Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-)

[TwoTired]

I asked you to check oil level to see if enough gas leaked past the rings to effect the oil level and gauge contamination percentage.

Running with thinned oil is the concern.  Replacing the thinned oil is the cure for that calamity.  I don't think you've run it long enough or got it hot enough to cause any serious damage.  Hmm, thinned oil COULD make the tappets noisier... thinking out loud.

As to why your float valves aren't sealing, petcock leaking, or overflow tubes aren't working... Well, these are thing to investigate and correct.  Have you got a check list?
Isn't this an ongoing project?  For fun, right?

Cheers,

[doug_id]

I asked you to check oil level to see if enough gas leaked past the rings to effect the oil level and gauge contamination percentage.

Running with thinned oil is the concern.  Replacing the thinned oil is the cure for that calamity.  I don't think you've run it long enough or got it hot enough to cause any serious damage.  Hmm, thinned oil COULD make the tappets noisier... thinking out loud.

As to why your float valves aren't sealing, petcock leaking, or overflow tubes aren't working... Well, these are thing to investigate and correct.  Have you got a check list?
Isn't this an ongoing project?  For fun, right?

Cheers,

Sorry TT....you first msg with the  face gave me a panic attack.

Well, this problem occured after the tappet and 1st ride so I don't think that was an issue with that.

So, I will just replace the oil I just drained with fresh and call it good I guess.

Yep.....Gonna pull the carbs and tear into em again......joy joy 

Yes, for fun right up until bankruptcy       

Thx,
Doug

[JohnK6]

i was amazed about this thread, very nice job well done,I'm curios what the exhaust sounds like

 about you're carburetors i would replace the float valve of the carburetor which is leaking fuel,(the tip of the float valve can be damaged), and check the hight of you're float set

[doug_id]

i was amazed about this thread, very nice job well done,I'm curios what the exhaust sounds like

 about you're carburetors i would replace the float valve of the carburetor which is leaking fuel,(the tip of the float valve can be damaged), and check the hight of you're float set

Thx John,

Pipes are fairly loud but they do sound sweet.   When I get my fuel issues sorted out I will shoot a short vid and post to youtube....give you a better idea of what they sound like.

Yeah, pretty sure floats/float valve is the culprit.  Also have to double check the over flow tubes....the fuel should have drained out there and never reached the air filter.

Doug

[mrbreeze]

So did you leave your petcock on? I thought you said it was shut off and gas still flowed into your air filter. If you shut the petcock off after you ride....it shouldn't overflow unless the petcock is bad.

[doug_id]

So did you leave your petcock on? I thought you said it was shut off and gas still flowed into your air filter. If you shut the petcock off after you ride....it shouldn't overflow unless the petcock is bad.

The petcock has a slow leak....due to the fiber gaskets that seal the mounting screws.  I got the fiber washers from the hardware store....I now have some honda ones on order.  I hope they do the trick and seal the leak.   

I also ordered a pair of inline shutoff valves from Z1.....one way or the other I am going to be able shut off fuel to the carbs.   

Then will be tearing down the carbs again next weekend.  at minimum I will be replacing all the fuel shutoff valve components in each as well as making sure the overflow tubes are clear.

Have my fingers crossed.   

[mrbreeze]

Me too!!!!!(fingers crossed!!!). Hope you get it all right>>>>>sounds like you're cruisin other than the leaks!!!

[doug_id]

While waiting for some carb parts to arrive I thought I would go back and try to figure out why turning on the headlight for more than a few seconds blows the 7amp fuse.   Before I jammed alll the wires back into the headlight bucket this was not happening.....so I am pretty sure the problem lies in the bucket.   What is the best strategy for diagnosing the problem.   I have visually inspected the connections in the bucket and didn't see anything obviously wrong.  I do have an aftermarket all in one replacement switch so I have a few connections in the bucket that are not being used.   I assume the ground is ok or it the headlight would not come on at all right? 

