Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K (Read 41679 times)

medic09 · « **Reply #250 on:** July 20, 2007, 09:41:55 AM »

Looks great!

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #251 on:** July 20, 2007, 09:57:30 AM »

'fraid I can't help you with the fork seals, but I gota say, with that original looking tank, the uncut seat and those four SWEET looking megaphones hanging there, you are going to end up with a very respectable scoot!

Keep up the good work, man!

Tvag · « **Reply #252 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:01:01 AM »

I'll assume those metal disks are something needed for other makes and model bikes then. Screw 'em.

On a side note, last night I went out to get some scotch bright wheels for my Dremel so as to clean up the little niches in my aluminum forks I can't get to with the pads. When I came home my Dremel did not function right and eventually stop working altogether, it's only 2 years old and I've taken care of it well. I was pissed... I don't have the money to replace it, so with some new found confidence from working on my bike I took it to the garage and opened it up to see if I could repair it. After examining it, pulling it half apart and cleaning it, I reassembled the stupid thing and wouldn't you know it... it's working again. This may seem like a stupid anecdote, but for me it was a huge accomplishment because 6 months ago I would have just tossed the thing in the trash and sulked. My investment in this bike is already paying off in other areas of my life. But even better I can now finish up polishing my lower fork legs tonight and maybe install the forks seals.

mmtsquid · « **Reply #253 on:** July 24, 2007, 06:30:21 AM »

Tvag, I completely understand where you're coming from!
I wouldn't even change the oil in my car 4 months ago, but now I do all the maintenence on everything myself!

Working on my little bike has given me lots of confidence when it comes to fixing things!

medic09 · « **Reply #254 on:** July 24, 2007, 07:00:32 AM »

Working on mine has given me confidence in breaking things...

Tvag · « **Reply #255 on:** July 24, 2007, 07:18:15 AM »

Quote from: medic09 on July 24, 2007, 07:00:32 AM

Working on mine has given me confidence in breaking things...

Ha! I just laughed my @ss off... thanks.

Tvag · « **Reply #256 on:** July 26, 2007, 06:13:25 AM »

Fork seals are in! The first went in without a hitch, everything flush and even. The second one was going in a tad crooked so I had a little more trouble with that one. I had to tap one side down to catch up with the other. The discrepancy was very slight but still made me nervous. I'll fill them up tonight and test for leaks. But before I do, can I use gas to flush out any crap within the fork? I thought I read that on the forum somewhere and wanted to get some gunk out of the innards using this technique if others endorsed it. I didn't know if this would be bad for the new fork seals or just a bad practice altogether.

Polished up the aluminum really nice also. Went down to 400 sandpaper. They look nice. Pics soon.

Tvag · « **Reply #257 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:30:05 PM »

Noticed yesterday after assembling the entire front end that the left fork was seeping ATF. Luckily it wasn't from the fork seals... it was from the hex bolt at the bottom. So I disassembled everything again and this time used thread locker and a bit more torque to get the hex bolt back in. Hope that holds. Reassembled...

New problem with the front end... you guessed it, brakes. The brakes are sticking. I've read a couple posts to see what some solutions could be and I'll do a couple things to see if I can determine the problem (ie crack the bleeder to relieve pressure, etc.) If you recall I already disassembled and cleaned the master cylinder, piston, and caliper. It was working fine before I pulled the forks. My brother 'accidentally' squeezed the brake lever when the brakes were off so... that didn't help I'm sure.

Edit: Found out today a friend of a friend is buying a Harley. We talk from time to time and he's had an old KAW for a year or two now. Since he's buying the Harley he's giving me the KAW for free to practice riding on... Ordered my helment today. Don't worry guys... I love my CB550... I'm won't forget about her... I'm in too deep now! But this will give me an opportunity to get some riding in this season and sate some of my cravings!

HJC AC-12

Tvag · « **Reply #258 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:33:45 AM »

Ok... about the brakes. Upon cracking open the bleeder, the preasure was NOT relieved. The pad remained stuck in contact with the rotor. Being diligent, and having read other posts in this forum, this often means that there is not a problem with the caliper... but a problem with the master cylinder, brake lines, or connections. I took a look at the MC and have the following observations:

1. Both holes in the MC are clear and functioning.
2. There is brake fluid visible in the crevaces around the lever as it rests inside the housing.

So, from my deduction, the MC is compromised. Is it a good bet that I'll need a true rebuild or a new MC?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #259 on:** July 31, 2007, 06:59:57 AM »

Tvag,

The pressure was not relieved either because the bleeder is plugged or there was no pressure TO relieve. I may be wrong (often am) but if a bad master is the cause of a non-retracting caliper, it's because it will not releave pressure when the brake lever is released. If both holes int he master are clear and functioning, then I have to believe that the master is releasing pressure following a squeeze and release.

Maybe crack open a banjo fitting to see if there truly is pressure.

