Topic: A Noob's 75 CB550 Cafe Project Thread ------- Stick a fork in it... ;-)

[Spikeybike]

 Drain the forks.  Remove the fender or fork brace (snicker), and dismount the brake caliper from the fork lower. In the axle mounts of the fork lowers, you'll find an 8mm Allen head bolt. While there is still spring pressure in the forks, break loose but don't remove that bolt.  Remove the fork caps unloading the spring pressure, and then remove that 8MM bolt.  You might need to apply a bit of pressure to the main spring to keep an internal part from spinning with the 8MM bolt.  When the bolt comes off, the fork lower slides off the end of the fork tube giving you access to the fork seal. Sometimes, an inertial impact tool is needed to remove that 8MM bolt.  But, not always. The job can be done in half an hour once it becomes routine. Pity I'm so slow at this. [/color]

Gotta go.  Talk to you later...
Cheers,

now im chooseing my words carefully so not to undermine TT but , i tryed a similar process when i did my seals and TT is right , but it doesnt allways work out that way , the 8mm bolt on my forks just spun no matter how much pressure i put on it , until i took the forks off and turned them upside down (i think its because i was able to use more pressure/leverage  that way) basicly i think you should try TT's way first and if that doesnt work take them off
i was just on the phone with my honda dealer and the tool i was refering to is basicly a long rod you insert into the disassembled fork tube, it has some kind of fork at the end that holds the dampener still so you can turn the 8mm bolt , and of course he didnt know where to get or even who makes it... if i could find some dimensions of one or even a photo i could just fab it myself

[CB360T]

 Drain the forks.  Remove the fender or fork brace (snicker), and dismount the brake caliper from the fork lower. In the axle mounts of the fork lowers, you'll find an 8mm Allen head bolt. While there is still spring pressure in the forks, break loose but don't remove that bolt.  Remove the fork caps unloading the spring pressure, and then remove that 8MM bolt.  You might need to apply a bit of pressure to the main spring to keep an internal part from spinning with the 8MM bolt.  When the bolt comes off, the fork lower slides off the end of the fork tube giving you access to the fork seal. Sometimes, an inertial impact tool is needed to remove that 8MM bolt.  But, not always. The job can be done in half an hour once it becomes routine. Pity I'm so slow at this. [/color]

Gotta go.  Talk to you later...
Cheers,

now im chooseing my words carefully so not to undermine TT but , i tryed a similar process when i did my seals and TT is right , but it doesnt allways work out that way , the 8mm bolt on my forks just spun no matter how much pressure i put on it , until i took the forks off and turned them upside down (i think its because i was able to use more pressure/leverage  that way) basicly i think you should try TT's way first and if that doesnt work take them off
i was just on the phone with my honda dealer and the tool i was refering to is basicly a long rod you insert into the disassembled fork tube, it has some kind of fork at the end that holds the dampener still so you can turn the 8mm bolt , and of course he didnt know where to get or even who makes it... if i could find some dimensions of one or even a photo i could just fab it myself

Take a look at picture #3 here:  http://wagtail.home.att.net/Page8.htm. It is a 3/8" hex drive bit that I ground down on the end to a 30 degree bevel. When it is inserted up into the fork stanchion tube, it jams the nut so you can remove the bolt. Works like the proverbial charm!

[doug_id]

Thx for the info guys!   

Yea... what the heck try it with them left on the bike and like you say can always takem off it that doesn't work.

Stopped by the honda shop and ordered some new seals.

They parts guys know me on sight now   

[doug_id]

Thx TT,

Here is the story on my carbs.   When I got the bike it was running so to me in my noob ways thought....heck the carbs are basically ok.     What I ended up doing was taking the bowls off and then pulling the main jet and the shutoff valve and soaking those seperately in yamaha cleaner.  Then I removed the top covers from the carbs and put the entire rack in a mixture of yamaha cleaner and water for about two days.   The instructions for the inards of the top of the carbs looked scary to me    So, I was hoping they were ok with a soaking.  I then put new o-rings on the main, the shutoff valves, and the float bowls and then thoroughly rinsed everything and dried them by sitting it all in front of a fan....now with my recent problems with the shutoff valves not shutting off I have replaced all of those.  I did get 4 complete kits from Z1.  So I believe those other items you mentioned are in there.   I guess I should go ahead and replace everything?  Even the main jets?

Found the 022A stamped on the carbs.

Is there a way to determine if the runner has an air leak?   

On the air filters......I don't know if they would be considered over oiled or not.   I think what I should do is finish the carb rebuild then see what that does for the plug color.   If still sooty then remove air filter and bathe them in gas to get the oil off then try a real light coating and check the plugs again.   All this assuming the compression check is good.

