a Honda standart on this bikes
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:26:46 AM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline scottly

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 09:03:50 PM »
I spoke to tech support over at Antigravity batteries the gentleman seemed to think that the reg/rec set point from Ricks was a little high at 14.87DCV,
There is an adjustable solid state regulator available from Oregon Motorsports (?). It seems I recall several issues with Rick's regs and Lithium ion batteries?
Dave and lrutt, the Shorai is a Lithium Iron battery, which is a slightly different animal. The recommended charging voltage is 13.6-14.4 volts, with an absolute limit of 15.2 volts. 
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Offline GardenGnome

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 09:30:47 PM »
Long day, makes for a late reply. I have a 77 550F. Thanks for the info. Scottly can you tell me more about this reg/rec from Oregon motor sports please? I also have heard that the lithium ion batteries and the reg/recs from Ricks gave issues.

I guess just for the sake of knowing, why is that it is so difficult to find a reg/rec that will work with these lithium ion batteries and these old bikes? You'd think there'd be someone who'd want to capitalize on this...
If I've learned anything about building a motorcycle, it's check and re-check your work before you put it all back together. Although you do gain more experience by doing it twice.

Offline scottly

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 09:56:01 PM »
I think this is the part? (I don't have one myself; just passing on the info)
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/vregulators.html
Lithium ion batteries seem to be a bit fussy when being charged; look at all the fires associated with them in e-cigs, lap-tops, and hover-boards. What does Anti-gravity recommend for the optimum voltage? 
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Offline GardenGnome

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Re: Lithium ion batteries and solid state reg/rec question.
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 06:42:45 PM »
For optimum voltage I was told between 13 and 15. With 15 on the high end and with caution.
If I've learned anything about building a motorcycle, it's check and re-check your work before you put it all back together. Although you do gain more experience by doing it twice.