I guess I should get out the electrical tape and start applying to all unused connections.....any other ideas?

Oh, where do you find this di-electric grease I keep reading about?

Thx Much,
Doug

[ProTeal55]

Heat Shrink is your friend when it comes to that nightmare in the headlite bucket.
Wish ya the best of luck getting that scoot sorted out...

[bgfootball67]

You should be able to get the di-electric grease at any auto parts store.  Should help out with the plug in connectors and I use it for all of my turn signal bulbs...

[TwoTired]

Troubleshooting electrical foibles is largely about gathering data.

What is your headlight watt rating LOW and HI?

What do you mean a few seconds?  The blowing is time delayed?

Can you place your thumb on the fuse and contact clips without pain and burning flesh?

Was this bike an F model or K model?  What schematics are you using? Is it still the stock wire Harness?

Do you have a headlight on/off switch? A HI/LO switch?

Have you knowingly wired anything besides the healight to  the Blue, White, or BR/R Wires?

Do you have a multi-meter?  Digital or analog?  Brand and model number?  A picture of the face plate showing knob settings?

Cheers,

[TwoTired]

TT:  You should add this when you  make posts like that...   Gone Fishin'

I'm thinkin' that guy needs a bigger pole to retrieve his bike from that lake.

But, after a few hours sittin' under that hat, I probably wouldn't care...

[doug_id]

Troubleshooting electrical foibles is largely about gathering data.

What is your headlight watt rating LOW and HI?

What do you mean a few seconds?  The blowing is time delayed?

Can you place your thumb on the fuse and contact clips without pain and burning flesh?

Was this bike an F model or K model?  What schematics are you using? Is it still the stock wire Harness?

Do you have a headlight on/off switch? A HI/LO switch?

Have you knowingly wired anything besides the healight to  the Blue, White, or BR/R Wires?

Do you have a multi-meter?  Digital or analog?  Brand and model number?  A picture of the face plate showing knob settings?

Cheers,

Hi TT,


What is your headlight watt rating LOW and HI?   Not sure....is stock have to check.

What do you mean a few seconds?  The blowing is time delayed?  It blows fuse after about 8 seconds

Can you place your thumb on the fuse and contact clips without pain and burning flesh?  Have not tried this....do this while headlight is on or after it burns out?   Should I have medics on standby?   

Was this bike an F model or K model?  What schematics are you using? Is it still the stock wire Harness?  K model, stock harness, new universal control. Using honda manual and a 1 or 2 schematics I have picked up here in other threads.


Do you have a headlight on/off switch? A HI/LO switch?  yes to all......in the new handlebar control.



Have you knowingly wired anything besides the healight to  the Blue, White, or BR/R Wires?  Will check on that and post later.

Do you have a multi-meter?   yes   Digital or analog?  analog  Brand and model number? have to check...cheapo  A picture of the face plate showing knob settings?  will get one taken and post later.

Thx for assistance.....I love wires....

Doug

[TwoTired]

What is your headlight watt rating LOW and HI?   Not sure....is stock have to check.
Stock headlight is 40/50Watt  That's 3.34 Amps or 4.16 amps, depending filament selected or 7.49 amps if both are selected together (not wise).  The circuit is fused at 7 Amps, and the fuses usually blow at about 110% of rating as it heats up the fusible link.

What do you mean a few seconds?  The blowing is time delayed?  It blows fuse after about 8 seconds
I'm guessing you've wired the headlight to activate both filaments simultaneously.  You should go to a 10Amp fuse if that was your intention.  But, you may be replacing headlights often.

Can you place your thumb on the fuse and contact clips without pain and burning flesh?  Have not tried this....do this while headlight is on or after it burns out?   Should I have medics on standby?   
headlight on, medics at your discretion.  The fuse will get warm with an overcurrent.  Hot enough to melt that special metal inside. But, if the fuse clips have oxidation, that resistivity will also create heat.  It's up to you to figure out where the heat originates.

