Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210448 times)

doug_id · « **Reply #450 on:** March 16, 2007, 12:17:32 PM »

the killer combo seems to be the headlight with the brake light. I have tried both together before but always just the brake for a few seconds.....it seems after about 10 seconds of holding the brake light on that overwhelms the fuse. I am using the longer 7.5 amp fuses from the auto parts store as they ran out at the internet place I was buying the stock ones from.

Leaving headlight off and going for a ride now!!!!

TwoTired · « **Reply #451 on:** March 16, 2007, 01:12:47 PM »

Quote

Just after the end of this video my bike up and dies in the driveway...no electrics....looks the same as when my fuses were blowing in the garage.

Quote

Yep, my 7amp fuse blew when I pulled into the driveway

Have you confused the fuse assignments?
There are five positions. From left to right on the fuse holder is; Spare-|-tail-|- headlight-|- Main-|-Spare.

Your bike shouldn't die if you blow the headlight fuse. It WILL die if you blow the main fuse. The main fuse is 15 amps and routinely passes 9-11 amps when there is high electrical demand. This will blow a 7 amp fuse, if installed there, when all the lights are going.
Check to see if you put a 7 amp fuse in the main position. IF so, stick a 15 amp fuse in there.

Do find the proper length fuses for those clips. Oversize fuses don't make full contact and can lead to fuse clip heating and MELTING of the fuse element near the end caps and possible destruction of the fuse block.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #452 on:** March 16, 2007, 01:38:53 PM »

Hi TT,

I only have positions for 3 fuses....I think it goes 5 - 15 - 7.

Yes, I know the longer fuses are not ideal....I can't find anyone local who carries the short ones and so far only one place on the internet and they are out of the 7's. Primarily because of me

I think the 7 amp is the only one I have ever blown on the bike and I have blown PLENTY of those....doh!

Thx,
Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #453 on:** March 16, 2007, 01:40:49 PM »

Quote from: Wykydtron on March 16, 2007, 01:11:01 PM

Man! That exhaust sounds really sweet, epecially when it idles down. Nice, hearty grumble to it. I know you have to take it easy for now, but you HAVE to do one where we can hear the exhuast when you are giving her all she's got, bet it sounds great. I wish I could hear the bike in person, the top end does sound better in this vid but the ticking still sounds louder than it should to me, but this time it sounded more like exhuast than tappets. Mabey the speaker on the camera makes it sound worse than it is, seems like it really isolates different sounds, probably because of the mono sound recording. Yeah I think you will be more comfortable and ballanced with rear sets. Looks good going down the road though! Good man wearing the helmet. Still cant tell if that little giggle came from the boy or you.

Thx man,

Yeah, I think the video cam does pick up and isolate the sound more depending on what your pointing it at. I noticed it sounded worse on the vid than it did when I was filming it.

Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #454 on:** March 16, 2007, 01:52:27 PM »

Quote from: doug_id on March 16, 2007, 01:38:53 PM

Hi TT,

I only have positions for 3 fuses....I think it goes 5 - 15 - 7.

Yes, I know the longer fuses are not ideal....I can't find anyone local who carries the short ones and so far only one place on the internet and they are out of the 7's. Primarily because of me

I think the 7 amp is the only one I have ever blown on the bike and I have blown PLENTY of those....doh!

OK, you're right, the older 75 K model has three positions. 5 , 7, and 15 from left to right. On my 75 the numbers are cast into the plastic under the fuse.

Point is, you're putting a 7 amp fuse in the main position and that is the most likley cause of the your fuse blowing problem as of now.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #455 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:14:03 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on March 16, 2007, 01:52:27 PM

Quote from: doug_id on March 16, 2007, 01:38:53 PM
Hi TT,

I only have positions for 3 fuses....I think it goes 5 - 15 - 7.

Yes, I know the longer fuses are not ideal....I can't find anyone local who carries the short ones and so far only one place on the internet and they are out of the 7's. Primarily because of me

I think the 7 amp is the only one I have ever blown on the bike and I have blown PLENTY of those....doh!

OK, you're right, the older 75 K model has three positions. 5 , 7, and 15 from left to right. On my 75 the numbers are cast into the plastic under the fuse.

Point is, you're putting a 7 amp fuse in the main position and that is the most likley cause of the your fuse blowing problem as of now.

Cheers,

hi TT,

your saying 5, 7 15?? the bike came to me with 5 - 15 - 7.....Oh my.

That could explain a lot.......anyway to verify that?

Thx,
Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #456 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:20:25 PM »

Oh wow...you are right....it is 5 - 7 - 15 .......I blame the PO!!!!!! yes I do!

