Author Topic: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.  (Read 15348 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« on: August 23, 2017, 06:26:21 AM »
I don't usually get excited when I hear the cancellation of an American product... wait, who am I kidding? Yes I do. After reported declining sales of their larger motorcycles, Harley Davidson in their infinite wisdom has decided to can the Dyna platform. Bravo!

Let me get this straight, their large cycle sales have dipped and so their brilliant response was to cancel their smallest size big twin? Lolz. This leaves a giant gap between entry level "street" or even 883 motorcycles and an overly expensive softail.

This also makes me wonder if Harley Davidson has become the GM of motorcycles. "Hey guys sales are down, what should we do? I know! Let's dissolve Saturn, one of our better selling platforms."

I love Harley Davidsons. I always have and always will. I hate Harley Davidson as a company. I always have and I always will.

The good news is that if Indians weren't already attractive, this makes a ton of room for a mid sized ride from them. Although, the scout is already more powerful than a sporty and I believe a tad bigger.

Opinions welcome! Let's hash out this amazing strategy to save a brand and welcome new riders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 07:19:05 AM »
so....When I was a kid the only people who bought dyna's were 1%'er and people who wanted to embrace that aspect of the HD lifestyle. The people who wanted "retro" bikes bought softails or sportsters. I have to say I am not sad in the least about the dyna leaving mostly because it was probably the most stoneage platform the motor company had. from 1971 to 1992 the FX (predecessor to the dyna) was basically a parts bin special using the frame and engine of the 1965 FL ElectraGlide and the front parts of an XL sportster. In 1991 they redesigned the FX line into the Dyna chassis but kept that old 1965 rear suspension setup and even deleted some of the rubber mounting (WTF). The Softail may be technically older having been designed in 1984 than the dyna chassis, but it wasn't a parts bin design - it was clean sheet and it has enjoyed a lot of updates over the years.  Sportsters usually take crap for being the HD that goes multiple decades without a significant chassis re-design, but even they had more interesting derivative models like the buell line, xr1200, etc....

I don't think HD is giving anything up by killing the dyna - the bike was a relic and it was the wrong kind of relic. It had turned into the cheap floor model compromise  people who couldn't afford a softail but who shat on sportsters as "Chick bikes". It was "retro" only because it had aged into being retro - it wasn't designed to evoke anything from the past like the heritage softail. The only saving graces it had was for a while it was the big twin least affected by bloat because it was a parts bin special, carried a high profit margin because it was a parts bin special, and got people into big twins who otherwise couldn't afford an HD because their macho ego wouldn't let them even consider a sportster.

The new bike chassis is far and away better than anything the dyna aspired to be. The same familiar models like the low rider and street bob are still going to be there, and still at the same price point, but now they get a monoshock setup that looks like HD robbed the TZ750 parts bin. They get more turning clearance, more accessibility to performance parts, aren't spooky handling anymore, and guess what - HD gets to decrease it's mfg cost by having only once chassis for the big twins so it's profitability margin goes up on all big twin bikes, instead of being centered around the dyna.

Personally, I own an ironhead because if I wanted a retro 1950's bike I might as well own something that actually was designed in the 1950's and feels exactly like it because it didn't change from 1955 to 1978, and that is the cheapest way to do it. Dad owns a 1997 fat boy because he really loved the look of the fat boy and bought one new...oh and also it's way easier to reliably supercharge an EVO fat boy than any earlier HD model. The same people who bought Dyna's before will continue to buy dynas because "sportsters are for chicks", but the only thing that will change is they will actually get a lot more motorcycle technology for the money.

How could it be a bad thing?



Maintenance Matters Most

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 07:46:06 AM »
 My first thought reading your title was that you were switching back to points and condensers  :D :D

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 10:05:03 AM »
My first thought reading your title was that you were switching back to points and condensers  :D :D
Me too!
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,612
  • liverpool
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2017, 10:28:39 AM »
me to !

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 10:38:02 AM »
Me too!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline madmtnmotors

  • When did I get to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,117
  • Sunny Central Florida
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 10:57:46 AM »
Me too!

I have looked closely at the Harley Dyna models and it would likely have been my "introductory" choice for an HD. For the price point it looks more like the Indian Scout instead...
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
Lol you guys!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 12:11:36 PM »
so....When I was a kid the only people who bought dyna's were 1%'er and people who wanted to embrace that aspect of the HD lifestyle. The people who wanted "retro" bikes bought softails or sportsters. I have to say I am not sad in the least about the dyna leaving mostly because it was probably the most stoneage platform the motor company had. from 1971 to 1992 the FX (predecessor to the dyna) was basically a parts bin special using the frame and engine of the 1965 FL ElectraGlide and the front parts of an XL sportster. In 1991 they redesigned the FX line into the Dyna chassis but kept that old 1965 rear suspension setup and even deleted some of the rubber mounting (WTF). The Softail may be technically older having been designed in 1984 than the dyna chassis, but it wasn't a parts bin design - it was clean sheet and it has enjoyed a lot of updates over the years.  Sportsters usually take crap for being the HD that goes multiple decades without a significant chassis re-design, but even they had more interesting derivative models like the buell line, xr1200, etc....

I don't think HD is giving anything up by killing the dyna - the bike was a relic and it was the wrong kind of relic. It had turned into the cheap floor model compromise  people who couldn't afford a softail but who shat on sportsters as "Chick bikes". It was "retro" only because it had aged into being retro - it wasn't designed to evoke anything from the past like the heritage softail. The only saving graces it had was for a while it was the big twin least affected by bloat because it was a parts bin special, carried a high profit margin because it was a parts bin special, and got people into big twins who otherwise couldn't afford an HD because their macho ego wouldn't let them even consider a sportster.

The new bike chassis is far and away better than anything the dyna aspired to be. The same familiar models like the low rider and street bob are still going to be there, and still at the same price point, but now they get a monoshock setup that looks like HD robbed the TZ750 parts bin. They get more turning clearance, more accessibility to performance parts, aren't spooky handling anymore, and guess what - HD gets to decrease it's mfg cost by having only once chassis for the big twins so it's profitability margin goes up on all big twin bikes, instead of being centered around the dyna.

Personally, I own an ironhead because if I wanted a retro 1950's bike I might as well own something that actually was designed in the 1950's and feels exactly like it because it didn't change from 1955 to 1978, and that is the cheapest way to do it. Dad owns a 1997 fat boy because he really loved the look of the fat boy and bought one new...oh and also it's way easier to reliably supercharge an EVO fat boy than any earlier HD model. The same people who bought Dyna's before will continue to buy dynas because "sportsters are for chicks", but the only thing that will change is they will actually get a lot more motorcycle technology for the money.

How could it be a bad thing?
My brother has a 2012 wide glide 103 and it is a fun bike to ride. Although I somewhat agree with what you're saying, the basic sportster design hasn't changed much either. The EVO bikes are in my opinion the best of my generation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Geeto67

  • A grumpy
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 12:43:04 PM »
so....When I was a kid the only people who bought dyna's were 1%'er and people who wanted to embrace that aspect of the HD lifestyle. The people who wanted "retro" bikes bought softails or sportsters. I have to say I am not sad in the least about the dyna leaving mostly because it was probably the most stoneage platform the motor company had. from 1971 to 1992 the FX (predecessor to the dyna) was basically a parts bin special using the frame and engine of the 1965 FL ElectraGlide and the front parts of an XL sportster. In 1991 they redesigned the FX line into the Dyna chassis but kept that old 1965 rear suspension setup and even deleted some of the rubber mounting (WTF). The Softail may be technically older having been designed in 1984 than the dyna chassis, but it wasn't a parts bin design - it was clean sheet and it has enjoyed a lot of updates over the years.  Sportsters usually take crap for being the HD that goes multiple decades without a significant chassis re-design, but even they had more interesting derivative models like the buell line, xr1200, etc....

I don't think HD is giving anything up by killing the dyna - the bike was a relic and it was the wrong kind of relic. It had turned into the cheap floor model compromise  people who couldn't afford a softail but who shat on sportsters as "Chick bikes". It was "retro" only because it had aged into being retro - it wasn't designed to evoke anything from the past like the heritage softail. The only saving graces it had was for a while it was the big twin least affected by bloat because it was a parts bin special, carried a high profit margin because it was a parts bin special, and got people into big twins who otherwise couldn't afford an HD because their macho ego wouldn't let them even consider a sportster.

The new bike chassis is far and away better than anything the dyna aspired to be. The same familiar models like the low rider and street bob are still going to be there, and still at the same price point, but now they get a monoshock setup that looks like HD robbed the TZ750 parts bin. They get more turning clearance, more accessibility to performance parts, aren't spooky handling anymore, and guess what - HD gets to decrease it's mfg cost by having only once chassis for the big twins so it's profitability margin goes up on all big twin bikes, instead of being centered around the dyna.

