Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210458 times)

doug_id · « **Reply #300 on:** February 28, 2007, 05:12:32 PM »

Pulled the cam cover off tonight.......pretty easy. Lots of pics.....chime in if you spot any issues.....thx!

Keeping everything straight for installing the new cover!!

doug_id · « **Reply #301 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:09:46 PM »

Quote from: Wykydtron on February 28, 2007, 06:07:24 PM

Id say your in good shape Doug. Judging by position the tappet adjusters, you've experimented with why the rockers need to be held up on installation? But I do have some bad news, I think I cracked my valve cover in the EXACT same place! Your in for some #$%* man! I think Ill go have a look...now where did I put that valve cover...

LOL!! Are we twins seperated at birth?......your not 42 and bald are you??

TwoTired · « **Reply #302 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:15:25 PM »

Looks like at least one of your cam followers is galling. I suppose it could be a reflection, though.
If it is, look carefully at the corresponding cam lobe for abnormal wear. A worn cam lobe will transfer wear to a smooth follower.

Also, if you check that rocker's shaft bore in the cam cover, you may find it elongated and the shaft can move up and down. If so, that's the source of your wear issue and why I recommended the 77-78 cover and the cam to match, as it should have better wear patterns, too.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #303 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:19:42 PM »

Quote from: Wykydtron on February 28, 2007, 06:17:14 PM

with a full head of thick golden blonde hair

Oh man I feel soooooooo sorry for you!

doug_id · « **Reply #304 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:25:20 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 28, 2007, 06:15:25 PM

Looks like at least one of your cam followers is galling. I suppose it could be a reflection, though.
If it is, look carefully at the corresponding cam lobe for abnormal wear. A worn cam lobe will transfer wear to a smooth follower.

Also, if you check that rocker's shaft bore in the cam cover, you may find it elongated and the shaft can move up and down. If so, that's the source of your wear issue and why I recommended the 77-78 cover and the cam to match, as it should have better wear patterns, too.

Cheers,

Woah......you threw some terminology at me....hehe

This is the first engine I have ever opened up.

I think the cam lobes are the rounded protruding parts of the cam shaft. I will have to study up on cam followers though.

I think I understood the part about the shaft bore though.

So I should check to see if it is out of round?

Anything else I should do/check now that I have taken it apart this far?

Thx,
Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #305 on:** February 28, 2007, 07:13:03 PM »

Quote

I think the cam lobes are the rounded protruding parts of the cam shaft.

Yep, that why they call it a bump stick.

The followers are part of the rocker that ride on the bump, comprising a wearing, mated, surface. It is best to keep the mated pair relationship. New parts or parts that are unfamiliar with each other have to wear in to make a comfortable, long lasting, relationship. This process involves the removal of metal. The less removal of metal, the longer the parts last. So, keep the rocker associated with it's corresponding cam lobe.

When new cams and followers are first put into service, they usually have a super friction modifier in order to "gentle-ise" the break in process. So it makes a smooth bearing surface, instead of galling or chattering. It is also used to mate cams and followers that have not worn in together before, so the galling effect is avoided when re-wearing in going to occur. Flat tappet cams in autos require this.

The friction modifier is usually a moly base lube. But, moly also makes the friction parts of a wet clutch permanently lose their friction. So, I've been afraid to use it in a motorcycle, so I use non-moly wheel bearing grease on the lobes for initial wear in. I've heard that a little moly (cam lube) on the lobes won't make the clutch slip. But, I don't want to contaminate my friction disks. So, I use the wheel grease and slather with engine oil upon assembly.

Is this understandable?

Uh, time for dinner. be back latter...
Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #306 on:** February 28, 2007, 07:42:30 PM »

Thx TT,

Yes that helps quite a bit. So Galling = a rough/er surface on a cam follower?

I should check for this on the cam followers that are on the new cover I got off e-bay? If there is galling on one or more followers should they be replaced with new ones? Can you mix old and new followers together?

Then coat the cam lobes and followers with a thin(?) layer of non-moly wheel bearing grease upon assembly? I imagine it would also be helpful to keep the revs down for a few hundred miles.....a mini break-in period? Also I suspect it would be a good idea to do an earlier oil change after running with the new cover/followers for a while?

Thx again this is interesting stuff

Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #307 on:** February 28, 2007, 07:56:12 PM »

Just went out to the garage to check on the followers on my old cam cover. I wiped the oil off them and ran my thumb over the faces. They all looked/felt really smooth to me.......But then I don't know if this galling is something that can be detected be feel?

According to the odometer the bike had less than 8k miles on it.....for what that's worth anyway.

Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #308 on:** February 28, 2007, 11:47:15 PM »

If you are going to use a body part to test for surface finish, in this case use your thumbnail.
In general, the motor looks pretty good inside. It's probably been maintained well for it 8K life.
I've posted below, the areas to scruitinize from your own pictures. I think you've got a pic of the same rocker from two angles and it is showing extra stress on one side. The red marks I added should tell you where to examine closely. Look for irregularities on the cam lobe where these rockers rub against. None of your pics show this camshaft detail, I think.

If you think you might just polish these. Don't. The rocker cam follower faces are surface hardened to minimize wear. Polishing or regrinding requires restoration of this surface hardening for long life. Use one of the rockers from your replacement cover in place of the galled ones.

Don't lose sleep over this. I've seen far worse wear last thousands of miles in the 550 with little degradation in performance. However, as those cam bumps wear down, the cylinder gulps less air and makes less power as time goes on.

I once took out a chevy V8 cam that completely rounded a lobe off the stick. It ran just like a V7, but less smoothly.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #309 on:** March 01, 2007, 06:12:30 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 28, 2007, 11:47:15 PM

If you are going to use a body part to test for surface finish, in this case use your thumbnail.

Thx TT........for a second there I thought you were going to say to use my tounge.

I will try the thumbnail test today.

Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #310 on:** March 01, 2007, 10:05:05 AM »

What you do with your body parts in the privacy of your own home is your business, of course. We all know how intimate it can be having a close association with our machines. Body parts more sensitive than our fingers are few in numbers. However, if you find that the thumbnail does not give satisfaction, you could always try your fingernail.

Had you feeling pretty exposed there for a while, huh?

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #311 on:** March 01, 2007, 10:27:20 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on March 01, 2007, 10:05:05 AM

What you do with your body parts in the privacy of your own home is your business, of course. We all know how intimate it can be having a close association with our machines. Body parts more sensitive than our fingers are few in numbers. However, if you find that the thumbnail does not give satisfaction, you could always try your fingernail.

Had you feeling pretty exposed there for a while, huh?

Cheers,

LMAO!!! I have been spending a lot of time with my bike

CrisPDuk · « **Reply #312 on:** March 01, 2007, 05:40:13 PM »

Quote from: doug_id on February 28, 2007, 06:19:38 AM

Amazing! within a few mins of deciding to get a new cam cover and wanting one from a 77-78 model someone posts one on e-bay!

I hope it works out $:-\$

Doug,

If you end up buying this and decide you don't want the head, give me a shout, I want a '77/8 head, but don't need the rocker cover

Having just said that, what are the chances I've just jinxed myself and will crack my cover when I open my motor up

doug_id · « **Reply #313 on:** March 01, 2007, 05:56:35 PM »

Sure, I will probably want to part with it at some point....just hanging onto things for now until I get the bike running on the street without issues....I hope soon

CrisPDuk · « **Reply #314 on:** March 01, 2007, 10:51:06 PM »

My CB's mothballed in my Garage back home in the UK at the minute Wykyd. I'm out here in sunny Thailand on a year's secondment with work

When I left it was running like a dream, but I want another head so I can send it to Mike Rieck for a bit of 'prettifying'. That way when I get home in May I can keep using the bike next summer whilst Mike does the head's in his own time

Then my current thinking is that I can get stuck into tearing it down next Winter, then I will attempt to achieve with my build something close to the terrifyingly high newbie standard Doug here has set

I'm already in touch with Benjie too, Doug. I'm definitely having a set of them there peashooters, they look awsome. Hopefully with a few personal variations though so we don't end up with bike-a-likes

Not that there will be much danger of that, unless you have a brainstorm and respray your tank & seat bright yellow

doug_id · « **Reply #315 on:** March 02, 2007, 06:07:12 AM »

Cool Chris......be sure to post some pics of your pipes!

I am hoping to get the new cam cover in today or tomorrow. Then have to see what kind of shape it is in and if usable clean and paint it.

Doug

bill440cars · « **Reply #316 on:** March 02, 2007, 09:58:41 AM »

Hey Doug,
You sure have stirred things up around here, with that bike of yours.

Hope things smooth
out for you so that you can get that bike out on the road and get some good times out of all your
efforts.

Now you've got CrisP going with that exhaust (which is very cool looking, in my opinion)
and that has me wanting to see his build also. You take care and I'll catch you later on, Bill

CrisPDuk · « **Reply #317 on:** March 02, 2007, 08:05:08 PM »

Quote from: bill440cars on March 02, 2007, 09:58:41 AM

Hey Doug,
You sure have stirred things up around here, with that bike of yours. Hope things smooth
out for you so that you can get that bike out on the road and get some good times out of all your
efforts. Now you've got CrisP going with that exhaust (which is very cool looking, in my opinion)
and that has me wanting to see his build also. You take care and I'll catch you later on, Bill

I hope you are a patient guy Bill, my build isn't even going to start this year, and there's no way I am going to even get close to Doug's standard if I try and do it at his pace

For example I started one of my car projects 9 years ago, and it still ain't finished

Reading the project list in your sig though, you probably know all about that sort of thing

I was thinking about the BCR pipes in a distant sort of way before Doug started this thread, but it's the way they look on this bike that has sealed the deal for me

So my wife is fully aware that it's all his fault I'm about to spend 2 months worth of her shoe budget on stupid bits of shiny metal

dr chip · « **Reply #318 on:** March 03, 2007, 07:32:10 PM »

Read the whole post: great bike! The agony and ectasy!!

Am building an xs650 cafe. Bought a 550 to start with but too nice to chop!

ANYONE: My question: the mini taillights on the Ducati early in the thread: where are they from? dealing with the same problems of a tail light/licennse plat/clearance!

Keep up the good, no, great work!

doug_id · « **Reply #319 on:** March 03, 2007, 07:54:14 PM »

Quote from: dr chip on March 03, 2007, 07:32:10 PM

Read the whole post: great bike! The agony and ectasy!!

Am building an xs650 cafe. Bought a 550 to start with but too nice to chop!

ANYONE: My question: the mini taillights on the Ducati early in the thread: where are they from? dealing with the same problems of a tail light/licennse plat/clearance!

Keep up the good, no, great work!

Lol.....that is funny Dr Chip....not sure about agony but there has been some frustration......even that has been "fun" though......learning a lot. Thx for the compliment. I think it is really gonna be a nice bike when I get it dialed in.

The new cam cover arrived in the mail today. As far as I can tell the cam followers look good. I have it soaking in some diluted left over yamaha carb cleaner/water mixture.....to take the old paint and grime off the outside. Will give it a good scrubbing tomorrow and then paint and bake it in my glass kiln. I want that paint CURED before I put the new cover on the bike!

Will post some pics tomorrow.

Can't help you much on the ducati tail light.

Doug

flipprboi · « **Reply #320 on:** March 04, 2007, 04:44:45 AM »

Hey doug,

Benjie here. Havent hear anything from in the past week and was wondering how was the project coming along. Somebody emailed me and send me a link to your cafe racer project thread, so i decided to drop a line. I must say i am very impressed at what you are doing and how fellow memebers of this forum are helping out. Sucks about the camcover problems and now the rocker arm. Just one advice though when you are putting the cam cover back to the engine, tighen them according to factory sequence and torque. If you dont, you'll end up cracking the newly replaced cam cover or worse, BEND the valves. If that happens, you'll end up taking the head out. Anyway, goodluck and take your time. And make sure that you havent overlook anything. And most of all, have fun! keep in touch!

Benjie

flipprboi · « **Reply #321 on:** March 04, 2007, 05:13:52 AM »

Doug,

benjie here again.I forgot to tell you that when you replace the camcover, reuse the old cam followers that came with your engine and make sure you put them in the same location as it did. Each cam follower has different wear, and each cam follower is already settled to a specific cam lobe. Anyway, goodluck and have fun!

Benjie

ohh yeah if you could take videos of your first ride, and post it at you tube. take care!

doug_id · « **Reply #322 on:** March 04, 2007, 05:48:21 AM »

Hey Benjie,

Good to see you here.

Yes, this board has a lot of knowldegable/helpful people. No way I could have or would have done this without all the help I have received.

Yep, just getting the new cover ready to go. Thx for the tips on the followers and tightening order, etc. Gawd if this one cracked while putting it on I would probably freak out

It looks like the followers are held in by a rod that can be unscrewed and pulled out and each outside corner? I will break the manual out and check on that.

Sure thing on the video.

Have a good one,
Doug

bill440cars · « **Reply #323 on:** March 04, 2007, 08:21:53 AM »

Hey CrisP, You're talking to another one that will be taking some time to do a build. Mine will call for a lot of patience also. LOL with yours.

dr. chip, I'd be one who'd like to see what you've got going on that XS650 build also, if you don't mind?

Hey Benjie, That's cool that you are checking to see how a customers progress is coming. That says a lot about you.

Hey there Doug, You keep up the good work, we're all patiently waiting for you to be able to get that "Joy Ride" that you so greatly deserve.

Later on, Bill

doug_id · « **Reply #324 on:** March 04, 2007, 09:41:05 AM »

Got the new cam cover scrubbed/cleaned up ready for painting. What are thoughts on replacing the cam followers that came with the cover with the ones from my old cover? Can the ones from my pre-1977 cover be put in the 77 cover? Looks like you just screw in a 6mm bolt and then pull out the follower shafts? Any tricks to that? I have rubbed all my fingernails(

) across the surface of the followers on the new and old and all feel very smooth. What is with the 4 new bolts under the breather cover on the 77 cam cover? 3 of those bolts are missing the nut so I will have to find replacements for those.

Thx for any help you can give on this.....really want to make the best decision on what to do here. $:-\$

Here are two pics of the right and left cam followers on the new 77 cam cover.....

Here is the pic of the outside after scrubbing....

News:

Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210458 times)

dr chip