Topic: Bye Bye Dyna! It's been real.

[Lostboy Steve]

I agree as to prices.

I remember seeing oodles of nearly new HD bikes at the regional auction back in 2009 (vastly outnumbering any other brand) -- repossessions being resold.  I heard that HD kept many stored so that the market for new bikes would not be eroded.

And that seems perfectly inline with their business strategy. How often do they slam the previous model year to push the new one? ...always.

Talking about wobble, my buell would get #$%*ty anywhere over 65 since the day it was new. 3 sets of tires, new bearings, it always did it. You just learned to hang on and get used to it.


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[Lostboy Steve]

"In my opinion the sportster bikes could be Harley's biggest success, but the company is so freaking ignorant that they aren't"

One could argue that they are because of the dozen or so "Dark Custom" versions.
'A rose by any other name is still a rose'



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Yeah but even so, you'd never hear Harley admit that.


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[Geeto67]

I agree as to prices.

I remember seeing oodles of nearly new HD bikes at the regional auction back in 2009 (vastly outnumbering any other brand) -- repossessions being resold.  I heard that HD kept many stored so that the market for new bikes would not be eroded.

I remember the 1990's where HD's were back-ordered for 2 years. Dealer's raped and pillaged anybody looking to buy any kind of special model. I remember dealers getting $20K for new 1993 cow glides, and some after dealer resellers of new bikes getting more. It wasn't because of dealer's holding back inventory - Harley just wasn't tooled up for the demand. They caught up to the back long by the late 1990's but the demand lasted pretty much to 2008.

Harley's Dealer's are the brand's own worst enemy. I remember the old Hempstead Harley location in Long Island in the late 1990's used to install $2K retail worth of chrome on every single bike in their show room. Wanted a bike? had to spend and extra $2K for that chrome and they made a profit on every single piece. If you wanted it removed you had to pay them to remove it and replace with the stock part at stock part MSRP (even though they had a pile of "new takeoff's" in the back. Dealer had no problem rolling all that crap into the financing too and more.

They also sold buell but sold anybody interested in one into a sportster. I remember seeing the tube framed buells on the showroom floor and the sales man caught me looking and said "you don't want that kid, that's a faggot's bike". To this day I love buells and despise harley culture.

I don't think HD financial stored bikes intentionally. When it comes to collection practices, HD financial rivals pre-ghost Ebeneezer Scrooge for ethics, and they got sued a lot in the post financial crisis environment for some pretty shady practices. lawsuits can tie up the collateral. They are fond of the low account balance repo - having famously repo-ed a bike for a $10 late fee that it is questionable they notified the customer about. I think they just settled a government fine for bad practices that go back a decade. As for the other used repo-ed bikes some dealers almost act like a buy here pay here used car lot - extending credit to high risk individuals through local financial institutions, then repo-ing the item a couple months later and reselling it. The dealer gets the finance referral fee and gets to sell the bike over and over at a profit, the financial institution gets a really high interest rate payment for a couple of months, and doesn't suffer depreciation on the asset so they get the money back from the recovery of the bike, and the buyer with crappy credit gets to ride a harley for the summer and then it gets repo-ed without much damage to his credit rating because his credit rating is already in the toilet. 

[Lostboy Steve]

I'll take a moo-glide please. Seriously, I love that bike.

I equate Harley dealers to Guitar Centers. Filled with "to cool for you" douchebags and over priced equipment.

Harley themselves are no better though. "Here's a sportster 72 or 48, that'll be 2k extra please." Did the original sportster mag wheel not have any value? I don't understand. Theoretically going from that mag wheel to a spoked wheel should cheapen the cost of the bike.


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[BomberMann650]

Holy #$%* Geeto did the salesman really say the word "faggot" on the pitch?!?!

God damn!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I agree as to prices.

I remember seeing oodles of nearly new HD bikes at the regional auction back in 2009 (vastly outnumbering any other brand) -- repossessions being resold.  I heard that HD kept many stored so that the market for new bikes would not be eroded.

