Author Topic: Thinking about buying a TIG welder  (Read 11483 times)

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Offline RainCityRider

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Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« on: August 21, 2017, 03:30:11 PM »
So I saw this little buddy at Harbor Freight
https://www.harborfreight.com/240-volt-inverter-arctig-welder-with-digital-readout-62486.html
And it seems like the way to go for a newb.

Not sure how big of an argon tank to get or what regulator. I will be trying to make a seat pan and will try to weld a loop on the back of my frame. I will need some practice and I don't want to have to buy gas every week. Not sure how fast the gas goes.
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Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 03:33:00 PM »
Anyone with experience know what cups work best.
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Offline jgger

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 04:02:05 PM »
If you want to learn to weld, buying a cheap or inferior welder is not the way to go IMHO. If you already have good welding skills you may be able to compensate for a poor performing machine, the other way around is an uphill battle. Harbor Freight is not known for stellar quality tools and it is a crapshoot as to weather that machine will fit your needs.

Before you dive into buying that one maybe others will chime in on how good it is. Or maybe check a few welding shops for trade ins, or lease/rent options. Using quality equipment is so much nicer......but alas-more money too.
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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 04:40:30 PM »
Aside from brands (Lincoln, Miller, etc.), it might also be a good idea for welders to chime in as to minimum desired specs.
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Offline innovativems

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 04:42:10 PM »
Calj is hell of a welder.  He will have great input


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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 10:16:44 PM »
An inexpensive TIG box is fine to learn on, but it's nearly impossible to teach yourself to weld properly, let alone TIG weld. And TIG welding on round tubing that's 0.063 thin, is a major feat.

Now I'm not saying you can't do it, but it's not likely to look good, or be strong.

As for that unit, it only offers Lift Arc and no High Frequency start. That means you must first touch/scratch the surface to initiate the arc. Lots of machines and welders use this method, especially pipe welders when working with stainless. But it is harder for a new welder as you get a lot of contamination on the tungsten and stuck tungstens.

If you want an entry level machine that's easy on the wallet, but has some headroom, buy an Everlasting or Alpha; they're good "off brand" machines with quality features and decent performance.

Cup size is normally anywhere from a 5 (small tight spaces) to an 8 (more open area, walking the cup around tubing). Heck I even use a 12 for stainless steel for the added coverage. Your torch is probably a 17 style, air cooled, rated for 150 amps (WAY MORE than you'll use on the bike frame). Rule of thumb is 1 amp per 0.01 of thickness. So your hoop etc would be welded around 55-65 amps, using the pedal to soften the heat as you go.

Buying a bottle is expensive. Better to open an account a local welding gas shop, pay the annual rental on the bottle, then simply swap the bottle when empty (you pay a gas fee only). An 80cf bottle is good. You'll pay around $50 annually and about $35-45 for a refill. 100% Argon only for DC TIG!

Okay, here's the interesting secret: that machine (and all others like it that are DC only) say not rated for Aluminum. That's because using 100% Argon requires AC current for TIG. However, you can TIG weld aluminum with DC, even Lift Arc, but you MUST use 100% Helium as your gas. So, the annual bottle rental, you swap the Argon tank for Helium, pay the gas difference, and there you go, welding Aluminum too with a DC machine. Bobs your uncle!

On some of the Everlasting and Alpha boxes, you'll also have "pulse TIG" which is very handy for tubing and thin metal. It fluctuates the amps on and off at a tempo and percentage of amps to prevent overheating and blowout. Vey useful when you get rolling.

Other things you'll need: a quality auto darkening hood ($200-$300), gloves, jacket, grinder, flap disks, a silicon carbide wheel on your bench grinder or Dremel to sharpen your tungsten, and about a gazillion other little doodads to roll along. Oh yeah, and filler wire, practice metal, and... and... and...

Ain't welding fun!  ;)

Seriously, it's an absolute blast and once you learn, you will never look at anything again without saying, "I can make that for myself!" Spend the money and time and get one and have at it I say!
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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 10:21:00 PM »
Sorry, something else to add: look on Craigslist in your area. You can find used welding machines all day long. Look for a Miller Maxstar 150 model. It's essentially the same machine as that HF unit but it's a LOT better and might be about the same price. It will also have a wide area of repair services available.

I've got a 13 year old Miller Dynasty that is STILL crushing it ($4k AC/DC TIG box). I recently had it repaired for under $300 to replace a burned out controller and it's good as new. Can't do that with a HFreight unit. And it has over 1600 hours on it.
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Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 01:50:42 PM »
Found one on Craig's list and the guy said he would show me how to use it! He is a retired pipe fitter. Hope it goes well! I will post some practice in a few days. Gotta get a bottle and test metal. I guess the old frame I have that doesn't have a back bone will do. Need some sheet metal for seat pan though.


