Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-)

[doug_id]

Doug,

Hope you figure out your electric gremlin.  Have to say the bike is looking awsome.  Love the seat/tank/pipes.  May have to find a way to swing the seat/tank past the wife ...  Looks great.

Thx Chris,  Yea it is getting close....wiring and fuel/carb issues to solve.....but man the first ride was so much better than I expected.  Just wish I would have made it a longer one 

Doug

[doug_id]

Hi Doug, I'm pretty hopeless at electrics, this much might help: excess power blows fuses and it's determined by current (amps) I, voltage V and resistance R (ohms)
V= I.R (volts)
power = V.I (watts)

So power= I.I.R

Your voltage should be 12 right? The bulbs are rated at whatever watts and you can measure circuit and bulb resistance so you can do some arithmetic to see what doesn't add up.

If bulbs are wired in parallel then they suck a lot more juice than if they are wired in series one after the other because their reistance is added together R+R instead of being combined in another law 1/R = 1/R +1/R so two 5 ohm resistors in // have just 2.5 ohm or 10 ohm in series, big difference.

The fuse itself will have some small resistance value which increases as it gets hotter and the rest of the circuit should be minimal apart from the bulbs themselves. There should be a magic number to check for the system resistance.

Hi Zoomer,

Thx for trying but I think your knowledge of electrics dwarfs mine.   

My knowledge level of electrical systems is power on.....pain....power off no pain.......confusion constant. 

[CrisPDuk]

Hi Cris,

You know my son is already on to me enough to know when not to do what I ask him and he is only 10....

Your son is obviously smarter then, I could still get mine to do stupid stuff like this until he was 14

His sister is 21 in a couple of months, and I can still get her to do daft/painful things if I ask in the right way

[TwoTired]

Here is a pic of the control....I cut the 9pin connector off.  It has everything except a starter switch that I wired seperately.

The control slide switch on the left sets the lights off/park/headlight on.  Then the red push button controls the hi/lo beam.

Yes, the control just has the one red wire.

That's the left control, correct?  What happened to the right bar control with the lighting master switch?  Are you using the stock ignition switch?

The BR/R wire in the bucket from the main harness is currently connected to the blue switch wire (parking light) and the the power to the two gauge lights. 

The blue wire from your new switch is a 12 V supply outlet.  The BR/R is also a supply outlet from the fuse.  You've connected two outputs together.
(This is like Y connecting a garden hose from the front of your house to a garden hose from the back of your house.)
The instrument bulbs should receive power from the BR/W wires.

Honda's concept of a parking light was to illuminate the tail running light with the ignition switch in the II position.  What ignition switch are you using?  What do you want the parking position on the bar control to operate?  If you are using the stock ignition switch, don't use the blue wire from the bar control and insulate the end to prevent incidental connections, or you'll start blowing main fuses.  This line won't work as a parking light control anyway, as you are powering your switch control from the black wires in the harness, which is deactivated by the ignition switch in the off position or the II position. (assuming you have the stock ignition switch, anyway.)

Actually I wonder if that is my problem....maybe the headlight not causing fuse to burn out but the gauge lights when I turn the headlight on??   I can do without parking lights (don't think that is working anyway) so I can pull the blue switch wire from the BR/R harness wire.  But what should I connect the gauge lights to?......the same as the red switch light (hi/lo main)?

Thx,
Doug

Gauge lights = instrument lamps get powered from the BR/W wires.  Hopefully, your gauges have a ground return wire, too, which should connect to the bike's green wires.
You new control has rendered your headlight fuse useless so insulate its output; the BR/R wire, and it should stop blowing the fuse.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

Hi TT,

Thx for the info.   

I have a new ignition switch but I think it is just a stock replacement.  The left control is the only one there is now (except for the starter toggle switch)  the only thing on the right bar is the master cylinder and it has a built in sending unit for the brake light that I wired up and that works fine.

Yes, the guage lights do have a ground wire that I connected to the main harness ground wire.

I will give your suggestions a try and post results. 

