Author Topic: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler  (Read 3690 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 09:02:53 AM »
An oilcooler without a thermostat is a no-no. On a standard CB500/550 I don't see a need for a cooler. It's an aircooled engine. When in doubt, measure first.

What is the basis for a thermostat being REQUIRED? I have seen many bikes with oil coolers and no thermostat. Plenty of street bikes have gone for decades without one.
Were any of these production model equipped?  You know, where engineers designed for it, rather than faith reliant persons making mods for appearance sake?
Over the decades, how many of these example bikes were instrumented to show oil temps?
Has there ever been a group of people that belived in an assumption without factual reason?

Not sure if you are blasting me or Deltarider. There are many bikes out there with oil coolers, that were not fitted factory, yet very few have thermostats. I can probably count on one hand the number of aftermarket coolers with thermostats I have encountered. On the other hand, how many aftermarket oil cooler jobs have measurably hurt the engine? I would wager almost none unless riding in very cold temps and even then probably very few. I was simply pointing out that a thermostat is in no way a must have item with an oil cooler, aftermarket or not.
I'm not blasting anybody.  Asking questions to test your faith/belief.  Maybe you have something to teach me.
I do suspect you have no measureable data to show an oil cooler addition helps or hurts as well as no data for whether an oil cooler thermostat helps or hurts.
What I asked is if there were production model examples which included an oil cooler and did not have a thermostat, as I can't think of any.  What do you suppose the reason for that is?

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 09:37:59 AM »
After driving in Phoenix traffic in a cage a fair amount a few years ago, I wouldn't do it on a bike unless it was a cold day in Hell, err, Phoenix. Seems like a biker dies every week. There have also been lots of wrong-way drivers recently for some unknown reason?  The drivers in Albuquerque weren't much better the last time I was there...

Well yeah, there's that too. I got used to driving and riding in Phoenix, which means 10+mph over the speed limit and on a bike being even more aware of everything around you. Had my only accident on a bike in 20 years of riding in Phoenix -- drunk, underage driver made an illegal left turn into a liquor store after I locked eyes with him. Just tapped his rear quarter, laid the bike down, and jumped off and landed standing up. He took off for a Circle K to buy gum and was gone when the cop showed up. Big trouble... But yeah, keep your eyes and ears open for sure.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 10:08:08 AM by carnivorous chicken »

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 09:56:34 AM »
If there is a thermostat it is part of the housing at the engine or a separate part between the case and the cooler since what it does is bypass the line out to the cooler and instead simply routes the oil directly back into the engine.
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Offline strynboen

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 10:08:35 AM »
it can be a bypass line betveen in and autput on the cooler..but it need a oil flow to get a idea of the engine temp.(.to aktivate the termostate)
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2017, 11:56:10 AM »
I have an old Mocal thermostat, the cylindrical one  http://mocalusa.com/thermos.htm
They write this:
MOCAL thermostats are designed to prevent engine oil from flowing through the oil cooler until the desired temperature is reached. Prolonged use of engines in conditions that oil cannot reach optimum working temperatures will cause sludge formation and crankcase oil dilution, leading to excessive wear especially in the cylinder bores. Thermostats combat this by regulating oil flow to accelerate warm up. This in turn reduces drag, helping to yield optimum engine efficiency and performance. The proven design and reliability of the MOCAL thermostat make them the choice of automotive and marine racing teams world wide. They are also well suited for aviation applications.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2017, 01:22:30 PM »
Exactly Pewee. BTW, it brings me back to the days my dad bought his first Peugeot 404. http://www.kodefouw.nl/p404groen.html It's one of my all time favourites. Never had a more comfortable seat behind the wheel. I remember in those days Peugeot proudly advertised with its patented 'selfthinking fan'. The fan behind the radiator would not be on before the right temperature was reached. Nowadays every car has this, in those days it was a nouveauté. The idea behind it was/is the same: have the engine warmed up as quick as possible.
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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2017, 01:33:33 PM »
My MGB-GT, which is a hatchback, also has an oil cooler, which came from the factory and doesn't include a thermostat.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline strynboen