Was this bike an F model or K model?  What schematics are you using? Is it still the stock wire Harness?  K model, stock harness, new universal control. Using honda manual and a 1 or 2 schematics I have picked up here in other threads.
I can marry schematics only if they are visible or if I have an accurate description of what wire goes where.

Do you have a headlight on/off switch? A HI/LO switch?  yes to all......in the new handlebar control.

You have a schematic or wire descriptor?

Have you knowingly wired anything besides the headlight to  the Blue, White, or BR/R Wires?  Will check on that and post later.

Do you have a multi-meter?   yes   Digital or analog?  analog  Brand and model number? have to check...cheapo  A picture of the face plate showing knob settings?  will get one taken and post later.
Will your meter measure current?  What is it's capacity?

Thx for assistance.....I love wires....
You're welcome and... okay...
It's not often you see someone comes "out" like that, Doug.  But, I have to admit, I've fondled my share. 

[upperlake04]

clever use of colored text guys

[mrbreeze]

What kind of universal controls? Got pics of them? how many wires on each control?......The reason I ask....I just installed Yamaha 650 controls and even though they have exactly the same switches as my bike,they operate a little differently and of course are different colors as my bike. I tried to do it all on paper looking at good diagrams for my bike and lousy ones for the Yamaha. I had about 90% of it figured out on paper and gave up on the rest. I hooked up what I knew and it only took me 15 minutes to figure the rest.......just be careful doing it that way....you don't want to fry anything.

[doug_id]

What kind of universal controls? Got pics of them? how many wires on each control?......The reason I ask....I just installed Yamaha 650 controls and even though they have exactly the same switches as my bike,they operate a little differently and of course are different colors as my bike. I tried to do it all on paper looking at good diagrams for my bike and lousy ones for the Yamaha. I had about 90% of it figured out on paper and gave up on the rest. I hooked up what I knew and it only took me 15 minutes to figure the rest.......just be careful doing it that way....you don't want to fry anything.

Hello Mrbreeze

This is an all in one (minus the starter)  from these guys http://offroad.parts-unlimited.com/20/216/2812922?q=2106-0010
 

I had everything working (except the kill switch) a while back.....like I say I think my problems started when I pushed everything back in the bucket.
But wait.....thats also about the time I started using new 7amp fuses from a place on the internet.   I guess it is possible they are not the correct ones and melt under the  load.  Will find out the details on those as well.

TT....I am working on the rest of the questions you had.

thx all for the hand 

[LoopsAndLogic]

  I used a set of GL500 Silverwing controls. They went on perfectly and there were only 2 different colored wires that I had to guess where they would go.

And I guessed right!  There not to big but they look good.

  How would you figure the draw of amps from a headlight bulb??

[doug_id]

Hi TT,

More of the info you requested......

Pic of the meter I have been using....primarily just to test for live wires under different conditions (ignition setting/control settings)


Here is a pic of the new fuses I got in.....


Here is a pic of the univeral control wiring doc....(note the very last statement  )


Here is some general wiring info I have been using that I found in another thread..... (long)

Fortunately, Honda kept the wire color codes pretty much the same throughout the 70’s.

Here’s a general list for the SOHC/4’s (Consult your manual for specifics):

Main Color/Tracer Stripe Color- Description (Approximate Path, if Applicable)

All Circuits
Red- Constant Hot From Battery (Battery Terminal-Main Fuse-Key Switch)
Black- Switched Power Supply Buss (Throughout motorcycle)
Green- Ground (Throughout motorcycle)