Doug

[doug_id]

Well, disconnected the blue switch wire and taped it off.   Hooked gauge lights to BR/white.  Put in fresh fuse.

Headlights work fine now    .  Nothing from the guage lights so I hooked them up to the coupling from the red primary control wire....fused ignition power wire.  They are on all the time now that ignition is on but that shouldn't hurt anything.

Thx TT!   

Doug

[TwoTired]

The BR/W wires are active when the Right control light switch is activated.  This is (was) a master lighting switch and got its power from the black wires sourced at the ignition switch.  Later bikes don't have this Master lighting switch and all lighting is on when the ignition is turned on.  To emulate that, connect the bikes BR/W wires to the Black ones.  You may have done that if you used the red wire from the new switch (not a source) that is already connected to the Black (this is a power source).

How does your tail running light get power, now?  It should get it from the brown wire sourced from the ignition switch.  But, the ignition switch routes power from the BR/W wires, if it operates like the stock switch.  If so, your tail light is also dead and will be till you connect the black wires to the BR/W.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

The BR/W wires are active when the Right control light switch is activated.  This is (was) a master lighting switch and got its power from the black wires sourced at the ignition switch.  Later bikes don't have this Master lighting switch and all lighting is on when the ignition is turned on.  To emulate that, connect the bikes BR/W wires to the Black ones.  You may have done that if you used the red wire from the new switch (not a source) that is already connected to the Black (this is a power source).

How does your tail running light get power, now?  It should get it from the brown wire sourced from the ignition switch.  But, the ignition switch routes power from the BR/W wires, if it operates like the stock switch.  If so, your tail light is also dead and will be till you connect the black wires to the BR/W.

Cheers,

Well, I thought I was begining to understand this wiring stuff but noooooooo.   

I thought I had headlights, turn signals, idiot lights, gauge lights, brake lights working and playing nice together (no taillight as of yet).  So anyway I start trying to get the tail light working and in the process of doing that happened to try the turn signals while the headlight was on and ZAP.....back to the 5-8 seconds then 7amp fuse gone...doh   

So I put everything back the way it was this afternoon when I thought everything was good with 7amp fuse and headlight and try that headlight turn signal combo again with the same result.  Now I am out of 7amp fuses so the experiments are done until I can get some more.

Looks like the headlight still are somehow affecting that 7amp fuse.

Confusion reigns,
Doug

[bill440cars]

              Hang in there Doug , Electrical problems can be quite a pain. I'm not too good at trying to solve problems like that, long distance. And sometimes, I have trouble short distance. Anyway, here's hoping that between you and those trying to figure your problem out, you get it taken care of so you can Ride!!!!
                                                          Later on, Bill

[doug_id]

For sure Bill.....the very good news is it runs with the headlights off.......during the day I can live with that.  Or I guess I can ride with headlights on and just as long as I DON'T signal.....LMAO!!

 

Going out to pull carbs so I will be ready when parts arrive.   It should actually go pretty quick.  Just going to check and if necessary clear overflow tubes, change out fuel shutoff valves/seats for new ones, and adjust the float valves.  As far as I can tell everything else in the carbs is fine.

Later,
Doug

[bill440cars]

          You go Doug! We're pulling for ya dude!

                                               Later On, Bill

[TwoTired]

Tell me how you wired your turn signals.  Be thorough.  Actually, you should cover anything electrical you added or changed from stock.

Or, just tell me to go away if you want to work this out on your own.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

Tell me how you wired your turn signals.  Be thorough.  Actually, you should cover anything electrical you added or changed from stock.

Or, just tell me to go away if you want to work this out on your own.

Cheers,

No no.....pls don't go away......    I am not ashamed of any assistance on this....I could see this driving me even nuttier than I am if I try to figure it out on my own.   

Ok here goes....

Another shot of the switch wiring for reference...


-------------------------------------------
Turn Signals:  Aftermarket front and rear....two wires each.  Put one wire each to an open ground connection.  The other wire on the left I put to the bikes Orange wire connector the other wire for the right went to the bikes light blue wire connector. 