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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 02:08:42 PM »
TAMTF...


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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 02:29:34 PM »
Is this one worthy?

https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/for/d/tig-welder/6238809786.html
Yeow! Those have been workhorses, Wilbur. But it think you'd do better spending the same $ for something newer and more modern.  :) unless you need 300amps!
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 02:33:43 PM »
I was looking at less than $3 per amp!  8)
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Offline calj737

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 03:38:19 PM »
I was looking at less than $3 per amp!  8)
Here you go-
https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/tls/d/evering-works-is-well-miller/6268521112.html


I'm always leery of those ads where the contact info is superimposed over the picture in the ad and not listed elsewhere in the ad.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
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Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
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Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 04:12:36 PM »
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Offline kmb69

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 04:30:32 PM »
.....
I've got a 13 year old Miller Dynasty that is STILL crushing it ($4k AC/DC TIG box). I recently had it repaired for under $300 to replace a burned out controller and it's good as new. Can't do that with a HFreight unit. And it has over 1600 hours on it.

I'm with you Cal. My Dynasty 350 is the cat's meow!

Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2017, 04:59:41 PM »
Are the HF Accessories good enough?

Helmets, Gloves, and Stuff.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2017, 06:09:28 PM »
That Maxstar should do you well to get you going. Looks like the work cable needs a new end, it should be a Dinse 25mm. Easy enough to replace (you want that in tip-top shape!).
Do yourself a favor and buy a decent, auto-darkening hood. Optrel, Speedglas, Miller or Lincoln with at least 3 sensors. It does make it easier to see the puddle and that is critical when TIG welding. Gloves usually are just decent leather, Tillman brand are very cost effective.

That Maxstar looks to have a 9 style torch on it, and that will work well. Buy Miller brand gas lenses for it- it matters. A #5, #6 and a #7 cup should be all you need, with a 3/32 2% Lanthanted tungsten. Don't worry about any other sizes. Just make sure you specify which torch style (9) you are buying the lenses and cups for.  ;)

Your practice metal needs o be CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN! If you use Brake Kleen, ONLY use the non-chlorinated type. Welding with residue from the chlorinated stuff produces chlorine gas (deadly). And never weld on anything galvanized. Deadly!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2017, 06:11:58 PM »
I'm with you Cal. My Dynasty 350 is the cat's meow!
Yeah it is! My buddy has a new 280 and I covet that damn thing. The new 400 would be a really shop box, but I've got soooooo many other priorities and a running (damn thing won't die  >:( ) 200 so I can't justify it. The waveforms on that 350 must make you light headed with all that blood rushing elsewhere  ;D
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Steve_K

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2017, 03:41:37 PM »
I looked to get one a few years ago, but when I saw it needed 3 phase power to weld.  Maybe there are some that can run one single phase power.
Steve
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2017, 03:49:28 PM »
Cal,you can weld?

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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 07:34:00 PM »
Cal,you can weld?

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Only carbon, stainless and aluminum via Stick, MIG and TIG.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 09:55:44 PM »
So this happened today

I got 1/16 rod. That is what the guy had when I tested it. Should I go bigger? Got the Miller Classic hood $150

Bought a tank, $185. Then 40-50 to trade when it is empty.
The guy sold me a box of 1/8 Tungsten for $50.

My tests weren't too bad. I feel ok with some practice.

Did I do good?


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Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 09:56:41 PM »
Oh, the cart was $45 at HF got some vise grips and magnets there too.


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Offline RainCityRider

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 10:19:11 PM »
What metal should I get to practice?

I have an old CB frame I can cut up.

Thoughts?
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Offline calj737

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Re: Thinking about buying a TIG welder
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2017, 06:16:39 AM »
You did well.

For filler rod, I usually use 3/32" for 90% of steel and aluminum welding. 1/8" can be too big, especially for welding on your frame. The 1/16" will be decent for your hoop, but 3/32 is probably better overall. Buy ER70-S2 wire.

Practice on flat metal. Run stringer beads until you get control of the puddle and filler. Then do lap joints, then filler welds. Then uphill. THEN start practice on tubing. And when you do, get some larger diameter, thicker walled tubing to practice on. I guarantee you that orafting on 0.063 metal you'll blow out or not fuse it as new Welder. If you buy Hot Rolled metal, you need to grind the mill scale off. Cold Rolled is cleaner, but costs more.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis