Topic: timing again

[evinrude7]

took my timing plate off as per TT's instructions and placed it back on the bosses.  did notice slight shifting so i stuck a .004" shim between the plate and bottom boss.  no more movement.  when i went to check timing i'm still over extended on how far i can get the plate to turn.  still quite a few degrees off on being timed correctly. 

checked and adjusted points to .016".

any help appreciated. 

[madmtnmotors]

Try setting the points to the narrow end of the tolerance (.012) and see if that brings your timing marks within range.

[evinrude7]

i have them set at 14 now.  i adjusted the points this time with the plate turned to about center.  could go an equal amount clockwise or counter.  somehow this seemed to help.  the plate is no longer turned all the way in one direction and i have adjustability in either direction.  the .004" shim i tried to use didn't help any setting it on all three bosses to keep the plate from moving.  i sort of understand what that does but it didn't do me any good.  not sure what i did differently in the past that resulted in a fully rotated plate.  i have yet to verify with a light but will tomorrow.  i did notice that at idle, 1200 rpm, my tach needle doesn't bounce any more. 

i ended up using these instructions:

Wait now  ... let's be sure were all on the same page... above you say that on setting the points gap to 14 thou. you are rotating the main plate to try to get the correct gap ?? Completely incorrect , if so .
When setting the points gap, the main ( or sub ) plate does not move.... let's just start over. 

Please do the following easy steps to time your bike....
1. Turn the points cam until 'F 1-4 ' appears in the 'window'. Ignore the points, plate screws etc.
Now, continue to turn the points cam 90 deg. past this 'F 1-4' mark. Stop here.
2. Loosen the single point screw ( has an adjustment slot under it ) and with a straightedge screwdriver move the point faces away or towards each other until a 14 thou. feeler gauge just slips thru'. Tighten screw.

Repeat step 1. except using 'F 2-3 ' marks.
Repeat step 2. except using "F2-3' points.

Now turn the points cam ( always clockwise ) to the 'F 1-4 '. Stop here. This is the exact place the 1-4 points need to be just opening and 'fire'..... Loosen the 3 main plate screws and turn the main plate left or right to achieve the points opening. You will need a test light ( with ign. 'on' ) or an ohm-meter ( ign. off ) to see the exact moment the points open. Tighten the 3 main plate screws.

Turn the points cam to the 'F 2-3 ' mark. loosen the 2 sub-plate screws at the 2-3 points and turn the plate to the left or right to achieve points opening..... tighten screws. Done static timing 

[TwoTired]

took my timing plate off as per TT's instructions and placed it back on the bosses.  did notice slight shifting so i stuck a .004" shim between the plate and bottom boss.  no more movement.  when i went to check timing i'm still over extended on how far i can get the plate to turn.  still quite a few degrees off on being timed correctly. 

checked and adjusted points to .016".

any help appreciated.

Put the shim at a different boss location and try again.
What is the brand and age of your points?

[PeWe]

Easier to adjust point gap with a dwell meter, set it to minimum and you can turn the plate as needed. Too much gap and the plate will bottom out before ignition is properly set. Same with the 2-3 point plate.
23 degrees when meter is set to 8 cyl. Adjust when engine is idling around 1500 rpm.

[evinrude7]

took my timing plate off as per TT's instructions and placed it back on the bosses.  did notice slight shifting so i stuck a .004" shim between the plate and bottom boss.  no more movement.  when i went to check timing i'm still over extended on how far i can get the plate to turn.  still quite a few degrees off on being timed correctly. 

checked and adjusted points to .016".

any help appreciated.

Put the shim at a different boss location and try again.
What is the brand and age of your points?

tried the shim at all three bosses.  didn't have any effect on improving ability to set timing.  the shim was .004".  i think that's the tolerance that honda allowed.  tec points.  do not know age but they have lots of metal left as points surfaces. 

[evinrude7]

Easier to adjust point gap with a dwell meter, set it to minimum and you can turn the plate as needed. Too much gap and the plate will bottom out before ignition is properly set. Same with the 2-3 point plate.
23 degrees when meter is set to 8 cyl. Adjust when engine is idling around 1500 rpm.

pewe i'm using this light https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/40000-40999/40963.PDF.  where should i have the degrees knob set on the back of the light? 

[Deltarider]

where should i have the degrees knob set on the back of the light?

0^o, by all means! Keep it simple! Our Honda's have F marks, both at idle as well as advanced, so we don't need to adjust our timing light. BTW, dwell degrees are measured with a different device. Dwell degrees just tell how many degrees of the available 360 (= one revolution) the points remain closed.
 

[TwoTired]

took my timing plate off as per TT's instructions and placed it back on the bosses.  did notice slight shifting so i stuck a .004" shim between the plate and bottom boss.  no more movement.  when i went to check timing i'm still over extended on how far i can get the plate to turn.  still quite a few degrees off on being timed correctly. 

checked and adjusted points to .016".

any help appreciated.

Put the shim at a different boss location and try again.
What is the brand and age of your points?

tried the shim at all three bosses.  didn't have any effect on improving ability to set timing.  The shim was .004".  i think that's the tolerance that honda allowed.  tec points.  do not know age but they have lots of metal left as points surfaces.

The sequence of adjust is important, as that .004 either adds or subtracts from the  .016 points setting depending on where you place the shim.
When you move the shim's position, you have to readjust the gap first before resetting the timing. 

I asked about point age to get a feel for rubbing block wear, not contact wear.

[evinrude7]

took my timing plate off as per TT's instructions and placed it back on the bosses.  did notice slight shifting so i stuck a .004" shim between the plate and bottom boss.  no more movement.  when i went to check timing i'm still over extended on how far i can get the plate to turn.  still quite a few degrees off on being timed correctly. 

checked and adjusted points to .016".

any help appreciated.

Put the shim at a different boss location and try again.
What is the brand and age of your points?

tried the shim at all three bosses.  didn't have any effect on improving ability to set timing.  The shim was .004".  i think that's the tolerance that honda allowed.  tec points.  do not know age but they have lots of metal left as points surfaces.

The sequence of adjust is important, as that .004 either adds or subtracts from the  .016 points setting depending on where you place the shim.
When you move the shim's position, you have to readjust the gap first before resetting the timing. 

I asked about point age to get a feel for rubbing block wear, not contact wear.

How would I know if rubbing block wear is extensive?

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

[TwoTired]

Compare it to a known good one.

Can you measure the one you have?

[PeWe]

Maybe no help..my experiences with points is that the ignition can not be set due to the grooves on plate seems to not be long enough. After fiddling around with it for a while it suddenly worked. Must be the play of the plate and case that is up here with shims. I have lately proved for myself that min gap of points make it much easier too. Gap will increase by wear so min gap is the way.
This reminds about to check ignition again...

[evinrude7]

Maybe no help..my experiences with points is that the ignition can not be set due to the grooves on plate seems to not be long enough. After fiddling around with it for a while it suddenly worked. Must be the play of the plate and case that is up here with shims. I have lately proved for myself that min gap of points make it much easier too. Gap will increase by wear so min gap is the way.
This reminds about to check ignition again...

Agreed

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

[Airborne 82nd]

Easier to adjust point gap with a dwell meter, set it to minimum and you can turn the plate as needed. Too much gap and the plate will bottom out before ignition is properly set. Same with the 2-3 point plate.
23 degrees when meter is set to 8 cyl. Adjust when engine is idling around 1500 rpm.

https://www.howacarworks.com/ignition-system/checking-the-dwell-angle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/272782860131?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=272782860131&rmvSB=true

[jonda500]

Maybe no help..my experiences with points is that the ignition can not be set due to the grooves on plate seems to not be long enough. After fiddling around with it for a while it suddenly worked. Must be the play of the plate and case that is up here with shims. I have lately proved for myself that min gap of points make it much easier too. Gap will DECREASE by wear so MAX gap is the way.
This reminds about to check ignition again...

Agreed

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

^^^ ?? just had to correct that...

When I have run out of groove I learned not to obsess about the how or why, I simply filed the slots longer till I could achieve perfect timing.
John

[evinrude7]

Maybe no help..my experiences with points is that the ignition can not be set due to the grooves on plate seems to not be long enough. After fiddling around with it for a while it suddenly worked. Must be the play of the plate and case that is up here with shims. I have lately proved for myself that min gap of points make it much easier too. Gap will DECREASE by wear so MAX gap is the way.
This reminds about to check ignition again...

Agreed

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

^^^ ?? just had to correct that...

When I have run out of groove I learned not to obsess about the how or why, I simply filed the slots longer till I could achieve perfect timing.
John

i was just about there but i knew i could not trust the work i had done previously.  kept at it and it turns out the plate is not needing to be fully rotated to one side.  setting the points with the plate positioned in the middle helped as did a lesser gap value. 

edit: checked with a timing light.  was right on the money.