Well congrats TT on getting the wiring to work with the wrong fuses..... even more amazing....lol.

Thx!
Doug

WJL75 · « **Reply #457 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:22:07 PM »

Doug,

My fuses came in the same order as yours. The Clymers had it in a different order on my 76K. I might be wrong, but I beleive it is labled in the fuse box area on the bike.

doug_id · « **Reply #458 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:25:42 PM »

Quote from: WJL75 on March 16, 2007, 02:22:07 PM

Doug,

My fuses came in the same order as yours. The Clymers had it in a different order on my 76K. I might be wrong, but I beleive it is labled in the fuse box area on the bike.

Hi WJ,

Yea....I just checked the fuse box...under each fuse it says what should be there.....mine are 5-7-15.......sigh....I bet I have gone thru about 50 7amp fuses trying to get the electrics working.....doh

TwoTired · « **Reply #459 on:** March 16, 2007, 02:43:00 PM »

Hey Doug,

I finally got your new MPEG downloaded. Looks fun.

Bike looks and sounds great. Loud, but great. I'm glad I don't live in your neighborhood, though, 'cause I think I'd hate those effing motorcycle b*stards as much as I hate those Effing A$$holes with their car 1000 watt bass audio systems and their drive by sound assault tactics. Not that I'm opinionated, mind you.

Perhaps that's why you're so afraid of the throttle? Don't know if I could resist rapping the pipes with the video camera on.

I had four into two on my 74 for many years, sounded quite similar but not quite as, I dunno, "bottled" as yours. I'm sure the neighbors hated it. But, I don't think it was much louder than the stock 4 into 4 I put on it eventually. Even that is quite a bit louder than my stock 4 into 1 on my F models. I can rev the F model well above 5K in the "hood" without fists getting shaken at me!

I still think you have exhaust header leaks.

Very nice bike you have. I'm too old for that riding position beyond "round the block", though.

Hope you have lot's o' fun with it. When you get out of the residential area don't be ginger with that throttle. Honestly, the engine *really* likes it. Wait till you hear those pipes a 10000 RPM. But, your grin may no longer fit inside the helmet during and slightly after the twist.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #460 on:** March 16, 2007, 04:23:24 PM »

Hi TT,

Yea I didn't get on it to much in the video...neighbors and really not sure front wheel not going to fall off or something like that

Just got back from 25 mile ride.....most things working good. Ran real nice as far as I can tell. Ride is very firm but seems well damped. Front fork seals are toast so more on my to do list. Rearsets I think will definitely improve riding postion...very folded over feeling now. They should be here next week sometime.

Yea, have to reseat the exhaust headers...have to wait for new gaskets before I do that.

New tach seems to only register about 1/2 of the real RPM...not a big deal but somewhat annoying.

Good news is all the electrics are working fine now and I can ride with the headlight on....lol.

Tires are brand new so went carefully around all the curves/corners.....more aggressive riding after they get scrubbed in.

Snapped a few pics after I got back.....

You can see large sized pics here.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/doug_goodenough/

Spikeybike · « **Reply #461 on:** March 16, 2007, 04:31:29 PM »

gotta say this again,....
whata sweet ride, very clean

kine8282 · « **Reply #462 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:10:03 PM »

Doug,

Bike looks and sounds fantastic. Just thought I'd share with you a little advice, watch out for rain or goo from the road coming off the back tire. You and I have the same seat and man...it doesnt rain here in Los Angeles too much but there are lots of crap on the road and some of that stuff gets on the back of the lid and jacket.

Otherwise...love what you did with the tank and the Norton style Honda decal.

doug_id · « **Reply #463 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:29:35 PM »

Quote from: kine8282 on March 16, 2007, 05:10:03 PM

Doug,

Bike looks and sounds fantastic. Just thought I'd share with you a little advice, watch out for rain or goo from the road coming off the back tire. You and I have the same seat and man...it doesnt rain here in Los Angeles too much but there are lots of crap on the road and some of that stuff gets on the back of the lid and jacket.

Otherwise...love what you did with the tank and the Norton style Honda decal.

Thx Kine,

Hehe.....I got a mud flap out back don't you know.....my lic plate

. I have to say I don't think it looks to bad back there all things considered and hey it just might catch some of that road debri.

doug_id · « **Reply #464 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:53:04 PM »

Quote from: spikeybike on March 16, 2007, 04:31:29 PM

gotta say this again,....
whata sweet ride, very clean

thx Spikey!

edbikerii · « **Reply #465 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:20:18 PM »

Beautiful! I'm inspired to head out to the garage right now and work on my 550! Too bad it is 20' out there.