Lighting
Brown- Tail Light Power (Main Switch-Tail Light)
Brown/White- Instrumentation Backlighting (Lighting Switch-Instruments)
Orange- Left Turn Signals (Turn Signal Switch-Front/Rear Signals)
Orange/White- Left Front Marker (Light Switch-Marker Lamp)
Light Blue- Right Turn Signals (Turn Signal Switch-Front/Rear Signals)
Light Blue/White- Right Front Marker (Light Switch-Marker Lamp)
Gray- Pulsing Power for Signals (Flasher Relay-Turn Signal Switch)
Blue- High Beam Power (Hi/Lo Switch-Headlamp/Indicator Lamp)
White- Low Beam Power (Hi/Lo Switch-Headlamp)
Brown/Red- Fused Headlamp Power (Fuse Box-Hi/Lo Switch)

Ignition
Black/White- Coil Power Supply (Cutoff Switch-Coils)
Yellow- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 2&3 (Right Points-2&3 Coil)
Blue- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 1&4 (Left Points-1&4 Coil)

Starting/Safety/Monitoring
Blue/Red- Oil Pressure Signal (Oil Pressure Switch-Indicator Lamp)
Red/Green- Neutral Switch Signal (Neutral Switch-Indicator Lamp-Safety Unit)
Green/Red- Clutch Switch (Safety Unit-Clutch Switch-Starter Button)
Green/White- Horn (Horn Button-Horn)
Yellow/Red- Solenoid Signal (Starter Button-Solenoid/Safety Unit)
Green/Yellow- Brake Light Power (Front Brake Switch/Rear Brake Switch-Brake Light)
Brown/Blue- Turn Signal Pickup (Turn Signal Beeper-Turn Signal Switch)

Charging (3-Phase External Excitation Systems)
Yellow- Stator Coil Output (Stator-Rectifier)
White- Field Coil Supply (Field Coil-Voltage Regulator)
Red/White- Positive Rectifier Output (Rectifier-Battery)



I opened the bucket back up to note how I have the control wired now.....

HI/LO Main - Red wire from control to 4pin connector in bucket....joins to 2 black wires (one from main harness and other to idiot lights) also one black/white wire from main harness.

Hi Beam - Yellow wire from control connects to blue wire to idiot lights and wire to highbeam connecton on headlight

Lo Beam - Green wire from control to wire to lowbeam connection on headlight.

I will have to take the side cover off (not as easy as it used to be) to test the connection temp with my finger.....looking forward to that   

Hope that helps....let me know if you need more info....

Thx much,
Doug   

[zoomer]

Hi Doug, I'm pretty hopeless at electrics, this much might help: excess power blows fuses and it's determined by current (amps) I, voltage V and resistance R (ohms)
V= I.R (volts)
power = V.I (watts)

So power= I.I.R

Your voltage should be 12 right? The bulbs are rated at whatever watts and you can measure circuit and bulb resistance so you can do some arithmetic to see what doesn't add up.

If bulbs are wired in parallel then they suck a lot more juice than if they are wired in series one after the other because their reistance is added together R+R instead of being combined in another law 1/R = 1/R +1/R so two 5 ohm resistors in // have just 2.5 ohm or 10 ohm in series, big difference.

The fuse itself will have some small resistance value which increases as it gets hotter and the rest of the circuit should be minimal apart from the bulbs themselves. There should be a magic number to check for the system resistance.

[CrisPDuk]

I will have to take the side cover off (not as easy as it used to be) to test the connection temp with my finger.....looking forward to that   

Thx much,
Doug   

Your wife may disagree with me here (I know mine does), but this is exactly the sort of job children are born for   Remember, what doesn't kill 'em makes 'em stronger

There are two downsides to this philosophy though;

1/  One day, they will become strong enough to fight back

2/  Remember who will be picking your residential care home

[TwoTired]

Hi Doug,

Your fuses are fine.  Your meter is basic and won't be able to measure the bike's circuit currents.  It will still be usefull.  But, now I know what you can and can't measure with it and what I can reasonably ask you to do when information is needed.
Is the switch diagram you posted for both control groups or just one side?  Maybe I need a pointer to the switch source, or a pic of the controls.