Turn Signal switch connection:  Switch Main TS wire (BR/WH) to bikes Grey wire connector.    Switch L-Turn wire (brown) to the bikes orange wire connector also connected here is the orange wire from the idiot light cluster.  Switch R-Turn wire (dark green) to the bikes light blue wire connector also connected here is the light blue wire from the idiot light cluster.

Status:  both turn signals work front and back as does the idiot light flasher.  But burns 7A fuse when used with headlights on.

-------------------------------------------
Toggle starter switch:  Two prong connections....one to bikes yellow/red connector and the other to the green/red connector

Status:  Working

-------------------------------------------

Sending unit from replacement front brake master cylinder:  two prong connections....one to bikes black wire and the other to green/yellow wire.  Rear brake wiring is all stock and working.

Status:  Working

-------------------------------------------

Gauge Lights:  Two wires......one to ground and one currently taped off.

Status....lights do work but are not connected now so they are inactive.

-------------------------------------------

Horn switch:  Ground (black) to bikes ground connection.  Horn main wire (pink) to bikes light green connection

Status:  working

-------------------------------------------

New Kill Switch:  Two wires (blue/white and black/white) that are currently not connected and taped off.

Status:  Not connected

-------------------------------------------

Headlights:  HL Main switch wire (red) to connection with bikes blk/wh, black wire from idiot lights, and black wire from main harness. 

Hi Beam switch wire (yellow) to connector with dark blue idiot light wire and HB connection on headlight.

Lo Beam switch wire (green) directly to headlight low beam connector.

Status.  All headlight functions work but shorts out 7A fuse when used at same time as Turn signals are active.  .  Hi beam idiot light works.

-------------------------------------------

Tail light (brown wire from main harness) not connected now.

Status: has worked in the past but not connected now

-------------------------------------------

Misc:  Both neutral and oil idiot lights work.

-------------------------------------------

I think that is everything.

Thx again for the assistance!! 
Doug

[mrbreeze]

Hey Doug,I'm sure you will get your wiring sorted out but just in case you still need help,let me know.I just finished wiring up Yamaha 650 controls to my bike and I have everything down on paper......it seems that the wire colors on your new control have some things in common with mine.....for instance the turn sig. wires are green-right....brown-left....pink-horn, ect.
Its late now but if you want me to list here where my wires go,let me know tomorrow.
I went nuts trying to do it on paper.....I had most of it but I finally had to hook up what I knew on the bike and play around with a couple of wires I wasn't sure about. Its a good feeling when you get it all straightened out.

[TwoTired]

Okay Doug,
I will use the info in your post.  But, lets start with some basic things.  Forgive me if these seem like stupid questions.  You have parts I haven't seen before, and how they work inside is important to correctly wiring them into a the bike's known wiring.

PART A
I've seen turn signals come in six varieties.  You need to determine which you have
1) Single element bulb, one hot wire, bulb socket connected to housing which is intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground assumption by signal manufacturer.)
2) Single element bulb, one hot wire, one return wire, bulb socket connected to housing which is intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground assumption by signal manufacturer.)
3) Single element bulb, one hot wire, one return wire, bulb socket insulated from housing which is NOT intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground IGNORED by signal manufacturer.)
4) Dual element Bulb, One low power running light wire, one High power bright filament wire, bulb socket connected to housing which is intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground assumption by signal manufacturer.)
5) Dual element Bulb, One low power running light wire, one High power bright filament wire, One bulb socket return wire, bulb socket connected to housing which is intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground assumption by signal manufacturer.)
6) Dual element Bulb, One low power running light wire, one High power bright filament wire, One bulb socket return wire, bulb socket insulated from housing which is NOT intended to be an electrical return connection. (Frame ground IGNORED by signal manufacturer.)

I need to know which of the above you have, and what the color codes are for the respective wires.  You've told me you have two wires.  But, I don't know their color codes or which of them is connected to the socket, filament, or lamp housing. SEE 2, 3, 4 above.