I love the way your tank and seat came out. Great work, and excellent, subtle taste.

Do you plan on getting rearsets? I've found that my 550 is pretty uncomfortable with the clip-ons, but I keep hearing that rearsets will improve that.

Now I remember that my bike was VERY comfortable with stock handlebar, but I LOVE the aggressive and sporty look with the new clip-ons. I'm debating whether to invest more in some rearsets just to find out that I'm still uncomfortable. Also, mine is a '77 550K, and I don't see any Raask application for that year/model. I don't want to go on a wild goose chase, and then end up going back to stock so I can ride.

Anybody got any feedback on rearsets for a '77 CB550K? Is there some way to achieve a good balance between the aggressive/sporty look and comfort?

doug_id · « **Reply #466 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:26:16 PM »

Thx

Yeah, was surprised that I would ever think rearsets would be more comfortable than the stock pegs...but when you get leaned over that far having your feet forwards as well makes it more uncomfortable. I think the rearsets moving my feet back a bit will straighten out my spine some and thus be more comfortable. Have to see. I ordered a set from Omar http://www.rearsets.info/rs4.html They are pricey bastages....

.....but what the heck I have gone this far so just keep on going.

I will post a ride report and some pics once I get them installed.

Doug

Spikeybike · « **Reply #467 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:13:25 PM »

Quote from: doug_id on March 16, 2007, 06:26:16 PM

bastages.... .....but what the heck I have gone this far so just keep on going.

man.. if i had a dollar every time i said that

doug_id · « **Reply #468 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:30:19 PM »

hmmmmm ok......#3 look the best the others looks totally different........thoughts?

You think this is a float adjustment issue or??

pablo78cb550 · « **Reply #469 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:58:39 PM »

1 2 4 look like their running rich.

TwoTired · « **Reply #470 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:56:22 PM »

To me, the most disturbing thing about the plugs is that they aren't all the same condition.
There is clearly something dissimilar with # 3 that you will have to discover, even though it's looking like the best running cylinder. I'd probably scrutinize the slow jet in the carb of #3. See if the orifice is clear and supplying the same amount of fuel as in the other carbs. When they all behave the same, you can then make identical adjustments to all in order to bring the combustion conditions into a reliable state.

What is the carb set up number stamped on the carbs? 022A?
What settings did you chose for your carbs?
Are there Honda parts in the carbs? Slide needles? Emulsion tubes?
Are the float heights the same?
Are the idle air bleed screws settings the same and where are they set?
Does no. 3 intake runner have an air leak?
Are your air filters over oiled except for number 3?

You can expect cyls 1,2, & 4 to shortly stop working as the carbon on the ceramic insulator will soon be an easier path for the spark than the gap.

Right now, though, you could rotate the other plugs through #3 cyl. to clean them off!

If you don't have a sand blaster to clean the insulator soot, I just recently tried PJ's tip for cleaning with a propane torch. It worked pretty well, even though a bit worrisome seeing glowing red electrodes. Recheck/adjust the gap afterwards.
Otherwise, plan on getting another set of plugs to recover from dead cylinders.

Did you ever do a compression check to see if the compression is even across the bank?

You didn't really think you were done working on the bike did you?

We have an adage in the engineering community. "The last 10% of the project takes 90% of the time."

You may think you just changed parts on the bike. The ones that weren't purely cosmetic need re-engineering. And, the adage applies.

How far away is your test track?

I hope you consider knowledge as part of the end result of the project. I personally, believe that is more valuable an asset than the finished bike. But, I suppose some will disagree.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #471 on:** March 17, 2007, 07:11:56 AM »

Good Morning TT,

I have to say I was a little disturbed at what I saw when I pulled the plugs

When I have been working on it in the garage and it was just idling all the carbs were sooted up like that pretty evenly. I figured they would clean up some when I got out on the open road and the engine reached operating temp and the revs went higher. I didn't do a true plug chop on these just pulled into driveway and quickly turned off ignition (no kill switch)....not sure how much difference that would make. I went on two rides yesterday...after returning from the 1st ride (about 7 miles) both 3 and 4 looked like #3 does now and 1, 2 looked sooty. Not sure on cleaning them off....Most of the black stuff wipes off pretty easily with a rag. It is not baked on.

Ok....on to your questions

What is the carb set up number stamped on the carbs? 022A? Hmmm....went out and looked and don't see any #'s. Where are they stamped?