I opened the bucket back up to note how I have the control wired now.....

HI/LO Main - Red wire from control to 4pin connector in bucket....joins to 2 black wires (one from main harness and other to idiot lights) also one black/white wire from main harness.

maybe this is part of the problem, maybe not... more later...


Hi Beam - Yellow wire from control connects to blue wire to idiot lights and wire to highbeam connecton on headlight
This is ok
Lo Beam - Green wire from control to wire to lowbeam connection on headlight.
this is ok, should be the white headlight wire.

What do you have the green headlight wire connected to?

I will have to take the side cover off (not as easy as it used to be) to test the connection temp with my finger.....looking forward to that   

Don't bother with that for now...

The bike originally had the headlight circuit fused in isolation.  Your switch selection doesn't appear to allow that.  It receives power from the Red wire connection and distributes it not only to the headlight but your turn sigs and park lights as well.  All these are now fused from the main fuse only.  For your headlight marked fuse issue, you need to find out what is now connected to the Br/R wire in your headlight bucket.  It should be unconnected and insulated which will render your headlight fuse superfluous (but it should stop melting!)

Do your switch controls have multiple red wires or just the one?  If just one, you're stuck with limited wiring options.  I hope the switch was inexpensive, because they seem to have cheaped out on the wires.

 ( I'm using the CB550K1 Schematic from the Honda shop manual.)

Cheers,

[doug_id]

I will have to take the side cover off (not as easy as it used to be) to test the connection temp with my finger.....looking forward to that   

Thx much,
Doug   

Your wife may disagree with me here (I know mine does), but this is exactly the sort of job children are born for   Remember, what doesn't kill 'em makes 'em stronger

There are two downsides to this philosophy though;

1/  One day, they will become strong enough to fight back

2/  Remember who will be picking your residential care home

Hi Cris,

You know my son is already on to me enough to know when not to do what I ask him and he is only 10....

[Chris Liston]

Doug,

Hope you figure out your electric gremlin.  Have to say the bike is looking awsome.  Love the seat/tank/pipes.  May have to find a way to swing the seat/tank past the wife ...  Looks great.

[doug_id]

Hi Doug,

Your fuses are fine.  Your meter is basic and won't be able to measure the bike's circuit currents.  It will still be usefull.  But, now I know what you can and can't measure with it and what I can reasonably ask you to do when information is needed.
Is the switch diagram you posted for both control groups or just one side?  Maybe I need a pointer to the switch source, or a pic of the controls.

Don't bother with that for now...

The bike originally had the headlight circuit fused in isolation.  Your switch selection doesn't appear to allow that.  It receives power from the Red wire connection and distributes it not only to the headlight but your turn sigs and park lights as well.  All these are now fused from the main fuse only.  For your headlight marked fuse issue, you need to find out what is now connected to the Br/R wire in your headlight bucket.  It should be unconnected and insulated which will render your headlight fuse superfluous (but it should stop melting!)

Do your switch controls have multiple red wires or just the one?  If just one, you're stuck with limited wiring options.  I hope the switch was inexpensive, because they seem to have cheaped out on the wires.

 ( I'm using the CB550K1 Schematic from the Honda shop manual.)

Cheers,

Hi TT,

Here is a pic of the control....I cut the 9pin connector off.  It has everything except a starter switch that I wired seperately.


The control slide switch on the left sets the lights off/park/headlight on.  Then the red push button controls the hi/lo beam.

Yes, the control just has the one red wire.

The BR/R wire in the bucket from the main harness is currently connected to the blue switch wire (parking light) and the the power to the two gauge lights.  Actually I wonder if that is my problem....maybe the headlight not causing fuse to burn out but the gauge lights when I turn the headlight on??   I can do without parking lights (don't think that is working anyway) so I can pull the blue switch wire from the BR/R harness wire.  But what should I connect the gauge lights to?......the same as the red switch light (hi/lo main)?

Thx,
Doug