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2017, 03:09:45 AM »
Exactly Pewee. BTW, it brings me back to the days my dad bought his first Peugeot 404. http://www.kodefouw.nl/p404groen.html It's one of my all time favourites. Never had a more comfortable seat behind the wheel. I remember in those days Peugeot proudly advertised with its patented 'selfthinking fan'. The fan behind the radiator would not be on before the right temperature was reached. Nowadays every car has this, in those days it was a nouveauté. The idea behind it was/is the same: have the engine warmed up as quick as possible.

yes and save the 4 hk the fan steals from the total autput..
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2017, 11:50:54 AM »
Interesting topic to discuss and share experiences! :)
I have checked my bike's oil temp in the oil tank with a dipstick with thermometer. The red area starts at 120C (248F)
Below interesting links that supports the thought about minimum temp of 100C.

https://www.velox-motorsports.com/single-post/2016/07/10/Oil-Cooling-A-Deeper-Look
http://www.calverst.com/technical-info/lubrication-temperature-critical/

Car or Motorcycle engines should not differ since its the oil that suffer of higher temps, right?

So what temperature can you run in your car/engine?
That is quite a loaded question and near impossible to answer without a lot of testing.  We can give it our best shot, though.  Most passenger cars are perfectly fine with oil temps up to 240-260 degrees F *utilizing the OEM recommended oil weight*, with some being designed to handle temps up to 315 Degrees F and higher!


Optimum performance, for both economy and power, is achieved at temperatures around 100-107 degrees C (210-225 degrees F). Up to 120 degrees C (250 degrees F) is OK if a decent oil is used, but getting a little warm.

I do not need to connect an oil cooler. Max temp I have seen now with the billet block with no air vents  between 1-2, 3-4 is 110C (230F). Mostly around 105C (221F).

If living more south  riding longer periods in ambient temp of closer to 30C (86F) I guess the temp should be around 120C (248F).

I did not have a temp gauge back in the 80's when I had a toring down to Jugoslavia with my RC 836 with CR 10.5:1. I remember taht I could not keep my boots against the engine, very hot. Amb temp was around 27-32C.

But riding the bike in southern USA amb temp between 30-40C or more, traffic jam that must crank up the engine/oil temperature!
Fairing that block the air cooling the engine can not be good either in a very hot summer.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 12:04:37 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »
I rode my punched out cammed up Harley Fat Boy with removable shield through Arizona on I-8 and I-10 in August one year. ~115. Didn't realize that until I stopped. Sonna#$%*!! I learned my lesson! I didn't think I was THAT stupid.... Anyway prior to leaving I added an oil cooler and used synthetic oil which should handle the heat better. The Harley ran hot anyway with normal temps. I want to remember the oil temp got to 250 or so. It did better than I did. The pool was hot and all the shower water was hot. No way to cool down. The cheap motels don't keep the rooms cooled either. The AC got it down to 95 by 6am. Did I mention I learned my lesson  ::) 
Arizona has hot chicks too, right? Legal brothels according to a TV show I watched. Something about how many people lived in the town...
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2017, 12:17:28 PM »
I'm planning to run my 674cc-CB650 with a cooler, but my motor is running larger pistons at higher compression and with a performance cam, and I am in the SoCal heat.  I have had a few instances in summer traffic where my 836cc-750 and even my stock 550 had smoke from the carburetors and the bike was feeling as hot as Hades.  So with a hot street motor and higher ambient temps, I don't think I'll have issues of oil being too cold.  I would reconsider that, of course, if I was running a stock motor in cold weather.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2017, 12:51:14 PM »
Arizona has hot chicks too, right?
Yes! Although some gross examples of plastic surgery enhanced and materialistic in places like Scottsdale!

Legal brothels according to a TV show I watched. Something about how many people lived in the town...

No! You're thinking of Nevada.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2017, 01:17:07 PM »
Quote
No! You're thinking of Nevada.
Yep, the Chicken Ranch. I remember having seen a documentary about it made by Nick Broomfield.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Oil Cooler vs no oil cooler
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2017, 01:20:15 PM »
Quote
No! You're thinking of Nevada.
Yep, the Chicken Ranch. I remember having seen a documentary about it made by Nick Broomfield.
This Chicken has no ranch, but there is a Chicken Ranch, a Bunny Ranch, and likely other ranches named after cute and not so cute animals. The llama ranch? The platypus ranch? The emu ranch?