PART B
Since your operational success has been sporadic so far, I'm beginning to doubt my assumptions for the internal schematic of the bar switch control you've purchased.  Did the unit come with an internal schematic?  Or, just the wire pinout you posted?  Would be helpful to know what connects to what inside and when.

PART C
I'm concerned about your replacement ignition switch.  I overhauled the one on my 74 CB550 many years ago.  But, I do recall a wire jumper across  terminals on the back.   My memory is fuzzy on this.  But, I don't think that jumper showed up on the schematics.  You say your replaced your ign switch.  Did it come with a harness and connector?  Or, just the new switch that you soldered your old connector harness to?  And, is that wire jumper soldered on there?  In the daylight tommorrow, I'll go take a look at my 75 CB550 ignition switch to verify my recollection.

PART D
One thing I am certain of, is that when you removed the right bar control you lost the means of powering up the BR/W wires from the lighting master switch.  This is likely one reason your tail lamp won't work, as the brown wire gets power from the BR/W when the ign switch is in the (I) position.

Also, if your new bar control works like I think it does.  Connect the Red wire from the bar control to the BR/R wire in the bucket from the Headlight fuse.  I don't think you will be able to use your parking light wire.
BTW, the bar control picture you posted was a little too small to be useful.  However, if you've got an internal schematic, I don't need a more detailed picture.

Connection chart recommendation so far:
Bike harness wire ----Function---- Bar control wire color
BR/R    ------- Headlight power -------Red
Blue    -------- Hi Beam ------------ Yellow
White   ------- Lo Beam -------------Green
Grey    ------ Turn Signal power-----Brown/White
Orange ------ Left Turn signal -----Brown
Light blue ----Right Turn Signal ------ Dark Green
LG ----------Horn Main wire --------- Pink
Green ---------Horn Ground ------- Black
No Connection  ---Parking light ----- Blue

Br/W  ----|    General lighting
     Jumper]
Black ____|   Ign switch power

Bike harness wire ----Function---- Instrument wires
BR/W---------Lamp power------ Color?
Green --------Lamp/case ground ---Color?

That's how I'd do it with what I know now.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

Hi TT,

Hope I have some visuals/info here that will help...

New turn signals again have two wires one is black that I assumed was the ground wire so I connected to ground.  The other is blck/white  that I connected to either the orange or light blue depending on L or R side.

Here is a pic of the TS bulb....


Here ar some pics of the New universal control....(sorry no schematic came with it  )

Top view...


Front view...


Ignition switch....got off e-bay and as far as I know is just a direct replacement for stock unit.....the connector plugged right into the main harness with no changes made by me.   A few pics though....

Ignition and start toggle starter switch...


Ignition connection to main harness....


So if I understand your prior recommended changes I should move the switch headlight main wire to the bikes BR/R wire?   Other than that thw switch wiring remains the same?

Is the following something I need to do or the way it is?   

Br/W  ----|    General lighting
     Jumper]
Black ____|   Ign switch power

Bike harness wire ----Function---- Instrument wires
BR/W---------Lamp power------ Color?
Green --------Lamp/case ground ---Color?

Finally once I do these changes I should connect the brown tail light wire to??

Thx again......!

Doug

[doug_id]

Hey Doug,I'm sure you will get your wiring sorted out but just in case you still need help,let me know.I just finished wiring up Yamaha 650 controls to my bike and I have everything down on paper......it seems that the wire colors on your new control have some things in common with mine.....for instance the turn sig. wires are green-right....brown-left....pink-horn, ect.
Its late now but if you want me to list here where my wires go,let me know tomorrow.
I went nuts trying to do it on paper.....I had most of it but I finally had to hook up what I knew on the bike and play around with a couple of wires I wasn't sure about. Its a good feeling when you get it all straightened out.

Hello MrBreeze,

Yea, if you wouldn't mind that might be helpful.......   

Yes, I am sure it will feel nice to get this taken care of......kind of feel like playing a game of whack-a-mole..

