Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210455 times)

TwoTired · « **Reply #275 on:** February 26, 2007, 06:08:50 PM »

Your labeling of B equates to the F (Fire) mark at low RPM (1250).

The advance should place the mark between C & D at 2500 RPM.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #276 on:** February 26, 2007, 06:35:25 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 26, 2007, 06:08:50 PM

Your labeling of B equates to the F (Fire) mark at low RPM (1250).

The advance should place the mark between C & D at 2500 RPM.

Cheers,

Thx very much TwoTired. I just hope the new tach I have is accurate....actually I should probably hook up the original one for the tuneup process.

I had it set to the A mark for the valve adjust......hope that was right

Tried my brand new petcock that I got off e-bay again after I took it off and cleaned it out and it still won't shut off.....it slows down but still quite a good stream out of both tubes.....grrrrrrrrrr!

MrFry · « **Reply #277 on:** February 26, 2007, 09:22:20 PM »

Quote from: doug_id on February 26, 2007, 06:35:25 PM

Quote from: TwoTired on February 26, 2007, 06:08:50 PM
Your labeling of B equates to the F (Fire) mark at low RPM (1250).

The advance should place the mark between C & D at 2500 RPM.

Cheers,

Thx very much TwoTired. I just hope the new tach I have is accurate....actually I should probably hook up the original one for the tuneup process.

I had it set to the A mark for the valve adjust......hope that was right

Tried my brand new petcock that I got off e-bay again after I took it off and cleaned it out and it still won't shut off.....it slows down but still quite a good stream out of both tubes.....grrrrrrrrrr!

was there a gasket behind the petcock lever?
there should be a rubber guy with holes in it (how it selects what is on and what is off)

doug_id · « **Reply #278 on:** February 26, 2007, 09:35:52 PM »

Quote from: MrFry on February 26, 2007, 09:22:20 PM

Quote from: doug_id on February 26, 2007, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: TwoTired on February 26, 2007, 06:08:50 PM
Your labeling of B equates to the F (Fire) mark at low RPM (1250).

The advance should place the mark between C & D at 2500 RPM.

Cheers,

Thx very much TwoTired. I just hope the new tach I have is accurate....actually I should probably hook up the original one for the tuneup process.

I had it set to the A mark for the valve adjust......hope that was right

Tried my brand new petcock that I got off e-bay again after I took it off and cleaned it out and it still won't shut off.....it slows down but still quite a good stream out of both tubes.....grrrrrrrrrr!

was there a gasket behind the petcock lever?
there should be a rubber guy with holes in it (how it selects what is on and what is off)

I didn't take the petcock apart to that extent......I guess that is my next step. So close to the first ride and to be held up by a faulty NEW petcock is agravating......doh!

I screwed up tonight when I came in to eat dinner I forgot to turn the petcock off on the old tank I have hooked up to the bike while I tune it. Looks like the fuel backed up the tubes and then ran out the top......I guess the fuel line I used to run from the tank to the bike must be somewhat wider than the stock tubing....anyway there was a nice pool of gas on the floor of my garage and of course all over the engine behind the cylinders.....and of course the new paint wiped right off.....sigh.

either I really screwed up the application of that duplicolor high temp engine enamal or it is just crappy paint. Oh well even if all the paint comes off at least the engine will still be clean

. Anybody had any luck engine painting with a brush as I am not quite up for pulling the engine again?.....

DME · « **Reply #279 on:** February 26, 2007, 11:55:58 PM »

Have you got the fiberwashers for the bolts that holds the petcock to the tank?
Without them you get the symptoms you are describing.
Just a though.

Cheers
Dan

bill440cars · « **Reply #280 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:26:55 AM »

Oh Doug, I know it doesn't really help but, I truly feel your pain.

I can imagine what you're going through and wish I could give you a hand but, kinda hard since I'm in Arkansas. I know you're longing to get things straight so you can go for that long (emphasis on LONG) awaited ride. LOL on that one Doug.
Later on, Bill

doug_id · « **Reply #281 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:07:45 AM »

Quote from: DME on February 26, 2007, 11:55:58 PM

Have you got the fiberwashers for the bolts that holds the petcock to the tank?
Without them you get the symptoms you are describing.
Just a though.

Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan,

Hmmmmmm I was wondering about that....the petcock did not come with any attaching screws so I picked up some allen head bolts at the hardware store. I didn't use any washer originally but after it leaked when I put them on I e-mailed the guy who I purchased it from and he told me no washer or o-rings needed. Not sure he knows what he is talking about though. Are these fiber washers something that you have to get at a honda dealer? Will rubber oring gaskets work as well?

Thx,
Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #282 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:09:54 AM »

Quote from: bill440cars on February 27, 2007, 04:26:55 AM

Oh Doug, I know it doesn't really help but, I truly feel your pain. I can imagine what you're going through and wish I could give you a hand but, kinda hard since I'm in Arkansas. I know you're longing to get things straight so you can go for that long (emphasis on LONG) awaited ride. LOL on that one Doug.
Later on, Bill

Thx Bill,

I was bumming last night but feeling better this morning.......compared to how smoothly the rest of the project has gone this is just a little speed bump.

Doug

bill440cars · « **Reply #283 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:23:00 AM »

Doug, sounds like you're in pretty good spirits. I hope that, when I get to that stage of the build, I can be as composed as you seem to be. I sure hated to hear that deal about the paint on the motor. I know that the main thing right now is to get the things lined out, but I can't help but think about the paint job on the motor and hope you don't have much trouble getting that squared away. Catch you later on, Bill

doug_id · « **Reply #284 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:44:21 AM »

That is good to hear on the paint. Right now it is just the paint behind the cylinders that came off. I was hoping with my running the engine for the tuneup and carb work that it would have cured the paint. But I imagaine the back end of the engine probably didn't get hot enough for long enough to do the trick. I think after I get it running I will spray some of the paint into a jar then try to apply with a brush.

Yes on the valve adjust and the chain adjustment......sounds like I did that part right....

The screw on the cam chains only moved a little and then almost moved all the way back to the original position when I tightened up the lock nut. Should I have held it in position with a screw driver when tightening the lock nut?

Thx,
Doug

DME · « **Reply #285 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:33:49 AM »

Quote from: doug_id on February 27, 2007, 06:07:45 AM

Quote from: DME on February 26, 2007, 11:55:58 PM
Have you got the fiberwashers for the bolts that holds the petcock to the tank?
Without them you get the symptoms you are describing.
Just a though.

Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan,

Hmmmmmm I was wondering about that....the petcock did not come with any attaching screws so I picked up some allen head bolts at the hardware store. I didn't use any washer originally but after it leaked when I put them on I e-mailed the guy who I purchased it from and he told me no washer or o-rings needed. Not sure he knows what he is talking about though. Are these fiber washers something that you have to get at a honda dealer? Will rubber oring gaskets work as well?

Thx,
Doug

That is probably you culprit.

Dunno if you can get the fiberwashers from the Honda dealer, I´ve never tried myself.
I know I´ve got a set of stock bolts with washers somewhere.
You can have them if you want (and if I can find them....)
Dont think o-ring will work to well in that place. They will probably just bulge out when you tighten the bolts.
The stock fiber washers seem rock solid but they are needed to stop fuel leaking past the bolts.

PM your adress and I´ll send the bolts and washers to you. Would be cool to help out a fellow SOHC:er on the other side of the big pond

But perhaps you want to find a source a bit closer then Sweden?

Cheers
Daniel

doug_id · « **Reply #286 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:13:45 AM »

Hi Daniel,

Hey, thx for the offer!

Let me check with my honda dealer and hardware store before you go thru the trouble of mailing those across the pond though.

Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #287 on:** February 27, 2007, 10:49:39 AM »

Quote from: doug_id on February 27, 2007, 06:44:21 AM

The screw on the cam chains only moved a little and then almost moved all the way back to the original position when I tightened up the lock nut. Should I have held it in position with a screw driver when tightening the lock nut?

When you loosen the tensioner lock nut, the post releases a friction slider inside. It is spring loaded so that the slider is allowed to move a shoe into the slack part of the cam chain. The shoe moves with the twisting motion of the post or stud poking out the back if the engine. The lock nut freezes the slider and therefore the shoe in position so the chain won't flop around.

That's how it worked when new 30 years ago. The slider can stick. So, after loosening the lock nut I push the stud in a very small amount to help release the friction slider. The stud has a screw slot, too. You can twist the stud to help free the friction slider and feel the spring do it's job. However, 30 years of tension may have fatigued the spring somewhat, so I add a tiny bit more twist on the post, while I tighten down the lock nut. However, for this to work, you have to have the cam chain slack on the tensioner side by position ing the crank/cam properly.

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #288 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:22:52 PM »

Thx for the info on the tensioner guys.....I will try that again today.

Also found some fiber washers at ace hardware.....yeha.....not sure that is the only issue with the petcock though. I can see how some fuel could leak down the screw threads but it seemed to be quite a bit more than I think that would produce. I will disassemble the whole thing and see what I can figure out and or break.

Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #289 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:10:15 PM »

Well, checked the timing today and it was pretty much spot on at 1250 and 2500 rpm on both 1-4 and 2-3 cylinders.

Then I set to syncing the carbs with the morgan carb tool. That went pretty well. I used #2 carb as a reference and adjusted them all to that. When I first hooked it up they were way out of sync. I would then adjust the screws to get them all pretty close to the same then rev the engine a couple of times and let it fall back to idle. After I tightened the locknots (while not allowing the adjusting screws themselves to move) they were no longer quite as close as before so I fiddled with them a couple of more times. Finally called it good. Really sounds smooth now and nice steady idle.

Now for the bad news......Appears I have oil leaking somewhere between the front of 3 & 4 cylinders. Not sure yet exactly where it is coming from. When I was installing my stainless steel bolt kit a few months ago I had to use an impact driver to get some of the old screws out. When I did this on one of the head screws it actually cracked/broke off the mounting hole. At the time I turned off all the lights in the garage and shown a small flashlight into the tappet hole that was next to the crack to see if I could see light coming out of the crack.....I didn't see any so I decided to let it go. I don't see any obvious signs of oil leaking from the crack but maybe it is coming down the back side somehow and coming back out on the fins? I think my next step will be to remove the cracked corner and examine it more closely. I guess if it is the culprit maybe I could use some of this magic JB weld stuff I hear about? Or maybe have to replace the entire top piece?

Anyway here are a few pics of the oil leak and the cracked area right next cylinder 3..............

TwoTired · « **Reply #290 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:28:31 PM »

I think you need a replacement cam cover. You can get them from Honda for about $290 dollars, unless the price went up again.
I recommend you find a used one from a 77 or 78 550, as these have improved rocker pivot shaft mountings. Try to get the cam and rockers together as a matched set along with the cam cover. I've seen the set sell for $50 on eBay.

Those cracked flanges will not keep proper pressure on "o" ring gasket in the cover. Sorry.
If you could find a super welder to clean and heliarc the part back on the cover, and then a machinist to restore the "flatness", you could reuse the now broken cover.

Cheers?

doug_id · « **Reply #291 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:37:56 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on February 27, 2007, 04:28:31 PM

I think you need a replacement cam cover. You can get them from Honda for about $290 dollars, unless the price went up again.
I recommend you find a used one from a 77 or 78 550, as these have improved rocker pivot shaft mountings. Try to get the cam and rockers together as a matched set along with the cam cover. I've seen the set sell for $50 on eBay.

Those cracked flanges will not keep proper pressure on "o" ring gasket in the cover. Sorry.
If you could find a super welder to clean and heliarc the part back on the cover, and then a machinist to restore the "flatness", you could reuse the now broken cover.

Cheers?

Hi TwoTired,

So you think that is the source of the leak?

Is this what I need? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/76-HONDA-CB-550-VALVE-COVER-ROCKER-ARMS-CB550_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQihZ006QQitemZ160089812070QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

+ a new gasket I assume.

I would guess these can be swapped out with the engine in the bike? Then just re-adjust valve clearances?

Thx much,
Doug

TwoTired · « **Reply #292 on:** February 27, 2007, 05:43:50 PM »

I can believe it can be the source of "A" leak. You'll have to check and see if it is "THE" leak. You can use foot powder or K2R spray. to find the source. The oil will get soaked up and leave a trail in the opposite direction of gravity. Usually at the top is the source. If it is the cam cover seam, then the crack aren't allowing the proper squeeze on the cover gasket. But, the rocker inspection caps can leak, too. How old are those Orings? You do know that those fined caps aren't stock, yes?

The eBay pointer is for a 76. It is technically the correct part for your bike. The picture is not of sufficient quality to determine wear patterns on the rocker cam follower faces. When the cover rocker shafts turn in the soft aluminum cover, the supports can wear unevenly, allowing the rockers to Kant on the cam lobes, resulting in uneven wear on both the cam lobes AND the cam followers. They don't all do this. But, some do. And, you don't want one. (But, if you do I'll happily send you one!

) Anyway, this is why I recommend getting a 77-78 cover the redesign prevents both cover wear AND cam/cam follower wear. You may well find your existing cam and followers damaged once you open it up a take a look at them.

If not too old (more than a year or two in use) the cover gaskets can be reused. But, like all rubber, it hardens with age and becomes stubborn in the sealing department. If you can easily dig your thumbnail deeply into it, then it can be cleaned and reused. But, the cross section should be round, if oval, replace.

Yes, all top end work can be performed on the CB500/550 with the engine in frame. There is a service warning about installing the cam cover you would do well to heed. Wouldn't want to bend all the valve stems, now. $$$$$$

Cheers,

doug_id · « **Reply #293 on:** February 27, 2007, 06:26:47 PM »

Thx guys......looks like I have yet more learning opportunities ahead of me.......yeha!

I think I understand the reason for the rubber bands. I will probably take a few pics as I go thru this process....before I tighten anything down!

I will go ahead and order a new gasket and new tappet cover o-rings. Yea, I bought the finned ones. I will most likely go back to the stock ones though as they finned ones don't play nice with the extended head on the new allen bolts.

First ride delayed again...waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Oh, Wykydtron is there anything else that happened to your project that I should know about?

bill440cars · « **Reply #294 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:06:15 PM »

Hey Doug,

Man, I hate to hear of the problems that are popping up on your bike.

Sure hope things are gonna settle down soon so that you can enjoy putting some miles on it.

After all the work that you put in on it, you need to get some enjoyment out of it.

Later on, Bill

doug_id · « **Reply #295 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:27:26 PM »

Thx Bill,

I just adjusted my attitude back into project mode and out of riding mode....not riding it until I get all known issues dealt with.......of course it helps that we are forecast for crappy weather in the 10 day.

Later,
Doug

doug_id · « **Reply #296 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:19:38 AM »

Amazing! within a few mins of deciding to get a new cam cover and wanting one from a 77-78 model someone posts one on e-bay!

I hope it works out $:-\$

bill440cars · « **Reply #297 on:** February 28, 2007, 06:37:06 AM »

Hey Doug, I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya.

Later on, Bill

andy750 · « **Reply #298 on:** February 28, 2007, 03:16:34 PM »

Wykydtron I dont mean to laugh but your last post was very funny and I was laughing. Nice one.

cheers
Andy

doug_id · « **Reply #299 on:** February 28, 2007, 05:07:10 PM »

Quote from: Wykydtron on February 28, 2007, 01:51:49 PM

Quote from: doug_id on February 27, 2007, 06:26:47 PM
Oh, Wykydtron is there anything else that happened to your project that I should know about?

Lets see...Use a torque wrench when putting your exhaust stud nuts on so you dont snap the stud like an idiot, but youre past that part. Umm, if you ever have to split the cases, make sure when you put them back together that you are absolutely sure everything lined up correctly so you dont bugger up a crank shaft seal, then have to pull the motor all over again, and split the cases..again to replace the seal, because you have one hell of an oil leak, that sucks. Only other thing I can think of is after its "complete"(still have plans for mine) dont drink a few with your buddies then invite them out to garage so you can show them your finished project, fire it up for them, then decide to do a giant burnoff in the garage, then accidentaly have the wheel get traction, shoot you accross the garage, and almost wreck into your beloved, all original 75 550, that almost sucked! I think youre a little more mature than that though. Im still kinda not.

Gotta love ebay huh? 550 parts are cheap cheap cheap! Thats been my experience anyway.

I have much pain in my future.....doh!

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Author Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-) (Read 210455 times)