I remember the 1990's where HD's were back-ordered for 2 years. Dealer's raped and pillaged anybody looking to buy any kind of special model. I remember dealers getting $20K for new 1993 cow glides, and some after dealer resellers of new bikes getting more. It wasn't because of dealer's holding back inventory - Harley just wasn't tooled up for the demand. They caught up to the back long by the late 1990's but the demand lasted pretty much to 2008.

Harley's Dealer's are the brand's own worst enemy. I remember the old Hempstead Harley location in Long Island in the late 1990's used to install $2K retail worth of chrome on every single bike in their show room. Wanted a bike? had to spend and extra $2K for that chrome and they made a profit on every single piece. If you wanted it removed you had to pay them to remove it and replace with the stock part at stock part MSRP (even though they had a pile of "new takeoff's" in the back. Dealer had no problem rolling all that crap into the financing too and more.

They also sold buell but sold anybody interested in one into a sportster. I remember seeing the tube framed buells on the showroom floor and the sales man caught me looking and said "you don't want that kid, that's a faggot's bike". To this day I love buells and despise harley culture.

I don't think HD financial stored bikes intentionally. When it comes to collection practices, HD financial rivals pre-ghost Ebeneezer Scrooge for ethics, and they got sued a lot in the post financial crisis environment for some pretty shady practices. lawsuits can tie up the collateral. They are fond of the low account balance repo - having famously repo-ed a bike for a $10 late fee that it is questionable they notified the customer about. I think they just settled a government fine for bad practices that go back a decade. As for the other used repo-ed bikes some dealers almost act like a buy here pay here used car lot - extending credit to high risk individuals through local financial institutions, then repo-ing the item a couple months later and reselling it. The dealer gets the finance referral fee and gets to sell the bike over and over at a profit, the financial institution gets a really high interest rate payment for a couple of months, and doesn't suffer depreciation on the asset so they get the money back from the recovery of the bike, and the buyer with crappy credit gets to ride a harley for the summer and then it gets repo-ed without much damage to his credit rating because his credit rating is already in the toilet.

I remember dropping off a buddy to a HD dealership (picking up his bike from service) in 2001-ish.  I was looking at the Buell (I had not seen one on the road) and a salesperson immediately tried to steer me to a HD.

[Geeto67]

Holy #$%* Geeto did the salesman really say the word "faggot" on the pitch?!?!

God damn!

yup.  I wouldn't have said it if he didn't. It stuck with me. It was about 1997 or so, and they had three on the showroom floor. They sat there all year like they were nailed there.

That old harley culture was really kind of weird. I remember going to toy runs on the back of Dad's 1986 ZX1000A1 Ninja in the late 80's and we'd be the only Japanese bike in the parking lot. A lot of parking lot tough guys would give him crap over it but they never did nothing...it was always "because it's a charity run" and not a rally as the excuse. Well no kidding, you think we were nuts enough to show up at a rally?  I've seen my fair share of burned UJMs too, and it was always "we stole it from the parking lot" when really it was a broken worthless cb175 someone had sitting in the back of their garage forever. There were some hard as coffin nail dudes that you didn't mess with and they wouldn't mess with you and then there were some guys just playing "biker"...come to think of it maybe it isn't that much different than today. But they just didn't "tolerate" japanese bikes. 

[Geeto67]

I'll take a moo-glide please. Seriously, I love that bike.

I equate Harley dealers to Guitar Centers. Filled with "to cool for you" douchebags and over priced equipment.

Harley themselves are no better though. "Here's a sportster 72 or 48, that'll be 2k extra please." Did the original sportster mag wheel not have any value? I don't understand. Theoretically going from that mag wheel to a spoked wheel should cheapen the cost of the bike.

So it's funny, because I am waiting for "seventy-twos" to get cheap enough. They remind me of the old ironhead choppers that used to cruise Francis Lewis blvd int he 80's and 90's, but without all the death trap mods. I almost pulled the trigger on one in 2015 at xmas time because it was a leftover and was offered to me at wholesale. At $9500 new I'm in all day long, but $12K for a sporty? I'll wait for used. My wife felt differently and wasn't in at any price, esp when we had a car to replace.

I feel like you can sometimes find a gem at a guitar center if you know how instruments are put together and should sound. I can't say the same for an HD dealer - except for their used non HD inventory.