Thx,
Doug

[Goldbug]

This has been one of the most ambitious projects I have seen by a "noob," keep up the good work and attention to detail. Get the wiring sorted and ride the piss out of it.

[KB02]

Just a quick pic for encouragement:

It CAN be done!!!!

[TwoTired]

New turn signals again have two wires one is black that I assumed was the ground wire so I connected to ground.  The other is blck/white  that I connected to either the orange or light blue depending on L or R side.

Looks like you have a single element bulb.  But, I'm afraid we need to know if your connection assumptions are correct.  To gain that solid information, you will use your meter.  Disconnect both wires to one of your turn signal fixtures.  Is the body of your signal made of metal, or plastic?  I'll assume metal, until you say otherwise.  Set your meter on the lowest resistance scale.  Connect the probes together and adjust the needle to read zero.  Now place one probe on the black signal lead and the other on the metallic body of the signal near where it is mounted to the bike.  Do the same test with the Blk/wht lead.  Do either of these tests cause a meter deflection?

The reason why I am requesting this is because if I use the same assumptions you did, I may get the same unexplainable results you have.  Don't take offence.  It's just that electricity operates on facts, not assumptions.  We need to KNOW if either of these wires are connected to frame ground, not guess.

The control pics helped my understanding. Thanks.  What is it you planned to have the park position operate?

Ignition switch....got off e-bay and as far as I know is just a direct replacement for stock unit.....the connector plugged right into the main harness with no changes made by me.   A few pics though....

That looks fine.  Though I'd like to see the solder connections under that boot behind the switch body.  There are actually two  TL2 solder connections on the stock switch. The brown wire connects to them both.  Your's should be okay.  But, given that it's aftermarket, I'd like to verify their engineering is correct.

I don't see an issue with your start switch or your connection scheme.  You did fine there.

So if I understand your prior recommended changes I should move the switch headlight main wire to the bikes BR/R wire?   

Yes

Other than that the switch wiring remains the same?

I think so.  My approach was to create a wire connection diagram independent of the connection scheme you provided.  A fresh approach, as it were.  I'm going to expect that you have made the connections on your bike that match my diagram.  It's up to you to verify the connections are properly made.   If at any time you wish to understand why I made connections they way I did, just ask.  But, I understood you just wanted to make the bike work.  And, that is what I am working toward.  My arms are simply not long enough to do hands on tweaking.

Is the following something I need to do or the way it is?   

Br/W  ----|    General lighting
     Jumper]
Black ____|   Ign switch power

Bike harness wire ----Function---- Instrument wires
BR/W---------Lamp power------ Color?
Green --------Lamp/case ground ---Color?

The BR/W to black jumper replaces the lighting switch you removed from the bike.  You need to restore that connection and make it permanent.  Or, add another switch.

You haven't told me your instrument (gauge) wire colors, and which one is connected to housing ground.  If you KNOW which is which, proceed.  Otherwise, relay the information and I'll complete the wire connection chart for you.

Finally once I do these changes I should connect the brown tail light wire to??

The brown wire in the headlight bucket remains unconnected and insulated from incidental contact.
The brown wire at the rear of the bike, connects to the low wattage filament of the dual filament bulb I assume is in your taillight housing.
You haven't given me any solid data yet about the taillight wire colors, fixture connections, grounding, or bulb type.

Hope this helps,

Here is a pic of my 75 CB550K ignition switch solder connections.

[doug_id]

Woooohoooooooooooo TT!!

Hooked the main HL wire to the bikes BR/R and connected the bikes BR/W to bikes black and turned on the ignition.  First tried just headlights ...then held breath and tried TS with headlight on high beam......it worked no blown fuse!!      I looked to the rear of the bike and the tail light had magically come on as well....BONUS!

Next tried all the other functions, starter, low beam, brake light, horn....it all works.   I think now all I need to do is hook guage light power wire to the (let me guess) BR/R bike wire and I should be good to go.

Amazing job of remote detective work!   

I really appreciate all your guidance with this.

And to top it all off my carb parts arrived from Z1 today.   