Tvag · « **Reply #260 on:** July 31, 2007, 07:20:54 AM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 31, 2007, 06:59:57 AM

Tvag,

The pressure was not relieved either because the bleeder is plugged or there was no pressure TO relieve. I may be wrong (often am) but if a bad master is the cause of a non-retracting caliper, it's because it will not releave pressure when the brake lever is released. If both holes int he master are clear and functioning, then I have to believe that the master is releasing pressure following a squeeze and release.

Maybe crack open a banjo fitting to see if there truly is pressure.

So step two is to crack either the banjo fitting at the MC or at the joint under the headlight and see if that solves the problem? I'll try that tonight. And if that does not relieve the preassure what can I look to try next to deduce the issue?

dagersh · « **Reply #261 on:** July 31, 2007, 08:38:18 AM »

TVAG,

I had the same problem with the brake on my 550F. There was fluid leaking from around the hand lever. I took apart my M/C and caliper this past weekend, and naturally the plunger and internals were corroded. I can't remember if you have already rebuilt the internals on your M/C - but if you have not, its definitely time. I just ordered the rebuild kit, and will hopefully have it all together this coming weekend.

I did soak the body of the M/C in Lime/Rust/Hard Water remover, and man, it came out clean! I then went through the M/C resevoir and the inside of the caliper with WD-40 and a crushed up ball of Tin Foil just to get them as clean as possible. The Tin foil is much softer than the metal of the of the components, so there is no danger of leaving scratched behind. As an added bonus, the Foil can be shaped to really get into the groove which holds the piston seal inside the caliper and does a great job of getting the gunk out of it. I then tested the clearance of the breather holes with a couple of shots of Brake cleaner.

When you pull the internals of the M/C, the circlip is a real PITA. I have the much recommended Motion Pro pliers, but they were not much help due to the fact that there was another clip that I missed getting out (it is circular with a piece missing from it, and it holds the rubber end cap on - it did not come out when I pulled off the rubber end cap!). However, with patience and a pick I was able to remove the circlip. Keeping the plunger depressed while doing all this makes life much easier. To do this, I put the Lever bolt back into the body of the M/C and use it as a fulcrum to depress the plunger. You could also just use a thin enough socket extender, or anything else. It is a bit awkward, but patience will prevail.

Anyway - I was just psyched that I was able to do actually do it after reading about it and stressing about it for all these long months here on the forum! So I hope none of this is old hat and that it will get you further along in your amazing build.

Keep us posted!

Gersh

TwoTired · « **Reply #262 on:** July 31, 2007, 09:43:41 AM »

One of the holes in the MC is a pressure relief hole. If the actuating plunger does not retract completely, the relief hole can remain blocked, and pressure can remain in the system.
Cracking a banjo should release the caliper piston pressure.

Regardless, if the master is weeping fluid, it needs ohaul, hopefully before fluid seeps into the control pod and disintegrates the starter switch plastic.

I have also experienced Rubber brake line failure, where a flap formed inside the hose. It acted as a one way valve to prevent caliper piston pressure release. Cracking open the banjo bolts in the path was how the bad hose was isolated.

Be aware, Dot 3 brake fluid eats paint.

Cheers,

Tvag · « **Reply #263 on:** July 31, 2007, 12:28:14 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on July 31, 2007, 09:43:41 AM

One of the holes in the MC is a pressure relief hole. If the actuating plunger does not retract completely, the relief hole can remain blocked, and pressure can remain in the system.
Cracking a banjo should release the caliper piston pressure.

Regardless, if the master is weeping fluid, it needs ohaul, hopefully before fluid seeps into the control pod and disintegrates the starter switch plastic.

I have also experienced Rubber brake line failure, where a flap formed inside the hose. It acted as a one way valve to prevent caliper piston pressure release. Cracking open the banjo bolts in the path was how the bad hose was isolated.

Be aware, Dot 3 brake fluid eats paint.

Cheers,

Thanks TT. I'm hoping to find the issue before I totally disassemble the MC again but I know it's going to come to that of course.

Tvag · « **Reply #264 on:** August 06, 2007, 12:12:54 PM »

Quote

Found out today a friend of a friend is buying a Harley. We talk from time to time and he's had an old KAW for a year or two now. Since he's buying the Harley he's giving me the KAW for free to practice riding on... Ordered my helmet today. Don't worry guys... I love my CB550... I'm won't forget about her... I'm in too deep now! But this will give me an opportunity to get some riding in this season and sate some of my cravings!

Got some more info on the new bike I'm getting. Turns out he's got a 1979 Kawasaki Z400G with 50K on her. Don't worry... Don't worry... I love my CB. This Kaw will be my red headed step child. And will make me all that more patient in bringing my CB back to life properly.

Tonight I'm going to start reassembling my CB's rear. Hope I took good notes.

Tvag · « **Reply #265 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:42:43 AM »

Well, got the rear end reassembled minus the chain and rear brake. I can't believe how different it looks now that it's 80% back together again. Much improved since last time the bike was at this point! I'll have pics tonight or tomorrow. I should be able to start with compression testing tonight or tomorrow. Now, to find a thread that lists the process.