It is interesting you bring up the original "sportster mag wheel". The first ones were made by morris and emulated what everyone was using in racing. It was a huge deal for the XLCR to have them on it from the factory and actually gave it some undeserved performance credit. The problem is that they then used that same design from 1977 till the early 2000's, and like anything fashionable it went through periods of going in and out of style. And they got used on the big twins as well, so they made hundreds of thousands of sets. When something is not rare, and not all that pretty by modern fashion standards, and kind of ubiquitous it gets taken for granted. Do they work? yup, are they better than spokes? I think so, but everyone else has them as well and they don't have the look and the look is what matters.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Plus you can do really dangerous stunt jumps with a HD! This is heavy bike, son!

[USMC5811]

"In my opinion the sportster bikes could be Harley's biggest success, but the company is so freaking ignorant that they aren't"

One could argue that they are because of the dozen or so "Dark Custom" versions.
'A rose by any other name is still a rose'



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Yeah but even so, you'd never hear Harley admit that.


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LOL - HD has just now b a r e l y admitted that MEN ride Sporties.
Baby steps, my man. Baby steps.


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[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, I always laugh when I see the "Girls Bike" thing from big twin owners, when my 1994 XLH rolled off the showroom floor it had 3 more BHP than an 80 cube Dyna, with 50% less weight. Girls must like to go fast.....

[USMC5811]

Ha ha, I always laugh when I see the "Girls Bike" thing from big twin owners, when my 1994 XLH rolled off the showroom floor it had 3 more BHP than an 80 cube Dyna, with 50% less weight. Girls must like to go fast.....

Fast girls are more fun


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[Lostboy Steve]

I'll take a moo-glide please. Seriously, I love that bike.

I equate Harley dealers to Guitar Centers. Filled with "to cool for you" douchebags and over priced equipment.

Harley themselves are no better though. "Here's a sportster 72 or 48, that'll be 2k extra please." Did the original sportster mag wheel not have any value? I don't understand. Theoretically going from that mag wheel to a spoked wheel should cheapen the cost of the bike.

So it's funny, because I am waiting for "seventy-twos" to get cheap enough. They remind me of the old ironhead choppers that used to cruise Francis Lewis blvd int he 80's and 90's, but without all the death trap mods. I almost pulled the trigger on one in 2015 at xmas time because it was a leftover and was offered to me at wholesale. At $9500 new I'm in all day long, but $12K for a sporty? I'll wait for used. My wife felt differently and wasn't in at any price, esp when we had a car to replace.

I feel like you can sometimes find a gem at a guitar center if you know how instruments are put together and should sound. I can't say the same for an HD dealer - except for their used non HD inventory.

It is interesting you bring up the original "sportster mag wheel". The first ones were made by morris and emulated what everyone was using in racing. It was a huge deal for the XLCR to have them on it from the factory and actually gave it some undeserved performance credit. The problem is that they then used that same design from 1977 till the early 2000's, and like anything fashionable it went through periods of going in and out of style. And they got used on the big twins as well, so they made hundreds of thousands of sets. When something is not rare, and not all that pretty by modern fashion standards, and kind of ubiquitous it gets taken for granted. Do they work? yup, are they better than spokes? I think so, but everyone else has them as well and they don't have the look and the look is what matters.

I really dig the 72 for the same reason but again, they treat us like we're naive fools. (As do most large companies these days.)




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[USMC5811]

I'll take a moo-glide please. Seriously, I love that bike.

I equate Harley dealers to Guitar Centers. Filled with "to cool for you" douchebags and over priced equipment.

Harley themselves are no better though. "Here's a sportster 72 or 48, that'll be 2k extra please." Did the original sportster mag wheel not have any value? I don't understand. Theoretically going from that mag wheel to a spoked wheel should cheapen the cost of the bike.

So it's funny, because I am waiting for "seventy-twos" to get cheap enough. They remind me of the old ironhead choppers that used to cruise Francis Lewis blvd int he 80's and 90's, but without all the death trap mods. I almost pulled the trigger on one in 2015 at xmas time because it was a leftover and was offered to me at wholesale. At $9500 new I'm in all day long, but $12K for a sporty? I'll wait for used. My wife felt differently and wasn't in at any price, esp when we had a car to replace.

I feel like you can sometimes find a gem at a guitar center if you know how instruments are put together and should sound. I can't say the same for an HD dealer - except for their used non HD inventory.

It is interesting you bring up the original "sportster mag wheel". The first ones were made by morris and emulated what everyone was using in racing. It was a huge deal for the XLCR to have them on it from the factory and actually gave it some undeserved performance credit. The problem is that they then used that same design from 1977 till the early 2000's, and like anything fashionable it went through periods of going in and out of style. And they got used on the big twins as well, so they made hundreds of thousands of sets. When something is not rare, and not all that pretty by modern fashion standards, and kind of ubiquitous it gets taken for granted. Do they work? yup, are they better than spokes? I think so, but everyone else has them as well and they don't have the look and the look is what matters.

I really dig the 72 for the same reason but again, they treat us like we're naive fools. (As do most large companies these days.)




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The XLCR was my first motorcycle (HD or any other nameplate) Object d' Lust. If I ever hit those 7 magic numbers....


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[Terry in Australia]

I think I'm jealous of Geeto's Sporty, I wish I still had my 1984 XLH1000..........

IMG_7236 by Geeto67, on Flickr

[Geeto67]

I think I'm jealous of Geeto's Sporty, I wish I still had my 1984 XLH1000..........

IMG_7241

thanks Terry! What do you think of the paint? I did it in a garbage can (not kidding).

Ironheads in america are two things:

1) the cheapest way to have a 1950's motorcycle experience
2) A great final exam to test how good of a home mechanic you are.

They are literally despised by everyone. Big Twin people hate them because they are sportsters, Old bike guys hate them because they are usually traps filled with problems, mechanics hate them because they are often cobbled together and abused and a lot of parts are NLA, and dealers hate them because they are so cheap you can't make any money off them. I actually use the bike as a litmus test for talking to people about bikes: If I tell them I have an old ironhead and they don't respond with disgust, then I know I am talking to someone that doesn't know about bikes, LOL.

And yet they carry almost all of HD's modern performance legacy. Funny how that is. 

They are so cheap they often serve as "my first harley" for people that really have no business working on motorcycles.  I traded a running 1973 cb750 for my 1974 and I think the guy got the better deal. If you can't find a running one for $1500 you aren't trying. Mine was wired end to end with brown lamp cord. Every wire. It burned up on it's first ride over 15 minutes. I've probably sunk $5K in parts in the thing and if I put it on CL right now would struggle to get $3500. But that's ok, it's one of the most fun bikes to ride I have ever owned and I have no intention of ever selling.

[Lostboy Steve]

I think I'm jealous of Geeto's Sporty, I wish I still had my 1984 XLH1000..........

IMG_7241

thanks Terry! What do you think of the paint? I did it in a garbage can (not kidding).

Ironheads in america are two things:

1) the cheapest way to have a 1950's motorcycle experience
2) A great final exam to test how good of a home mechanic you are.

They are literally despised by everyone. Big Twin people hate them because they are sportsters, Old bike guys hate them because they are usually traps filled with problems, mechanics hate them because they are often cobbled together and abused and a lot of parts are NLA, and dealers hate them because they are so cheap you can't make any money off them. I actually use the bike as a litmus test for talking to people about bikes: If I tell them I have an old ironhead and they don't respond with disgust, then I know I am talking to someone that doesn't know about bikes, LOL.

And yet they carry almost all of HD's modern performance legacy. Funny how that is. 

They are so cheap they often serve as "my first harley" for people that really have no business working on motorcycles.  I traded a running 1973 cb750 for my 1974 and I think the guy got the better deal. If you can't find a running one for $1500 you aren't trying. Mine was wired end to end with brown lamp cord. Every wire. It burned up on it's first ride over 15 minutes. I've probably sunk $5K in parts in the thing and if I put it on CL right now would struggle to get $3500. But that's ok, it's one of the most fun bikes to ride I have ever owned and I have no intention of ever selling.

Awesome swirl job!



I did this game boy with a textured swirl for my brother.

I love swirl jobs.


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[754]

The other swirl job is a lot lumpier than the bike paint.. nice and smooooth.
So it's an XLH right, no kicker ? So your knee still works ?