What settings did you chose for your carbs? Did not change any settings...as far as I know they still have the factory settings

Are there Honda parts in the carbs? Slide needles? Emulsion tubes? I think they are original.....I didn't do anything with top part of the carbs except the whole bank spent two days soaking in yamaha carb cleaner solutions

Are the float heights the same? Within a MM or two yes. Tried to set them all at 22mm per the honda manual

Are the idle air bleed screws settings the same and where are they set? Dang....I was going to check those when I pulled the carbs the last time and I forgot....so dunno

Does no. 3 intake runner have an air leak? Not sure what an intake runner is?

Are your air filters over oiled except for number 3? I tried to oil them up all the same.....I used a spray on oil. Never used uni's before so not sure what qualifies for over oiling....I don't have any dripping from them. Maybe I should clean with gas and try again? Even if they are somewhat over oiled would they still not be letting more air in than the stock filter?

If you don't have a sand blaster to clean the insulator soot, I just recently tried PJ's tip for cleaning with a propane torch. It worked pretty well, even though a bit worrisome seeing glowing red electrodes. Recheck/adjust the gap afterwards.
Otherwise, plan on getting another set of plugs to recover from dead cylinders. They seem to clean up pretty good just being wiped down with a rag but if not I will try the propane torch.

Did you ever do a compression check to see if the compression is even across the bank? No, I haven't done that test.

You didn't really think you were done working on the bike did you? Nope, I expected I would have to tinker with the carbs what with the new filters and pipes. Just hope that it is the carbs and not an engine needing overhaul....lol....I do want to ride it more this year.

We have an adage in the engineering community. "The last 10% of the project takes 90% of the time." I am beginning to realize this.

How far away is your test track? not far....nice country road within a mile of our house. I do need to replace my fork seals asap....they are leaking bad. The forks that originally came with the bike had coroded uppers (part covered by the HL brackets) but they seals were good.....would it work to use those seals on my new forks? Can you change seals with the upper part of the forks left on the bike?

I hope you consider knowledge as part of the end result of the project. I personally, believe that is more valuable an asset than the finished bike. But, I suppose some will disagree. Yep, learning is one of the reasons why I started this project....just hope I don't blow a memory bank!

Thx!
Doug

Spikeybike · « **Reply #472 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:29:25 AM »

to change the fork seals you have to remove the whole fork and totaly disassemble the whole thing, the hard part is getting the lower leg off of the tube, my advice for this is BUY THE TOOL (i did it the hard way and if i ever have to do it again im bying the tool

this is a rough explanation so bear w/ me hear (im better at showing than explaining):

when you get the fork off the bike (loosen both clamps and slide it out) first take the top bolt off ,drain all the oil,
then(again this is the hard way) with no oil in the fork reassemble it, and tighten the bolt
get a buddy to help w/ this part : turn the fork upside down , and compress it by hand, (work those muscles) have buddy turn the bolt on the bottom of fork untill comes apart , sounds wierd but it worked for me. like i said buy the tool i've never used it and i dont even know what it looks like, but its gotta be easyer then that

doug_id · « **Reply #473 on:** March 17, 2007, 11:54:47 AM »

Quote from: spikeybike on March 17, 2007, 09:29:25 AM

to change the fork seals you have to remove the whole fork and totaly disassemble the whole thing, the hard part is getting the lower leg off of the tube, my advice for this is BUY THE TOOL (i did it the hard way and if i ever have to do it again im bying the tool

this is a rough explanation so bear w/ me hear (im better at showing than explaining):

when you get the fork off the bike (loosen both clamps and slide it out) first take the top bolt off ,drain all the oil,
then(again this is the hard way) with no oil in the fork reassemble it, and tighten the bolt
get a buddy to help w/ this part : turn the fork upside down , and compress it by hand, (work those muscles) have buddy turn the bolt on the bottom of fork untill comes apart , sounds wierd but it worked for me. like i said buy the tool i've never used it and i dont even know what it looks like, but its gotta be easyer then that

Thx for the info Spikey,

Sounds like I will look into buying the tool....I am sure it will be almost free

Other than the seals themselves are there any associated parts I will need to do this right?

Dang the weather is sooooooo sweet here this weekend. I would luv to be out riding it....but looking down and seeing a stream of oil running down each fork is no good.....

TwoTired · « **Reply #474 on:** March 17, 2007, 12:12:10 PM »

Hi Doug,
I've got errands to run today, so forgive me if my responses are curt.

Quote from: doug_id on March 17, 2007, 07:11:56 AM

Good Morning TT,

I have to say I was a little disturbed at what I saw when I pulled the plugs When I have been working on it in the garage and it was just idling all the carbs were sooted up like that pretty evenly. I figured they would clean up some when I got out on the open road and the engine reached operating temp and the revs went higher. I didn't do a true plug chop on these just pulled into driveway and quickly turned off ignition (no kill switch)....not sure how much difference that would make. I went on two rides yesterday...after returning from the 1st ride (about 7 miles) both 3 and 4 looked like #3 does now and 1, 2 looked sooty. Not sure on cleaning them off....Most of the black stuff wipes off pretty easily with a rag. It is not baked on.

Good that it's not baked, if you can make the insulators white, you should be good to go. I think there is something about high humidity that bakes that stuff on...not sure, though.

What is the carb set up number stamped on the carbs? 022A? Hmmm....went out and looked and don't see any #'s. Where are they stamped?
Each carb body has it stamped on the mount flange, top right.

What settings did you chose for your carbs? Did not change any settings...as far as I know they still have the factory settings
Any chance they were changed before you got the bike?

Are there Honda parts in the carbs? Slide needles? Emulsion tubes? I think they are original.....I didn't do anything with top part of the carbs except the whole bank spent two days soaking in yamaha carb cleaner solutions
Did you not remove and clean the emulsion tubes?

Are the float heights the same? Within a MM or two yes. Tried to set them all at 22mm per the honda manual
cool

Are the idle air bleed screws settings the same and where are they set? Dang....I was going to check those when I pulled the carbs the last time and I forgot....so dunno

didn't you remove those for your carb soak?

Does no. 3 intake runner have an air leak? Not sure what an intake runner is?
The intake runner is that tube that goes between head and carb. The rubber "insulator" should make a seal but can leak air, upsetting the fine job the carb does at metering fuel to air.

Are your air filters over oiled except for number 3? I tried to oil them up all the same.....I used a spray on oil. Never used uni's before so not sure what qualifies for over oiling....I don't have any dripping from them. Maybe I should clean with gas and try again? Even if they are somewhat over oiled would they still not be letting more air in than the stock filter?
The foam element provides a "tortured path" for the inlet air. Heavier particles can't make direction changes as fast as the air molecules and crash into the foam structure. If the structure is coated with oil, the heavy particles stick to the foam structure. The oil coating also narrows the passageways. Lots of oil can block some of the passageways further restricting air flow. It is possible to over oil the foam to cause restrictive behavior beyond what a stock air filter provides. Since you have four filters, you should make an effort to evenly oil each one. Added air restriction deepen the barometric pressure difference between the carb throats and the air surrounding the bike. The pressure difference is what draws fuel through the fuel metering orifices in the carb. More restriction = richer fuel ratio = sooty plugs.

If you don't have a sand blaster to clean the insulator soot, I just recently tried PJ's tip for cleaning with a propane torch. It worked pretty well, even though a bit worrisome seeing glowing red electrodes. Recheck/adjust the gap afterwards.
Otherwise, plan on getting another set of plugs to recover from dead cylinders. They seem to clean up pretty good just being wiped down with a rag but if not I will try the propane torch.
If the electrode insulators are white/ light tan you should be good to go. But, when you get close to your final carb adjustments, a fresh set will help with your inevitable plug chops.

Did you ever do a compression check to see if the compression is even across the bank? No, I haven't done that test.
You won't know if you needed that test till after it's done.

How far away is your test track? not far....nice country road within a mile of our house. I do need to replace my fork seals asap....they are leaking bad. The forks that originally came with the bike had corroded uppers (part covered by the HL brackets) but they seals were good.....would it work to use those seals on my new forks? Can you change seals with the upper part of the forks left on the bike?

Buy new seals. Removal usually destroys them. Yes, you can leave the upper tubes in the trees. Remove the front wheel with the bike appropriately jacked up. Drain the forks. Remove the fender or fork brace (snicker), and dismount the brake caliper from the fork lower. In the axle mounts of the fork lowers, you'll find an 8mm Allen head bolt. While there is still spring pressure in the forks, break loose but don't remove that bolt. Remove the fork caps unloading the spring pressure, and then remove that 8MM bolt. You might need to apply a bit of pressure to the main spring to keep an internal part from spinning with the 8MM bolt. When the bolt comes off, the fork lower slides off the end of the fork tube giving you access to the fork seal. Sometimes, an inertial impact tool is needed to remove that 8MM bolt. But, not always. The job can be done in half an hour once it becomes routine. Pity I'm so slow at this.

Gotta go. Talk to you later...
Cheers,

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Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210448 times)