Thx!
Doug

[mrbreeze]

OK Doug....before I start....a few notes. I'm not using the safety switch (won't allow starter to operate unless clutch is pulled in or bike in nuetral). I always pull the clutch in when I start a bike!!. I'm also not using the front running lights. All that means is the sky blue-white and the orange-white wires aren't used. The Yamaha controls are of course using different color code than Honda and a few of the functions on the Yamaha switches don't pertain to the Honda (Thank God!!!). Therefore,there will be a couple of wires that aren't used. The Yamaha had a turn sigal cancelling unit that automatically turns off the turn signal after a certain distance is reached (in case you forget to cancel it yourself). It also had a reserve lighting unit that automatically switches the headlight to high beam in case you lose low beam (I can switch it myself,thank you very much!!!). These 2 systems are by-passed.
I see that you have the color code/description list that Jonesy posted........very helpful in piecing the puzzle together. I used that along with the Honda shop manual diagram. I also have the Clymers but found some discrepencies in their diagram. My bike is a 750 K5 but I think it will be close enough to your bike for comparison.
             Yamaha right control- 6 wires                      Honda color
blue-white--------starter-------------------------------------------- yellow-red
red-yellow---------lights on/off +    ----------------------------- black
blue-----------------instrument lights------------------------------brown-white
red-white---------kill switch to coils------------------------------black-white
brown--------------kill switch +      --------------------------------black
blue-black---------lights on/off to dimmer----------------------jumper to blue-yellow on left control

               left control-11 wires
blue-yellow-------dimmer + from light switch-----------------jumper to blue-black on right control
yellow--------------high beam---------------------------------------blue
green--------------low beam-----------------------------------------white
black---------------ground---------------------------------------------green
dark green-------right turn------------------------------------------sky blue
chocolate(brown) left turn----------------------------------------orange
brown-white----- turn sig + (from flasher)---------------------grey
pink-----------------horn-------------------------------------------------light green
yellow-black----------------------------------------not used
yellow-red------------------------------------------not used
blue---------------------------------------------------not used




 As far as the clutch switch by-pass.....you jumper the green-red wire in the bucket to green(ground).If you look at the Honda diagram,you see the cluch switch with green-red which goes to the starter safety unit and starter button.By hooking this wire to ground(green) you are by-passing the clutch switch and completing the circuit.
 When I did my wiring,I had like 95% of it figured out so I hooked it all up on the bike and using a ohm-meter,figured out the rest. I had everything but turn signals.I didn't have the indicator lights hooked up.The turn signal indicator light has to be hooked up to complete the circuit.This bulb takes a wire from each of the turn signals (sky-blue and orange). As soon as I hooked that up,the signals started working(completed the circuit).
   anyhow,good luck and hope this helps you out.

[TwoTired]

******Insert fan fare music here*******
Yeeessssss!  Well done! Congratulations!

 I think now all I need to do is hook guage light power wire to the (let me guess) BR/R bike wire and I should be good to go.

oooo close.  The BR/W connection is what I'd choose.  That's what the Honda gauges used, anyway.  So, you should have available connectors waiting in the harness.

Carefull you don't blister your thumb gleefully mashing switches and buttons on that control!

Cheers,

[doug_id]

******Insert fan fare music here*******
Yeeessssss!  Well done! Congratulations!

I think now all I need to do is hook guage light power wire to the (let me guess) BR/R bike wire and I should be good to go.

oooo close.  The BR/W connection is what I'd choose.  That's what the Honda gauges used, anyway.  So, you should have available connectors waiting in the harness.

Carefull you don't blister your thumb gleefully mashing switches and buttons on that control!

Cheers,

Doh...I failed my final exam...hehe....    Will try the BR/Wh then for the gauges.

If I had hand/s like the ones in your avatar...I would see if I could activate everything at once....!   

Out to work on carbs now.   BTW....the overflow tube on carb #2 was plugged....doh....must have just not checked that one.

Doug

[CrisPDuk]

Nice work guys

TwoTired, you are definitely on my list of people I will be consulting when the new loom I'm planning to build doesn't work