One more thing, now that I have the bike rolling again I tested my forks and they appear to be good. The only problem is I feel like I didn't put enough ATF into them. The manual said to put in 5.6 oz so I did... But I remember reading posts about filling them up to about 5 or 6 inches from the top. With 5.6oz's I'm no where near that amount. Any help on this?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #266 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:50:22 AM »

Tvag,

Here is a thread on compression testing. Read it in it's entirety as the procedure changed during the course of the thread.

Pay particularly close attention to steps 9 and 10!

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=17516.0

TwoTired · « **Reply #267 on:** August 08, 2007, 12:02:12 PM »

The K3 has the same forks as my 77 cb550F. Owners manual says 4.8-4.9 oz at refill. For dry assembly add .2 oz per side.

I found ATF too soft for my liking and switched to fork oil 10 or 15 weight viscosity. You can also firm up the front by over filling, which leaves less air inside during compression.
Adjust to your riding taste. If the front end is bottoming out in bumps either add more oil or switch to a stiffer oil weight.

Cheers,

Tvag · « **Reply #268 on:** August 09, 2007, 07:59:39 AM »

Ok some updated pics of my progress as promised:

Honestly, my camera produces pics that just don't give justice to the improvements. Now that the bike is rolling I'll try to get it outside and take some pics in natural light. Eitherway... here's the before and after...

Here is a closer look at the improvements I made cleaning the lower fork legs. I damaged one of my forks when prying out the seal

. The gouges were slight but I had a spare set of '76 550F forks so I used them instead. This is a pic of the F forks next to the K forks after they've been sanded and cleaned up.

Here are some pics of the effort.

Well, not that impressive compared to other posts on the site, but she's still a work in progress. I'm just glad to have her most the way put back together again. On to re-attaching the pipes and hopefully running a compression test this evening.

WJL75 · « **Reply #269 on:** August 09, 2007, 08:23:29 AM »

Keep up the good work and the posts. This is a thread many of us have been following for a long time, and I am glad that you post updates as often as you do. The bike looks better every time it's updated. Keep it up!

Tvag · « **Reply #270 on:** August 10, 2007, 05:29:35 AM »

Whooo hoooo. She looks a lot better with her pipes back on! Last night I put the rest of her back together. It went pretty smooth after I remembered that the rear sets are what bolt down the # 3 and # 2 pipes. I must have looked for an hour for the bolts to keep them up cursing myself for not keeping them in a labeled baby food jar like the UMPTEEN other ones I've gone through during reconstruction. So, pipes went back on and I took about 15 minutes to rest and look at my achievements to this point.

I started last night with the tune up as well. Started with setting the valve tappets. Ran out to Sears to get the 'deluxe' feeler gauge kit because mine set only went as low as .004 inch gauge. That went surprisingly smoothly once I learned the process. # 3 tappets appeared to be the ones needing the most correction.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I set point gaps as well. 2 & 3 points were a bit closer together than they should have been. Both 1 & 4 and 2 & 3 are at approximately .014 inch.

Adjusted the cam chain tensioner. That seemed to go too smoothly...

Finally I put the plugs back in and hooked up my compression tester. The fittings lack o-rings so I have to tighten them way down to get it to take a proper reading. Just ran a pretest test on #1 because it was getting late. Seemed to work well.

Cold compression pretest test results w/o oil on cylinder:

#1 115

Now, where do I squirt oil onto the cylinder to test the cylinder again? Through the spark plug hole? Just a little is all I need, correct?

The rest will have to come after this weekend as I'm taking a mini fishing trip. Lots of weighty large and small mouth. First trip of the year unfortunately.

neil young · « **Reply #271 on:** August 10, 2007, 02:28:12 PM »

about a tea to a table spoon full

TwoTired · « **Reply #272 on:** August 10, 2007, 02:57:32 PM »

You don't need much. Just enough to wet the cylinders. The camber is only about 15cc with the piston up. 1 tbsp = 14.79 cc is too much. Teaspoon (1 tsp = 4.93 cc) is okay. I just use one pump from my old oiler can into the spark plug hole, don't know what that is in volume. But, it is 40 Wt oil.

cheers,

neil young · « **Reply #273 on:** August 11, 2007, 12:25:54 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on August 10, 2007, 02:57:32 PM

You don't need much. Just enough to wet the cylinders. The camber is only about 15cc with the piston up. 1 tbsp = 14.79 cc is too much. Teaspoon (1 tsp = 4.93 cc) is okay. I just use one pump from my old oiler can into the spark plug hole, don't know what that is in volume. But, it is 40 Wt oil.

cheers,

thanks T T...i thought that more than a tbsp was to much.your the man

Tvag · « **Reply #274 on:** August 14, 2007, 05:38:26 AM »

Back from fishing. It was great aside from the lack of largemouth

. Lots of white pirch and pickrel made it a fair trip. The 1.7 lbs 15" Calico Bass was the highlight. Never caught one that large before.

I hope to get to the compression test tonight but I've got a fair amount of yard work to catch up on.

And an update on the z400g is that I'll be another week or so until I get it. The owner is in Vegas : ( I was hoping to have it ready to ride by the end of the week.

News:

Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K (Read 41679 times)