[Desert-SOHC]

I guy that I knew bought his wife an 883 with a 1200 hipo kit on it, she could smoke his Softail...he wasn't very happy about that.  That was the only Sporty I've ridden and it was purdy dang fast and REALLY flickable.

[Geeto67]

Awesome swirl job!



I did this game boy with a textured swirl for my brother.

I love swirl jobs.

considering the number of colors at play that's pretty nice.

The other swirl job is a lot lumpier than the bike paint.. nice and smooooth.
So it's an XLH tight no kicker ? So your knee still works ?

yup, it's electric leg only. Let it deal with the hyper extension, LOL.

It's like the old joke says: how can you spot an ironhead rider? look for the limp.

The swirl is buried under a mountain of clear coat. It didn't lay 100% smooth coming out of the garbage can filled with water. It still needs a cut and buff to be up to the level of a factory paint job in terms of finish and gloss , but you can run your hand over it and not feel any lumps.

[Lostboy Steve]

Awesome swirl job!



I did this game boy with a textured swirl for my brother.

I love swirl jobs.

considering the number of colors at play that's pretty nice.

The other swirl job is a lot lumpier than the bike paint.. nice and smooooth.
So it's an XLH tight no kicker ? So your knee still works ?

yup, it's electric leg only. Let it deal with the hyper extension, LOL.

It's like the old joke says: how can you spot an ironhead rider? look for the limp.

The swirl is buried under a mountain of clear coat. It didn't lay 100% smooth coming out of the garbage can filled with water. It still needs a cut and buff to be up to the level of a factory paint job in terms of finish and gloss , but you can run your hand over it and not feel any lumps.

Thanks. Yeah I was going to clear it and get it smooth but one of the colors I used had a strange reaction and it turned out like this. Good for a gameboy. I've had better success in the past.


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[Terry in Australia]

I think I'm jealous of Geeto's Sporty, I wish I still had my 1984 XLH1000..........

IMG_7241

thanks Terry! What do you think of the paint? I did it in a garbage can (not kidding).

Ironheads in america are two things:

1) the cheapest way to have a 1950's motorcycle experience
2) A great final exam to test how good of a home mechanic you are.

They are literally despised by everyone. Big Twin people hate them because they are sportsters, Old bike guys hate them because they are usually traps filled with problems, mechanics hate them because they are often cobbled together and abused and a lot of parts are NLA, and dealers hate them because they are so cheap you can't make any money off them. I actually use the bike as a litmus test for talking to people about bikes: If I tell them I have an old ironhead and they don't respond with disgust, then I know I am talking to someone that doesn't know about bikes, LOL.

And yet they carry almost all of HD's modern performance legacy. Funny how that is. 

They are so cheap they often serve as "my first harley" for people that really have no business working on motorcycles.  I traded a running 1973 cb750 for my 1974 and I think the guy got the better deal. If you can't find a running one for $1500 you aren't trying. Mine was wired end to end with brown lamp cord. Every wire. It burned up on it's first ride over 15 minutes. I've probably sunk $5K in parts in the thing and if I put it on CL right now would struggle to get $3500. But that's ok, it's one of the most fun bikes to ride I have ever owned and I have no intention of ever selling.

Ha ha, thanks mate, I might have to import one, people here are still asking silly prices for them, more than I paid for my 2 year old XLH1000 when I bought it in 1987! As you've mentioned, there are those turkeys who think that owning a Harley instantly makes them a Harley mechanic, so most of these bikes have been pulled apart and "rebuilt" by folks who shouldn't be allowed to own tools.

That's why I love my '94 XLH1200. The PO bought it new in the US, rode it around and imported it into Oz when it was only a month old, and I don't know why, but when I bought it in 2015 it only had 4000 miles on the odometer. I had it serviced by the Harley shop in Canberra before I rode it and they couldn't believe that a 21 year old bike had been pretty much untouched from new, and was just having it's second service!

Anyway, importing an old bike to Oz isn't that expensive, so if I can find a nice clean XLH or XLCH on ebay or CL etc, I think will. (I'm supposed to be "thinning the herd" so I might have to sell off a few first) Oh and yep, I like that paint, very cool! Cheers, Terry.