Compression test....seems nobody in town carries the size I need (12mm)....will have to get on the internet and find one.   Oh, I see z1 has one for $123!   Anybody know where one may be found a little cheaper?   

Thx,
Doug

[Spikeybike]

Compression test....seems nobody in town carries the size I need (12mm)....will have to get on the internet and find one.   Oh, I see z1 has one for $123!   Anybody know where one may be found a little cheaper?   

i got mine at autozone 12mm adapter and all ... check there website

[Spikeybike]

no wait it was pepboys (big differance, right )

[TwoTired]

now im chooseing my words carefully so not to undermine TT but , i tryed a similar process when i did my seals and TT is right , but it doesnt allways work out that way , the 8mm bolt on my forks just spun no matter how much pressure i put on it , until i took the forks off and turned them upside down (i think its because i was able to use more pressure/leverage that way) basicly i think you should try TT's way first and if that doesnt work take them off
i was just on the phone with my honda dealer and the tool i was refering to is basicly a long rod you insert into the disassembled fork tube, it has some kind of fork at the end that holds the dampener still so you can turn the 8mm bolt , and of course he didnt know where to get or even who makes it... if i could find some dimensions of one or even a photo i could just fab it myself

Hey Spikey,
I don't doubt that some forks may need the special tool.  And, I'll bet that it makes the fork disassembly procedure quite straightforward. It's just that I never encountered the special tool or a fork set that absolutely required it.  The only forks that gave me any sort of problem, yielded quickly when the 8mm bolt was driven with a 3/8" pneumatic impact driver I bought for $20 many years ago.  It's not hard to imagine a fork set out there that is an exception case.  I can tell stories of other "simple procedures" that went horribly awry...

Cheers,

[TwoTired]

Hi Doug,

Here is the story on my carbs.   When I got the bike it was running so to me in my noob ways thought....heck the carbs are basically ok.     
Did you examine the spark plugs to see if they were burning fuel evenly in all cylinders?

What I ended up doing was taking the bowls off and then pulling the main jet and the shutoff valve and soaking those seperately in yamaha cleaner.  Then I removed the top covers from the carbs and put the entire rack in a mixture of yamaha cleaner and water for about two days.   The instructions for the inards of the top of the carbs looked scary to me    So, I was hoping they were ok with a soaking. 

Ahh, have you checked that the bike's hope sensor is operating within normal parameters?
Need I point out here that hope is not usually part of a good mechanics credo?  Hope is a feeling/emotion in which machines seldom partake.  They want what they need and won't compromise for anything less. Trust me, there's just no bargaining with them.

 I then put new o-rings on the main, the shutoff valves, and the float bowls and then thoroughly rinsed everything and dried them by sitting it all in front of a fan

How did you thoroughly rinse the small passageways that are drilled into the carb bodies?  Did you use compressed air to verify all those were clean and clear?  It doesn't sound like you pushed out the emulsion tubes that sit behind the main jet either.  Could dirty cleaner solution have gotten to the small passageways and the emulsion tube cavity and not been flushed clean?  Could this contamination have been allowed to dry while still in the passageways?  Did you remove the slow jets for the cleaning?  Did you remove the pilot screws for the cleaning procedure.  Are you considering another carb teardown to verify these things are indeed clean?

....now with my recent problems with the shutoff valves not shutting off I have replaced all of those.  I did get 4 complete kits from Z1.  So I believe those other items you mentioned are in there.   I guess I should go ahead and replace everything?  Even the main jets?

I don't see why. I don't know who manufactured your kits or if they were intended for carbs matching your set up number.  The internal parts can be different among carbs with different set up numbers.  But, I'd be particularly possessive about your Honda slide needles, for now.  You should be able to examine your main and idle jets for damage and cleanliness.  If you do decide to change them, do all four en masse to keep the carbs operating in a similar manner.

Found the 022A stamped on the carbs.
great that tells us what they were like from Honda.  Any info about possible changes from when Honda first sold them? What is your confidence that the slide needles are where Honda adjusted them still.

Is there a way to determine if the runner has an air leak?   
Yes, with the engine idling normally, spray WD-40 or brake cleaner on the joints where the rubber meets metal.  The fluid will make a temporary seal on leaking joints and the idle will change noticeably.

On the air filters......I don't know if they would be considered over oiled or not.   I think what I should do is finish the carb rebuild then see what that does for the plug color.   If still sooty then remove air filter and bathe them in gas to get the oil off then try a real light coating and check the plugs again.   All this assuming the compression check is good.

It is a good plan.  Something else to try is to run temporarily run without the air filters.  1) for mixture and plug color effect. And 2), to see if the plug running colors even out.

Compression test....seems nobody in town carries the size I need (12mm)....will have to get on the internet and find one.   Oh, I see z1 has one for $123!   Anybody know where one may be found a little cheaper?   

Do you already have the compression gauge?  If not then maybe:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2011212/c-10111/Nty-1/p-2011212/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10111/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=compression+tester

I admit I haven't looked for the best deal.  Hey, it's your money!

Cheers,

[doug_id]

Hi Doug,

Ahh, have you checked that the bike's hope sensor is operating within normal parameters?
Need I point out here that hope is not usually part of a good mechanics credo?  Hope is a feeling/emotion in which machines seldom partake.  They want what they need and won't compromise for anything less. Trust me, there's just no bargaining with them.

[/color]

LMAO...TT that cracks me up    .....yes, I admit to relying on hope more than I should.....I tried to count on it to cover for my lack of knowledge and being intimidated by the thought of certain procedures that in retrospect and with more knowledge now were probably not as bad as I imagined them back when I started....so far hope is not doing to well for me... ...so I guess I better let go of it and move on to your more logical strategy.   

I will try the wd40 test tomorrow to see how that goes.   Also I will try running without the filters in the garage to see how that affects the plug color.   After that I will probably put the bike back on the lift and take a shot at removing the lower part of the forks.

Also will track down a compression tester somewhere.

Thx again,
Doug

[doug_id]

no wait it was pepboys (big differance, right )

Thx Spikey,

I tried a few auto shops in town with no luck but there are a couple more I will try tomorrow.   If not then it's the internet to the rescue.   

Doug

[kine8282]

Doug,

Didn't you have to rejet the carbs to compensate for the pipes and the pod filters? Benjie told me that I would have to tweak the jets once I get the pipes...he said to make them richer (I was planning to run the pipes with the stock air filter set up). Not sure if that helps since your bike already looks like its running rich...2 centavos

Kine

[CrisPDuk]

Just got back on line, after being out of wireless range for a few days, and watched the vid clips, the exhaust sounds great, I think I've made the right decision in following your lead there Doug thanks for the inspiration

The tank and seat look awsome, I love the Tank Badge

I can't believe some of you guys have struggled doing your fork seals
I fully rebuilt four front leg assemblies (two black, two polished) in a couple of hours with no special tools needed.
The CB Gods must have been really looking down on me the day I did mine, now I'm wondering what the payback's going to be

[edbikerii]

I just wanted to warn you, doug, that brake cleaner may remove your paint.  Been there, done that.  I'd stick to WD40 or starting fluid to check those intake runners.  There are oring seals on the engine side of those intake runners that dry out and crack.  I replaced mine about 8 years ago.  I've also heard about the rubber boots drying out and leaking.

Didn't you also have a problem getting your carbs mounted properly on those rubber boots (about 30 pages ago or something)?  Did you ever manage to correct that?

Good luck,

Edward

[doug_id]

Doug,

Didn't you have to rejet the carbs to compensate for the pipes and the pod filters? Benjie told me that I would have to tweak the jets once I get the pipes...he said to make them richer (I was planning to run the pipes with the stock air filter set up). Not sure if that helps since your bike already looks like its running rich...2 centavos

Kine

Hi Kine,

Yes, I expected to have to do some re-jetting but I have not done that yet.  Think the first things I am going to try is the wd40 trick looking for air leaks then will try running in the garage with the filters off and then check the plugs.   Also, Benjie e-mailed me and said another thing to check for was a week spark....  Will search the forum to see what I can find on that topic.

Thx,
Doug

[doug_id]

Just got back on line, after being out of wireless range for a few days, and watched the vid clips, the exhaust sounds great, I think I've made the right decision in following your lead there Doug thanks for the inspiration

The tank and seat look awsome, I love the Tank Badge

I can't believe some of you guys have struggled doing your fork seals
I fully rebuilt four front leg assemblies (two black, two polished) in a couple of hours with no special tools needed.
The CB Gods must have been really looking down on me the day I did mine, now I'm wondering what the payback's going to be

Hey Cris,

Yes the pipes do sound great.....on my test rides I have been keeping the revs pretty high just so I could hear them more    .

I hope the CB gods are smiling on my when I do my seals as well   

Doug

[doug_id]

I just wanted to warn you, doug, that brake cleaner may remove your paint.  Been there, done that.  I'd stick to WD40 or starting fluid to check those intake runners.  There are oring seals on the engine side of those intake runners that dry out and crack.  I replaced mine about 8 years ago.  I've also heard about the rubber boots drying out and leaking.

Didn't you also have a problem getting your carbs mounted properly on those rubber boots (about 30 pages ago or something)?  Did you ever manage to correct that?

Good luck,

Edward

Hi Edward,

Yeah was thinking on that last night and decided wd40 sounded like the better of those two options.   I should probably just replace the boots with new,  30+ year old rubber can't be in to good of shape.