Personally, I own an ironhead because if I wanted a retro 1950's bike I might as well own something that actually was designed in the 1950's and feels exactly like it because it didn't change from 1955 to 1978, and that is the cheapest way to do it. Dad owns a 1997 fat boy because he really loved the look of the fat boy and bought one new...oh and also it's way easier to reliably supercharge an EVO fat boy than any earlier HD model. The same people who bought Dyna's before will continue to buy dynas because "sportsters are for chicks", but the only thing that will change is they will actually get a lot more motorcycle technology for the money.

How could it be a bad thing?
My brother has a 2012 wide glide 103 and it is a fun bike to ride. Although I somewhat agree with what you're saying, the basic sportster design hasn't changed much either. The EVO bikes are in my opinion the best of my generation.


does the "basic sportster" still exist? Last I checked they are all "specialty" models now like the roadster, the iron, the 48, etc....

Still 100% agree that the basic frame hasn't changed since 2004 when they went rubber mount, and prior to that they were basically unchanged from 1986-2003. Still at least they tried things with the sportster like the xr1200 and the sporty powered buell models. the Dyna was just...well...the dyna.

BTW, have you seen HD's new color "Red Iron Denim"? Only HD could sell a $15K motorcycle painted in red oxide primer and convince people it's "special".
Maintenance Matters Most

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,432
  • Central Texas
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 02:42:20 PM »
My first thought reading your title was that you were switching back to points and condensers  :D :D
Me too!

Too!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline J-Rod10

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 05:05:11 PM »
But, they have this incredible new tech in the new Softy line; A mono shock, and a rigid mounted engine!

Who can pass that ground breaking tech up?

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 07:32:47 PM »
Those new softails look like crap and sound like a shadow twin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline eigenvector

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,949
  • Member of the despondent public
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 08:09:47 PM »
I actually like the new Fat Bobs (well except for the goofy headlight and the obnoxiously large front tire) but beyond that it almost makes the bike look like a street bike instead of (yet another) bagger/cruiser/chopper.

Now if Harley could make a bike with an engine in the 500 to 650cc range I'd be all over it.
Rob
--------------------------------
2018 HD Softail Heritage
1979 CB750K Limited Edition
1977 CB550K
1984 CB700SC Nighthawk
1983 VF750S Sabre

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 05:24:43 AM »
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:28:31 AM by ekpent »

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 05:51:24 AM »
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 05:59:54 AM »
Btw, did Harley write that review themselves?  I don't care what you ride, when you have a 500lb motorcycle and 40tq in a market where torque is the only number you ever mention because the hp number is probably in the 20s, how can you describe the bike as quick?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline USMC5811

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 508
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 08:32:52 AM »
Unless they bring back the XLCR and XR1000 - meh, the models between the Sporty and bagger all look the same to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline BomberMann650

  • Holy Cow! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,441
  • Dr. Bovinestein iBa#80333
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 10:41:59 AM »
I've only seen a few harleys that really piqued my interest.

One stand out was Icon's custom Cafe Racer.  Wherein the only thing making it a harley was the motor.
The others were nearly 100 years old.

Offline Lostboy Steve

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,096
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 12:16:58 PM »
I'm waiting for 2019 when Polaris releases a 2020 scout on its hundred year anniversary. No news about it yet, but it's bound to happen. That will be the first new bike I buy since my 05 Buell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,733
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2017, 03:11:24 PM »
I thought the same thing about the Dyna (ignition), save for the fact that this story has been blowing up on the interwebs.

I wish Harley could make a bike that doesn't weight a bloody ton, makes a little more power and has more modern suspension.  I guess the Roadster is their closest attempt but it still is the same old Sportster motor.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,612
  • liverpool
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2017, 03:37:15 PM »
the sportster motor seemed to work ok in a buell , must be as you say the weight

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,432
  • Central Texas
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2017, 04:03:51 PM »
Hello Dyna!


'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline J-Rod10

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2017, 04:56:40 PM »
the sportster motor seemed to work ok in a buell , must be as you say the weight
Not quite the same engine. There's a reason Sporty guys swap to Buell heads.

Offline BPellerine

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,222
Re: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2017, 05:13:29 PM »
yep,more power,the sporty motors can be taken out to 1400cc,and can make big power,but as with most things it costs money,like the old sohc hondas,I dont wish for alot of changes so things can fit from year to year,they are fun bikes.bill
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob