Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-)

[doug_id]

Thx Mrbreeze for posting that....I think I got it all working and I am not touching it....

[doug_id]

The carb kits from Z1 arrived to day....  ....to me they look much higher quality than the keyster kits.  So, I replaced all the shutoff valves and seats and then reset all floats to 22mm.  Put everything back on the bike and hooked up old tank so I can sync the carbs, etc.   Started right up.    

Going to leave the petcock open for a while to test the new shutoff valves (please work!).

Here is short vid of the bike running in the garage.  550 owners pls tell me if the cams area seems extra noisy to you.  I am still worried something might be wrong with my install of the replacement cam cover (77)..

Anyway check it out....sorry for the dark quality....my first attempt.

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a284/lunar_luna/?action=view&current=cafebike.flv

[TwoTired]

550 owners pls tell me if the cams area seems extra noisy to you. 

I tried. It tells me Flash 8 is needed to view it.  Flash 8 won't install on my old Mac.  I can run Mpegs, though.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

550 owners pls tell me if the cams area seems extra noisy to you.

I tried. It tells me Flash 8 is needed to view it.  Flash 8 won't install on my old Mac.  I can run Mpegs, though.

Cheers,

Hi TT,

I converted it to MPG format and uploaded it to a file sharing service.   Hopefully if I did it right you should be able to download it from here.....

http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/112418/cafe-bike-mpg.html

Doug

[bill440cars]

       Hey Doug,

                Congratulations on being able to get things lined out with assistance. We do have some very talented folks here and to be able to talk it out, is a good credit to TT. But, it also takes a person that can take those instructions and put them to use. You also should get some credit for being able to do just that. Myself, while I might be able to solve a problem first hand, I'm not always that good at telling someone else all that kind of detailed info and not being able to see the bike and all. Great job you 2!

                Doug, I couldn't really hear the video myself (My Cheapo pc), for some reason unknown to me, my pc doesn't have much volume. I turned it all the way up on the video and on the toolbar and I didn't really hear anything. I can usually just barely hear things when I do this. Mybe someone else can verify if things sound okay or what ever.

                 Hope you get to log some miles soon!!!

                                                     Later on, Bill

[ludite13]

Hi Doug,
  I'm no expert on these engines, but it it were an automobile I'd say your valve lash is a bit loose.  My 550 doesn't sound like that, but then my valve lash may be too tight.  Like the old saying goes, quiet valves burn.   Maybe I should go check mine.

-James

[ludite13]

Oh Doug,
  I almost forgot.  What a great looking and sounding machine!  VERY NICE!

-James

[doug_id]

Thx Ludite,

When you say lash are you talking valve adjustment being out of whack?   I did two valve adjustments after putting the new cover on....one before running the engine of course and another check afterwards.....I am new at this but I think I did that right.   Maybe it is just a matter of the followers getting used to their new positions on the cam lobes?   I dunno...bike seems to run nice but still worried I have something wrong that is gonna bite me.   

[KB02]

Sounds great at the exhaust!!!

As for the head side, I would double check the tapets and the cam chain adjustment. Sounds almost like you've got tapet that didn't get locked down wheen you did your last adjustment (At least that's what mine sounded like. )

Way to go on the electrics!!!

[doug_id]

Sounds great at the exhaust!!!

As for the head side, I would double check the tapets and the cam chain adjustment. Sounds almost like you've got tapet that didn't get locked down wheen you did your last adjustment (At least that's what mine sounded like. )

Way to go on the electrics!!!

Hi KB....think I locked them down pretty good....but I am gonna check them all again today.  It seems more pronounced on the left side of the bike.  That is the side that I had a hard time getting the header to go in straight.  I wonder if that did not make a good seal with the gasket and maybe that is letting more of the internal sound get out?   I don't see any obvious signs of exhaust gases escaping there though.

When I loosened the nut on the cam chain adjustor the screw did not turn.  So I manually turned it counter clockwise some and retightned the nut.....the adj screw ended up pretty much where it was originally though.   Supposedly the engine only has 8k miles on it so maybe the chain is not needing adjustment?

Thx,
Doug

[TwoTired]

okay, I got a listen to the MPEG.
My first impression is that you have an exhaust leak or two...or four.

Here's a couple methods to isolate the noise source.  These may sound stupid.  But, they are effective at noise isolation.

1) Obtain or select a long screwdriver.  Place the tip of the screwdriver at some interest point on the engine case.  The handle then gets placed in your ear socket.  You can then move the tip around the engine to localize the source of conducted mechanical noise.  The noise will be the loudest near the source.  This may not help locate an exhaust leak due to the nature of the emitted noise.

2) Obtain about 2 ft of some aquarium tubing.  Select a size that fits comfortably just inside your ear canal.  Then go to the hobby shop to find some aluminum or brass tubing that the aquarium tubing will fit onto tightly.  The metal tubing is your probe and the plastic aquarium tubing goes just inside you ear canal.  This device is a monaural stethescope.  It works wonders for locating intake land exhaust leaks.  And, can also be used to isolate mechanical conducted noise as well.


Those crush gaskets are a one time crush only.  If you let the exhaust pipes hang from the cylinder head during installation, the tops of the crush washers get smashed way more than the bottom.  You will need to block up the mufflers to their current position while mating the pipes to the crush gaskets/head.  I made the same mistake when I put original Honda 4 into 4s on my 74.  I had to figure out how they mounted in back and their unsupported weight distorted the crush gaskets in the exhaust outlet before I had the chance to fully tighten the exhaust flanges.  Tightening them afterward didn't fully seal the exhaust.  What a disappointing racket that made.  New crush gaskets fixed that up.
I think that's the same sound I hear from your video.  Since you will likely need to take off the pipes for new crush gaskets, you could do a mock up assembly holding the mufflers in their mounted position, and observing the header flange to head relationship.  If the pipe bends are not right, the flanges won't have a close enough alignment to allow a proper seal with the crush gasket.  The gaskets can only make up about 1/16 inch misalignment.  But, you could stack two gaskets if you need more compliance than that.

Pipes sound good, in my opinion.   
Pity we couldn't hear it rev while the mic was behind the bike.  Cameraman needs longer arms, or a support crew. 

Cheers,

[doug_id]

Hi TT,

Hmmmm I like that theory.   I do know that the left most header pipe did not go in 100% straight and that seems to be the side of the engine where most of the clackity noise is coming from.   The only problem I have with this theory is the engine wasn't making this noise prior to the new cam cover being installed.   I have not messed with the pipes since before I removed the old cover.   It may be like you said earlier the new cam cover with the pinch bolts may produce more/different sound and that may be transmitted more by a poor gasket seal than the old cam cover?........I sure hope your right and it is poor gasket seal....that would be a pretty easy fix.      Thx for the tip on stacking exhaust gasekets.... I think I will do that.

I will put the camera on a tripod today and place behind the engine then rev it     

Thx,
Doug

[doug_id]

Just came home for my lunch break and checked my valve adjustment (one of the benefits of living in a small town  )

About 1/2 of them I found the gap to be to large........  

When the manual says adjust till you feel a drag on the feeler gauge well I guess everyone can interpret a drag in a slightly different way.  I finally got smart and I tried the exhaust feeler gauge (larger) on the intake adjusters.....on a couple of them it slid thru so that told me they were too loose.   So I reset my definition of a slight drag and adjusted all the valves again.   Put the tappet covers back on and fired it up.  I have to say, if it's not my imagination, that the clatering noise has gone down by maybe 30%   .   Before the noise would really jump out at me and just not sound right.  Now, not so much...kind of have to listen for it more.   After I take it for another ride (longer this time) I will check the adjustment one more time.   I still think I will try to addjust the #1 header so it is straighter and put fresh gaskets in there.  That will help quite a bit I hope.

More good news....my new fuel shutoff valves and seats in the carbs are working great....I left the petcock open all night to see what would happen and not a drop of fuel to be found anywhere.....

Doug

[Tvag]

Doug, that video is great. I'm so happy it's all coming together. Nice...

[doug_id]

Thx for the tip Clint,

Yeah, I have been putting oil on the feeler gauges.   Sounds like a good method for locking them down....tugging on feeler gauge and loosening adjusting screw until feeler just starts to move.  By that method I would guess mine are still a tad on the loose side.   Will adjust them again tonight.   

Doug

[TwoTired]

Hey Doug,
Are you aware that the feeler gauge drag felt after lock down is what you need to accomplish?

I also get the drag tight enough that I sometimes need the move the rocker from side to side to allow release of the feeler gauge.

I though of another noise diagnostic technique.  But, it's going to be difficult for you since you don't have the Stop-Run-Stop switch. 
Exhaust leakage noise is only heard when combustion occurs.  Tappet noise occurs whenever the engine is turning.
If you disable the ignition, cranking the engine should produce the same valve noise as when idling but there will be no exhaust pulses.  So, if you still have the noise, it's tappets.  If no noise without the engine actually firing, then it's an exhaust leak.

Cheers,

[cafe75-550]

Doug-

The bike sounds great! I agree with the other posts, sounds like the valve adjustment is a little loose, the noise is too loud, but it doesn't sound abnormal (like somethings broken), just like a loose adjustment. It takes some practice to get the hang of adjusting the valves, Ive done it a few times now and the first couple of times I had to re-do it a few times to get them all equal . Its pretty easy to mess up the adjustment when you're trying to tighten the locking nuts.

Great work on the bike!  

[doug_id]

I also get the drag tight enough that I sometimes need the move the rocker from side to side to allow release of the feeler gauge.

WOW....ok....mine have a ways to go to be that tight.....is it safer to have them a little loose rather than to tight?

I though of another noise diagnostic technique.  But, it's going to be difficult for you since you don't have the Stop-Run-Stop switch. 
Exhaust leakage noise is only heard when combustion occurs.  Tappet noise occurs whenever the engine is turning.
If you disable the ignition, cranking the engine should produce the same valve noise as when idling but there will be no exhaust pulses.  So, if you still have the noise, it's tappets.  If no noise without the engine actually firing, then it's an exhaust leak.

Hmmmm.....that sounds like a good method.   I think I could just pull the spark plug caps off the plugs?

Thx,
Doug

[doug_id]

Doug-

The bike sounds great! I agree with the other posts, sounds like the valve adjustment is a little loose, the noise is too loud, but it doesn't sound abnormal (like somethings broken), just like a loose adjustment. It takes some practice to get the hang of adjusting the valves, Ive done it a few times now and the first couple of times I had to re-do it a few times to get them all equal . Its pretty easy to mess up the adjustment when you're trying to tighten the locking nuts.

Great work on the bike!  

Thx man!

Feel like I am getting very close.    

I will try to post a short vid soon of the pipes with the engine revving.   

Doug

[TwoTired]

I also get the drag tight enough that I sometimes need the move the rocker from side to side to allow release of the feeler gauge.

WOW....ok....mine have a ways to go to be that tight.....is it safer to have them a little loose rather than to tight?

If you can still insert and remove the proper sized feeler gauge, they aren't too tight.  Remember, the tappets must be adjusted when the engine is dead cold.

Hmmmm.....that sounds like a good method.   I think I could just pull the spark plug caps off the plugs?

Yeah, if the snapping doesn't interfere with your listening pleasure.  Or, unplug the coils power.  Or, insert an insulating material between the point contacts.

[kine8282]

Got a chance to look at your vid and wow...that exhaust sounds awesome. I'll try to borrow my buddy's camera and upload how my engine sounds but i havent tinkered with mine at all so its prolly not the best bench mark

[Spikeybike]

doug
 i think the really amazing thing with your project is how fast your moveing....
makes me feel like a slacker. i'm sure im not the only one that thinks that
man..really nice work 

[LoopsAndLogic]

Sounds awesome!!! I don't think we can call you a Noob anymore......

 All you need to do is make sure your adjuster for your cam chain is set properly. The way you do it is, you need to place a rubber hose to your ear, and while the bike is running at idle slowly go down the front/middle of the engine starting at the top, and slowly listen as you go down.

If you hear metallic rattling from the top and bottom, the problem is the chain is worn out or it needs tightening still.

 I know one time, I adjusted my tappets to tight, and mind you, this was my first time, and when the bike was fully warmed up, the bike died. The intake valves were slightly staying open

  Best of luck to you!

[doug_id]

Thx Everyone for the support and encouragement!   

Well, I adjusted the valves for the 3rd time today....doh!   There still is some noise coming from the cams...better than before......some good tips I haven't gotten to yet up thread for checking the cam chain tension and also possible imperfect exhaust gasket seal to the header pipes....I will be checking those out over the next few days.

After the valve adjust I synced carbs as best I know how....seems the readings are always shifting a little bit in relation to each other every time I blip the throttle or tighten down the lock nuts on the carbs   

Good news is my fiber washers arrived today so I high tail it over to the honda dealer and pick them up......sad to say they look almost exactly like the ones I got at the hardware store.   Anyway in the meantime I had picked up some longer mounting bolts from the hardware store as the first pair I had didn't reach all the way into the tank.  I figured the longer ones would have more thread to grab hold of so maybe I could get them a little tighter.  So I install the petcock and sit the tank upright and watch it for a couple of mins......so far so good.....my hopes rise and I decide to go for it!     I then take it and put it on the bike.  Takes me a few mins to get it mounted....then when I go to attach the fuel lines I see fuel dripping from the outlets...@#$@!#         So I quickly put the fuel lines on and then I notice fuel leaking from the area where the petcock "seals" to the tank...this is a new and very unwelcome development 

I resist a sudden urge to hurl the gas tank against the wall and the stupid petcock along with it  and instead calmly pull it off the bike and lay it back down on its side on an old moving blanket and count to 10.  I remove the bowl and proceed to tighten the mounting screws more and more.....at this point I figure it is either gonna seal and work or the fiberglass holding the threaded inserts will tear lose.   I was actually able to get several more turns out of them and they felt like they had gone as far as they were going to go without problems.   So I put the tank upright on two supports with the petcock position over a glass jar and hold my breath...tick tock tick tock tick tock.....just knowing I would see fuel leaking from the top of the petcock....but wait...no nothing (not yet anyway)....wooohoooo!!!.....even the outlets aren't dripping....could it be fixed?!?!       Not sure but at least for the time being it is.   

At this point I am desperate to get a good ride in on this thing.....but thinking of everyone here, I send my son into the house to retrieve the video camera while I get my riding gear on.   

The rest you can watch on the video.....  http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a284/lunar_luna/?action=view&current=cafefirstrun2.flv

I apologize for the somewhat blurry image...it is a camera I am borrowing and maybe the auto focus is off or some other setting I don't know how to get to......Also pls ignore the CRAZY plant lady   

TT and others who have trouble with .wmv files can download a rather large mpeg here...... http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/113099/cafe-first-run2-mpg.html
Just after the end of this video my bike up and dies in the driveway...no electrics....looks the same as when my fuses were blowing in the garage...I haven't popped the sidecover yet to find out for sure.  Anway that is all I got, up and down the street once!!.....waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[doug_id]

Yep, my 7amp fuse blew when I pulled into the driveway......I wonder what the heck caused that   Just when I think it is all sorted out...lol   

Off to get some more fuses.