Yeah, initially I had trouble mounting the carbs so they were fully seated.....was finally able to get then flush to the boot with some serious tugging.

Thx,
Doug

[Spikeybike]

im totaly off topic here, just had to say "Damn, you guys are up early, ...wait your in idaho, im in chicago (yawn) nevermind)

[Spikeybike]

by the way doug , when your posting a reply , if you scroll down to the lower half of the page you can add quotes from there. so you can add multiple quotes in the same post (didnt know if you knew that)

[doug_id]

by the way doug , when your posting a reply , if you scroll down to the lower half of the page you can add quotes from there. so you can add multiple quotes in the same post (didnt know if you knew that)

Thx for the tip.....no, I didn't know that. 

Just got back from a 40 mile bicycle ride!  I am bushed.   I think my jetting is lean....   The weather here this weekend is freaky warm....more like mid june than mid march.....

I was planning on working on the CB this afternoon but after the ride all I can think of is food and a nap.......

Doug

[edbikerii]

Hi Edward,

Yeah was thinking on that last night and decided wd40 sounded like the better of those two options. I should probably just replace the boots with new, 30+ year old rubber can't be in to good of shape.

Yeah, initially I had trouble mounting the carbs so they were fully seated.....was finally able to get then flush to the boot with some serious tugging.

Thx,
Doug

Well, I don't know, if they don't leak, then why replace them?  They can be softened up a bit with a heat gun if it is hard to install the carbs.  Mine seem fine, and don't leak, at least when I hit them with WD40 with the engine running, my idle doesn't increase.  The o-rings I'm talking about may be more vulnerable because they are located at the mounting surface between the intake runners and the cylinder head, a very high heat area.

Good luck,

Edward

[doug_id]

ruh roh.....so one end of the intake runner is different from the other end?    I just put them back on thinking both ends were the same so I have no idea if I put them on oriented the right way........that would probably be a bad thing I suppose?   

[edbikerii]

ruh roh.....so one end of the intake runner is different from the other end? I just put them back on thinking both ends were the same so I have no idea if I put them on oriented the right way........that would probably be a bad thing I suppose?

Well, I don't know about the rubber runners, I don't think they are different end-to-end (but they might be).  I'm talking about the aluminum intake runners that they connect to.  The aluminum intake manifolds are bolted to the back of the cylinder head.  At that juncture they are sealed to the cylinder head by o-rings.  These o-rings dry out and get hard and no longer seal, causing air leaks and poor running.  But the good news is that the same test can be used there as on the rubber boots.  Simply spray WD40 at the points where the manifolds meet the cylinder head and see if the idle improves.  If it does, then you've got a leak.

[doug_id]

ruh roh.....so one end of the intake runner is different from the other end? I just put them back on thinking both ends were the same so I have no idea if I put them on oriented the right way........that would probably be a bad thing I suppose?

Well, I don't know about the rubber runners, I don't think they are different end-to-end (but they might be).  I'm talking about the aluminum intake runners that they connect to.  The aluminum intake manifolds are bolted to the back of the cylinder head.  At that juncture they are sealed to the cylinder head by o-rings.  These o-rings dry out and get hard and no longer seal, causing air leaks and poor running.  But the good news is that the same test can be used there as on the rubber boots.  Simply spray WD40 at the points where the manifolds meet the cylinder head and see if the idle improves.  If it does, then you've got a leak.

Ah ok...that makes sense.....I will check for air leaks there as well.   

Gawd it would be soooo nice to take today off and work on the bike 

Thx,
Doug

[doug_id]

Put the bike back on the floor jack  and removed the front wheel and the fork sliders in preparation for the new fork seals.   They came off really easy using an impact wrench.   I tried to do it by hand but I found it difficult to put much force on the bolt as the fork legs just tried to turn in my other hand.   I used the boiling in water trick and a large flat head screw driver to pry the old seals out......turned out not to be to hard.

Few pics






Put on my Dyna S today as well.   Once I figure out what names applied to what parts it was really easy.  Why can't they have a pic showing the different part names along with the part itself    To much to ask I suppose.     I just set the plate advance to about the same location as the original plate was.  I still have to get the timing light out get it just right.  But I went ahead and tried to start it.  Fired right up into a nice smooth idle.    I will be interested to see if I notice any changed in my carbon build up issue on my plugs.  I have the dyna coil and replacement wires on the way as well......what the heck 



I also tried letting the bike idle with the uni pod filters removed.   That didn't seem to have any affect on the carbon build up on the plugs so looks like the pods are not over oiled.   I haven't tried the air leak test yet.

Now just waiting for all the parts to come in.

Doug

[Spikeybike]

very nice the gods have shined on you (sorry just saw 300)
thats the only thing left on my long list , a dyna s and coils that is
right on , and well done SPARTAAA!!!!!